Whiteness descending while meditation

[cihan]

Hello all,

 

Recently I started experiencing a fluid whiteness coming over from the top of my head and covering my frontal lobes like an avalanche, which makes my vision go bright foggy white. I meditate with my eyes closed, it feels very physical and distracts my practice virtually blocking my mind's vision. It is blissful but kind of frightening.

 

Anybody has any comments or advice?

 

Thanks

 

Cihan

[Edward M]

As with any phenomenon experienced during meditation, stick to being mindful of the object of meditation, like the breath or the orbit etc...

 

The phenomenon is not meant to be focused on, it is just an occurrence, a by product of the meditation practice..

 

Let things be and just practice..

 

Peace

 

Ed

[effilang]

Well done. Keep meditating.

[konchog uma]

white fog or cloudy phenomena are a sign of progress, and it is said that it will go away, if you just let it pass.

 

from Yang Jwing Ming's Root of Chinese Qigong p 177

 

White Scenery in an Empty Room

sometimes when you enter a deep meditative state you will suddenly feel your physical body disappear and your chi mix with the surrounding chi. When this happens, it seems that the entire room is empty, and filled with a white cloud or fog. if you pay attention to this scenery, it will disappear immediately because your mind is not familiar with emptiness, and generates an image of familiar scenery to fill up this void.

if you find yourself experiencing white emptiness, just sense or feel it, do not put your attention on it.. This scenery will happen only when your mind is completely regulated into a highly concentrated and relaxed state. The taoist Wu Yi Tzi said... ..."if you desire to generate the white, you must first empty the room"

Edited November 10, 2011 by anamatva

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Not entirely sure if it's the same thing as described here, but this sort of tingling cascading energy feels like it nourishes the cells of the body. I think it is a very good thing and can be part of a sitting qi gong. Relax the area where it happens so it can spread out maybe. This is when I don't feel experimentation with psychedelics is always bad since strange phenomena is not so frightening nor distracting; however, they may use up a bit of "juice" that some of the benefits can bring.

 

Over all, these experiences tend to be more like landmarks.. worth exploring, but not the intended destination, although some who just want a groovy psychedelic experience seem to make them the overall goal. They won't enlighten you though they may be an early road sign that you're going in the right direction. "Don't mistake a glimpse of Reality for the Whole of Reality..." This is Fun-Da-Mental to real progress and success, though like any art we must work on it and work on it and work on it and..

 

It's always a work in progress.

[Sahaj Nath]

white fog or cloudy phenomena are a sign of progress, and it is said that it will go away, if you just let it pass.

 

from Yang Jwing Ming's Root of Chinese Qigong p 177

 

White Scenery in an Empty Room

sometimes when you enter a deep meditative state you will suddenly feel your physical body disappear and your chi mix with the surrounding chi. When this happens, it seems that the entire room is empty, and filled with a white cloud or fog. if you pay attention to this scenery, it will disappear immediately because your mind is not familiar with emptiness, and generates an image of familiar scenery to fill up this void.

if you find yourself experiencing white emptiness, just sense or feel it, do not put your attention on it.. This scenery will happen only when your mind is completely regulated into a highly concentrated and relaxed state. The taoist Wu Yi Tzi said... ..."if you desire to generate the white, you must first empty the room"

 

yeah, i don't think this is what cihan just described either.

 

 

Hello all,

 

Recently I started experiencing a fluid whiteness coming over from the top of my head and covering my frontal lobes like an avalanche, which makes my vision go bright foggy white. I meditate with my eyes closed, it feels very physical and distracts my practice virtually blocking my mind's vision. It is blissful but kind of frightening.

 

Anybody has any comments or advice?

