Poll on Moderation Issue

[Apech]

Dear Fellow Taobums,

 

We (the mod team) have received a number of reports about the threads started by Immortal4life on various subjects but usually relating to alternative pre-history or intelligent design. The objections vary but usually concern the subject matter, which some think is not legit for this forum, the length of the threads and the number of them.

 

For some time we have been trying to resolve this by finding a suitable home for them on here - the last attempt being the articles section. But this seems to have caused some concern in itself.

 

So we have decided to ask for views from the TaoBumariat as to where you would like to see them posted. It would be a great help if you could vote on the poll and give us an idea as to what would suit most people.

 

Leave comments on here also if you wish ... but please be respectful.

 

Thanks.

 

Apech for Mod Team

[Elliot]

I haven't been here long enough to say, but it seems to me that you think his posts are an issue.

Perhaps if you speak with Immortal4life you could decide on something.

[Immortal4life]

Dear Fellow Taobums,

 

We (the mod team) have received a number of reports about the threads started by Immortal4life on various subjects but usually relating to alternative pre-history or intelligent design.

 

When was the last time there was a topic about Intelligent Design?

 

The Intelligent Design, while obviously a legitimate spiritual issue, came along, was discussed a good amount of time, and is still around if someone wants to continue discussing it. However, it naturally went through all it's relevant points, and so will anything else that is discussed. There is no imperetive need to worry or discuss. Various issues relevant to spirituality will naturally run their respective courses.

 

As you can see in my most recent threads here, I am already moving beyond your limited ideas about me and what "issues" I will be posting about. I think it is very clear there is no better place for them, than where I chose to post them, in General Discussion-

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/21277-marbleheads-challenge/

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/21286-the-supernaturals/

Edited November 11, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

Edited November 11, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Birch]

Tough one!

IM4L isn't what I'd call a "creationist". Might not have the "facts" on whatever he or she is posting but I kind of like it as a respite from othodoxy of any kind. It would be funner if the sources weren't all the same (e.g. We seem to be having a run on Hancock right now:-)) and maybe if it attracted other people interested in this stuff that could debunk the bogus, that would be cool. Maybe there are forums for that elsewhere but I figure if IM4L is posting here then he/she would like some feedback. I suppose if not, then that could be called "evangelizing" and I don't know what TTB's want on that side of things. Personally, I don't dig it, but that's just me:-)

 

Edit: I don't dig evangelizing

Edited November 11, 2011 by -K-

[Immortal4life]

I remember earlier in the year there were a group of individuals insisting I was a fundamnetalist christian and creationist, come to convert all the misguided Pagan Taoists. In the end things were not how they thought and there was never any real probalem.

 

and maybe if it attracted other people interested in this stuff that could debunk the bogus, that would be cool.

 

This is the heart of the issue. I have done just this for you, I have eliminated the bogus and provided evidence for various things in the best context I can.

 

The problem, is that some people cannot handle it when it comes to light that their "debunking" attempts have proven inadequate. So, what they do is run to the moderators. I can tell you that in any debate, no matter how fierce, or whatever tactices were used against me, I always relied only on myself and never ran to a moderator.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Protector]

Maaaaaaaaaaan I wish mods made threads about me... with something nice to say in them

[Birch]

Maaaaaaaaaaan I wish mods made threads about me... with something nice to say in them

I could make a poll about how weird you are if you want? But it might be relegated to off-topic :-)

[Protector]

You're too kind :lol:

[Encephalon]

I remember though earlier in the year there were a group of individuals insisting I was a fundamnetalist christian and creationist, come to convert all the misguided Pagan Taoists. In the end things were not how they thought and there was never any real probalem.

 

 

 

This is the heart of the issue. I have done just this for you, I have eliminated the bogus and provided evidence for various things in the best context I can.

 

The problem, is that some people cannot handle it when it comes to light that their "debunking" attempts have proven inadequate. So, what they do is run to the moderators. I can tell you that in any debate, no matter how fierce, or whatever tactices were used against me, I always relied only on myself and never ran to a moderator.

 

Your only proven strategy was ignoring the legitimate questions posed to you long after people stopped asking. You had every opportunity to demystify your agenda and bring all the speculation, which I suspect you deeply enjoyed, to an end. The idea that scientifically illiterate individuals can single-handedly turn 300 years of scientific progress upside down seems pretty ludicrous, but I have to give you credit for trying.

 

But I have to say, your repeated insistence that we needed your pseudo-scientific explanations of the universe in order to have an authentic spiritual education was even more priceless. Again, your persistence is admirable, no matter how misallocated.

[zanshin]

It's general discussable information.

[de_paradise]

Someone should point out that this segregation subforum policy on TB's is leaving much to be desired in terms of active discussion.

[Aaron]

I'm sort of disillusioned with The Tao Bums recent descent into segregation. I long for the days of the old General Discussion, when everything could be found here, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. I don't visit the other sections, because I don't want to be hem hawed into discussing something from one point of view. I think a lot of people do the same. Oh well, perhaps that's just me.