 

Thanks

 

Cihan

 

what type of meditation are you engaging in? and why is it frightening? it seems really common on this board that so many people seek out esoteric practices, and the moment anything starts to happen they contract. not saying this is the case for you specifically, but it IS something that's all too common around here and it just doesn't make any sense to me. when people get into trouble with spiritual practices, it's almost ALWAYS due to their own self-contraction, and NOT the phenomenon that triggers it, which typically means they shouldn't be playing with those practices to begin with. high-level stuff is pretty easy to come by these days, but it's not for tourists. there are some occurrences that can't simply be turned off because you don't like it or it scares you.

 

 

again, this is just a general comment, not specifically directed at cihan.

 

 

cihan,

 

i've been guiding a few peeps through a "So Ham" shaktipat meditation, and what you described is a very common initial experience. with them i've told them to just smile and continue with the meditation, and if the arising begins to overwhelm or disrupt their practice, to relax, surrender, and dissolve into it with no expectation of outcome. relax into the mystery of it all; after all, it's part of the reason why we do what we do.

 

another common occurrence that often goes hand-in-hand with what you described is the experience of timelessness. without describing the quality of that experience, an hour or more can go by and feel like 5 or 10 minutes. but i think you might need to get past the fear that comes up for you before you can be awash in the timelessness. if the energy is intense enough it can throw you into the timeless whether you like it or not (and that can be scary for a lot of people), but typically that only happens when the use of substances are included. does any of this strike you as familiar?

 

please share what you can about what you do and where the fear comes from. but until then, i would simply stay the course and use those punctuated moments maybe as opportunities to face, surrender, and dissolve my fear. can you allow the energy of that fear emotion to flood through you and run its course WITHOUT contracting? this is best done with a teacher. you could be surprised at what a thin line it is between fear and bliss.

 

hope something in there was helpful.

[C T]

this is best done with a teacher.

 

you could be surprised at what a thin line it is between fear and bliss.

 

Yes and yes to above.

 

If you have some aversion to being guided by a teacher, one of the practical options available to you as a self-guided practitioner would be to loosen the intensity of the sessions you engage in - its quite ok to take breaks, sip some tea, apple juice, or warm water (is best) and then return to practice.

 

Whenever you feel the onset of some unfamiliar anxiety, or some unknown sensation arising, you are free to disengage immediately and temporarily switch off, just to create some space to enable whatever thats arising to dissipate. If you overextend, what normally happens is that you will be creating probable causes for the mind to begin fixating on things, and this is exactly what meditation ought not to be for.

 

Also, it may be good to try alternating between sitting, standing, walking, breathing, chanting, simply observing, reading texts and reflecting etc. Sometimes being overly concentrated on any one aspect would bring about various 'states' which may not necessarily be helpful since this tends to diminish one's creative flow.

 

Key point to remember is Patience. If you anticipate too many things, the odds will be that your practice will yield, at best, some temporary transformation, which means more work for you in the long haul.

 

All the best!

[Aaron]

About six months into my daily meditation this started happening to me and it occurred repeatedly for several weeks until one day instead of fog there was just light, everywhere all at once. I was able to return to the light after that, but at some point it seemed unnatural and I stopped trying to achieve it. About two decades later I decided to try and reach that point again to examine it and I had some profound insight into the nature of that light, which is also the stillness many refer to, but I made the mistake, as I often do, that somehow the stillness was a truth, which it wasn't.

 

My advice as someone who has meditated for many many years is about the same as everyone else who has spoken before in this thread, don't be afraid of it, just be mindful and it will pass, but also in meditating and realizing those things you hadn't before, never mistake your realization for the end. Within stillness there is no compassion, there is no emotion, but that doesn't mean that compassion is meaningless, only that within stillness there is peace and hence no suffering. It can be an addictive place to go for one who has suffered, but at some point I realized that achieving stillness was not the end of suffering, but rather it allows for an objective understanding of the nature of suffering, not only without but within.

 

I wont go too much more into it, except to say that you should be happy, you've reached an important stage in your practice, just don't let it be the final stage, keep going! There is so much more to experience.