 

I really see this as another way to censor what's in the general discussions area to appease people who don't want to listen to it. First we created the Taoist Discussion section so Taoists didn't have to deal with Buddhists, then we created a Buddhist section so Buddhists wouldn't have to deal with Taoists. The thing that I find upsetting about both sections is that there is no freedom of expression, you can only talk about approved topics, an example being the fellow who responded to a topic in the Buddhist forum with a Vendanta based understanding being told that his view wasn't appropriate for that forum/thread and that he needed to go to the Vendanta section.

 

I'm just waiting for a Christian, Islam, and Jewish section, then no one will have to read anything that they don't want to. Essentially the Tao Bums is becoming Orwellian to me, which is kind of disheartening. Maybe we should all read Fahrenheit 451 again?

 

Aaron

Edited November 11, 2011 by Twinner

[Apech]

I'm sort of disillusioned with The Tao Bums recent descent into segregation. I long for the days of the old General Discussion, when everything could be found here, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. I don't visit the other sections, because I don't want to be hem hawed into discussing something from one point of view. I think a lot of people do the same. Oh well, perhaps that's just me.

 

I really see this as another way to censor what's in the general discussions area to appease people who don't want to listen to it. First we created the Taoist Discussion section so Taoists didn't have to deal with Buddhists, then we created a Buddhist section so Buddhists wouldn't have to deal with Taoists. The thing that I find upsetting about both sections is that there is no freedom of expression, you can only talk about approved topics, an example being the fellow who responded to a topic in the Buddhist forum with a Vendanta based understanding being told that his view wasn't appropriate for that forum/thread and that he needed to go to the Vendanta section.

 

I'm just waiting for a Christian, Islam, and Jewish section, then no one will have to read anything that they don't want to. Essentially the Tao Bums is becoming Orwellian to me, which is kind of disheartening. Maybe we should all read Fahrenheit 451 again?

 

Aaron

 

? the first recently created sub was for the TTC - you were one of the ones who pressed for it and were a moderator. Don't you think you are applying a double standard here?

 

However I agree with your overall point and don't want to suppress debate. In fact the opposite - I want a place for I4L's stuff where everyone is ok with it and we stop getting reports objecting to it. I'm not trying to stop the posts at all.

 

More votes please ...

[Aaron]

? the first recently created sub was for the TTC - you were one of the ones who pressed for it and were a moderator. Don't you think you are applying a double standard here?

 

However I agree with your overall point and don't want to suppress debate. In fact the opposite - I want a place for I4L's stuff where everyone is ok with it and we stop getting reports objecting to it. I'm not trying to stop the posts at all.

 

More votes please ...

 

 

Hello Apech,

 

I'm aware of that, but my reason for starting the TTC subforum was to allow us to have a place to discuss the TTC without having the conversations get lost in the jumble of other discussions that occurred, which is often what happened. Also it was an attempt to set up a place where we could discuss the literary works in an academic fashion, but even then there was no discouragement from comparing it with other religions or experiences, if one thought it alluded to that. I don't see this occurring in the new discussion areas, in fact I think it's the exact opposite. One is discouraged from making any references to experiences being similar or religions other than the ones posted. This is primarily the reason why I discontinued visiting them. I think every place grows, but I don't necessarily believe that placing people in safe little homes to talk about only those things they want to talk about is necessarily for the best. Anyways, it's just my 2 cents.

 

Don't move his posts, that's my suggestion.

 

Aaron

Edited November 11, 2011 by Twinner

[Jetsun]

I'm sort of disillusioned with The Tao Bums recent descent into segregation. I long for the days of the old General Discussion, when everything could be found here, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. I don't visit the other sections, because I don't want to be hem hawed into discussing something from one point of view. I think a lot of people do the same. Oh well, perhaps that's just me.

 

I really see this as another way to censor what's in the general discussions area to appease people who don't want to listen to it. First we created the Taoist Discussion section so Taoists didn't have to deal with Buddhists, then we created a Buddhist section so Buddhists wouldn't have to deal with Taoists. The thing that I find upsetting about both sections is that there is no freedom of expression, you can only talk about approved topics, an example being the fellow who responded to a topic in the Buddhist forum with a Vendanta based understanding being told that his view wasn't appropriate for that forum/thread and that he needed to go to the Vendanta section.

 

I'm just waiting for a Christian, Islam, and Jewish section, then no one will have to read anything that they don't want to. Essentially the Tao Bums is becoming Orwellian to me, which is kind of disheartening. Maybe we should all read Fahrenheit 451 again?

 

Aaron

 

It seems like creating the Buddhist section has scared off all the Buddhists, maybe they were just here to tell the Taoists how wrong they were about stuff or maybe they just left naturally with time but there doesn't seem to be much Buddhist commentary any more about things which is a shame, although many people complained about it before so maybe it is only me who misses it

 

I only had an issue with Immortal4lifes creationist agenda which seemed to be based on some sort of misguided mission to correct the world with bad agenda based science, the other threads are quite interesting, as long as he doesn't bring all the toxic PUA stuff in here.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Jetsun

[三江源]

Someone should point out that this segregation subforum policy on TB's is leaving much to be desired in terms of active discussion.