 

Aaron

[Birch]

About six months into my daily meditation this started happening to me and it occurred repeatedly for several weeks until one day instead of fog there was just light, everywhere all at once. I was able to return to the light after that, but at some point it seemed unnatural and I stopped trying to achieve it. About two decades later I decided to try and reach that point again to examine it and I had some profound insight into the nature of that light, which is also the stillness many refer to, but I made the mistake, as I often do, that somehow the stillness was a truth, which it wasn't.

 

My advice as someone who has meditated for many many years is about the same as everyone else who has spoken before in this thread, don't be afraid of it, just be mindful and it will pass, but also in meditating and realizing those things you hadn't before, never mistake your realization for the end. Within stillness there is no compassion, there is no emotion, but that doesn't mean that compassion is meaningless, only that within stillness there is peace and hence no suffering. It can be an addictive place to go for one who has suffered, but at some point I realized that achieving stillness was not the end of suffering, but rather it allows for an objective understanding of the nature of suffering, not only without but within.

 

I wont go too much more into it, except to say that you should be happy, you've reached an important stage in your practice, just don't let it be the final stage, keep going! There is so much more to experience.

 

Aaron

 

I guess that's good advice Aaron. However, I wonder about the old 'just keep on keeping on' suggestion in the face of meditative 'phenomenon'. I don't doubt that people would like some kind of signposting (I appreciate it myself:-)) but IMO/IME it would be pretty more interesting (helpful, maybe, I dunno) if people could understand some of the 'stuff' beyond just 'keep on going'. It's not all mystic rocket science :-) In fact it might 'just' be science and telling people isn't IMO/IME going to change what happens that much. And if it does then I'd welcome some input about that too :-)

[Aaron]

I guess that's good advice Aaron. However, I wonder about the old 'just keep on keeping on' suggestion in the face of meditative 'phenomenon'. I don't doubt that people would like some kind of signposting (I appreciate it myself:-)) but IMO/IME it would be pretty more interesting (helpful, maybe, I dunno) if people could understand some of the 'stuff' beyond just 'keep on going'. It's not all mystic rocket science :-) In fact it might 'just' be science and telling people isn't IMO/IME going to change what happens that much. And if it does then I'd welcome some input about that too :-)

 

Well if it helps, my personal understanding of the "fog experience" is that it is the first step to realizing the nature of self beyond the physical observations one makes in the physical world. It is stepping beyond memory and experiencing something deeper about one's self. It is a beginning of a deeper connection to the invisible phenomena in the world, by using more than the senses of the body, so it isn't necessarily something to be afraid of, especially if it only happens while you are meditating.

 

Aaron

Edited November 11, 2011 by Twinner

[Birch]

Well if it helps, my personal understanding of the "fog experience" is that it is the first step to realizing the nature of self beyond the physical observations one makes in the physical world. It is stepping beyond memory and experiencing something deeper about one's self. It is a beginning of a deeper connection to the invisible phenomena in the world, by using more than the senses of the body, so it isn't necessarily something to be afraid of, especially if it only happens while you are meditating.

 

Aaron

That's all well and good but I wasn't referring to any requirement for "reassurance".

I guess then I'd have to go back to some of the other cartographers such as Daniel I or Agora 11 or whatever.

[Aaron]

That's all well and good but I wasn't referring to any requirement for "reassurance".

I guess then I'd have to go back to some of the other cartographers such as Daniel I or Agora 11 or whatever.

 

It's the INFP in me, I was responding to what I feel in your post, rather than what I logically perceive. My logical response would be, sometimes people need reassurances that what they are experiencing is normal, especially if they're frightened or feeling disorientated by them. By explaining that they are not alone in their experience, then they can begin to observe that experience without having to worry about it's inherent wrongness or rightness. My response was more in tune with what I felt Cihan was writing about, rather than what he was actually saying. I think that may be why people believe I'm not reading their posts and simply replying willy nilly. Oftentimes I'll reply to topics that have nothing to do with the topic itself, because there is a part of me that feels that might be what the poster actually needed to hear in response to the post.

 

I never said I was normal.

 

Aaron

[cihan]

To clarify a little,

 

I came across this physical entity called "Tao Bums" a year ago as my real helping teacher clarifying my way through all you good people's opinions and experiences. No other physical teacher that I noticed manifested through my 49 years in this reality, (I apologize for not crediting all the other countless & nameless entities who certainly helped me up to now for the record )

 

Anyways, a year ago I acquired Sifu Terry Dunn's Flying Phoenix CK series and started practicing them until now, and added another set from Sifu Chris Matsuo's Quan Yin Magnetic CK 6 moths ago,and been doing them both daily, steadily but not excessively. I have meditation experience for about 20 years, never used any drugs. and have a decent life allowing cultivation.

 

I can cope with my pseudo-projected nightmare creations as well as some outside entities both in dream and physical realm, a golden light coming out of my hearth takes care of those, washing them out or blasting them by strong positive emotions triggered, whatever this means .

 

This white fog stuff feels very PHYSICAL like I am about to literally die, It also comes and spreads if I allow it when I lie down.

 

I guess it is my fear of death that I have to confront, so I asked your opinions before I put my feet in it.

 

I understand from your advice that I am at a road sign, and will continue my practice as well as keeping an eye on this stuff. I guess I am not in any serious situation so far.

 

 

 

 

Thank You All for your kind considerations,

 

 

Cihan

[deci belle]

[Birch]

Who are you talking to DB?

[Aaron]

[Birch]

It's a good topic Aaron. I had DB pegged as a Bhuddist/Daoist hybrid but he/she has made some interesting points in other posts that I see as a bit different from the "trad" Bhuddist evangelist view. Although his/her last post felt a bit "hysterical/scary"(felt-sense) to me (and yours felt a bit passive-aggressive, sorry!!)

 

And no, just because i feel it doesn't mean it's my problem.

[suninmyeyes]

I dont believe either that a preson can become detached completley at least not for a very long time . This means also that it is simply imposiblle(IMO) to be egoless and exist as a human being.

Detachment is very important , but it has to come from deep knowing in the form of 'letting go', as opposed to being forced . Becouse if there isnt any letting go then a person spins in the same place over and over again , and yes this is how illness can occur.

 

deci belle,

Strange feeling of your post.

What prompted you to say that cihan may kill himself? Becouse he said he feels as if he is dying?

I agree what Hundun said about the thin line between fear and bliss.

[Aaron]

It's a good topic Aaron. I had DB pegged as a Bhuddist/Daoist hybrid but he/she has made some interesting points in other posts that I see as a bit different from the "trad" Bhuddist evangelist view. Although his/her last post felt a bit "hysterical/scary"(felt-sense) to me (and yours felt a bit passive-aggressive, sorry!!)

 

And no, just because i feel it doesn't mean it's my problem.

 

I'm probably guilty as charged. I was being a bit sarcastic there. I rarely have big issues with DB, but this post was way out there and I felt the need to add some levity to the situation.

 

Aaron

[doc benway]

Hello all,

 

Recently I started experiencing a fluid whiteness coming over from the top of my head and covering my frontal lobes like an avalanche, which makes my vision go bright foggy white. I meditate with my eyes closed, it feels very physical and distracts my practice virtually blocking my mind's vision. It is blissful but kind of frightening.

 

Anybody has any comments or advice?

 

Thanks

 

Cihan

It is nothing to focus on and the fear and bliss are natural and will pass, and return, and so on....

Consider opening your eyes slightly.

It can help avoid mental distractions like the one you describe, which can be more distracting than "real" visual stimuli.

Some Daoist traditions look slightly downward and inward, to the nose for example, with a soft focus and the lids half closed.

It feels forced for a while (like a mudra or propr tongue position) but eventually happens "of itself."