 

Good point.

[gendao]

Just based upon the forum descriptions:

 

General Discussion

Eclectic discussion across a wide range of spiritual thought and practice. As long as you are up for a good time and remain respectful, you're welcome to discuss your path.

 

Off Topic

Found something that interests you? The 'bums are a loose knit group with varied but similar interests, so feel free to discuss it here.

 

 

I would say that his ID threads actually belong in General Discussion, if anything (since they could be considered a form of "non-Taoist" yet somewhat "spiritual" thought). Whereas threads on pre-history or PUA might belong more in Off Topic.

 

Of course, under that same criteria, a LOT of threads in General Discussion "should" be moved to Off Topic - like all the political, scientific and various other "non-spiritual" threads, etc. For example:

"Collapse" the movie, now available on Netflix Instantwatch

Jung Personality Test

Is tolerance a modern invention?

Global Revolution

Solving the world's overpopulation problems?

I'm thinking of getting my MS in Industrial and Organizational Psychology!

To the spirit of Steve Jobs

Denisovans Mated With Humans, Study Says.

The Future of Nano-Electric Power Generation

Etc, etc

 

I also don't see why it would even matter if he WAS a Christian Creationist Fundy? General Discussion seems basically for any eclectic, "non-Taoist, spiritual" thought that doesn't belong in "Taoist Discussion," no?

[Apech]

.... <snip>

 

I also don't see why it would even matter if he WAS a Christian Creationist Fundy? General Discussion seems basically for any eclectic, "non-Taoist, spiritual" thought that doesn't belong in "Taoist Discussion," no?

 

Yes, basically ... I like it that General Discussion is as broad as possible ... for instance I put some science articles there if I think they have some kind of spiritual aspect ...

 

Like I tried to say above ... people report stuff and we are just trying to see what people want ... Christian mysticism would be def 'in' ... but if (for the sake of an example) we got bombarded with fundamentalist propaganda then I think that would be 'out'.

 

>> More general point ... if subs are stifling debate ... then don't use them ... if you want to discuss the subtleties of Chuang Tzu in a peaceful setting go to the sub ... if you want to question the validity of things (or whatever) then go to general ...this way we all get what we want yes/no?????

[michael245]

I think his threads are fine,what makes them so fun is that we all get to criticise them and disprove them.Other alien lovers will take one good look at the responses to the threads and learn something and may change their kooky beliefs as a result.

[konchog uma]

+1 Aaron for the Bradbury recommendation

 

its a message forum, of course some people aren't going to like some of the stuff that some people post. Hell, I don't like some of the stuff I4L posts and i tell him so! But i don't think moving his posts is really a solution to this um non-problem. What the hell happened to the right to express ones opinions and interests? I mean i disagree with I4L, on some level, on just about every issue he brings to the table, but i think he has a right to say it. If people think he is posting incendiary things just to not listen to their opinions but up his own, don't read his posts. I'm that way with tulku. For some reason he bothers me. I only read his posts if i know i'm ready to be bothered. But i believe everyone has a right to use message forums to the same capacity, that is, freely as long as they follow the rules. No disrespect but if i was a mod and someone said to me "I4L posts some stupid shit and im sick of reading it" i would say "then put him on ignore". I wouldn't pander to people's sensitivities cause that just leads to trying to please everyone, which we all know doesn't work.

 

wow i didn't know i cared that much, i was just gonna +1 Aaron hahahaha

[三江源]

It seems like creating the Buddhist section has scared off all the Buddhists, maybe they were just here to tell the Taoists how wrong they were about stuff or maybe they just left naturally with time but there doesn't seem to be much Buddhist commentary any more about things which is a shame, although many people complained about it before so maybe it is only me who misses it

 

I only had an issue with Immortal4lifes creationist agenda which seemed to be based on some sort of misguided mission to correct the world with bad agenda based science, the other threads are quite interesting, as long as he doesn't bring all the toxic PUA stuff in here.

 

Agree with everything Jetsun said, emphasising the wish not not have toxic strategies presented here, for creating false selves and manipulating women, as if they had /+?- all to do with anything remotely taoist.

[JustARandomPanda]

To be honest I *wish* Off Topic was a hot-bed of Taobum posting activity. I've long wondered how to make it more interesting to our community here but I'm at a loss about that. Really what I think it needs is a "seedbed" dedicated group willing to discuss things with each other there that would generate a lot of lurking activity. As more people lurked more will be lured into eventually participating.

 

In fact...I would LOVE for I4L's posts to voluntarily go there as they just might be part of what could help spark sustained activity in that forum. Same thing for Encephalon or Ralis or Vortex or any other number of posters here whose non-spiritual topics I always find thoughtful, fascinating and deserving imo of serious debate and consideration.

 

I'd make more posts in Off-Topic myself if I thought other people would give a damn and start responding there. Instead you pretty much hear crickets chirping. It doesn't have to be that way. I think Off-Topic has the potential to be a fun forum if enough "seedbed" posters gathered together and started posting there with dedication.

 

And as for the segregation issue I honestly haven't seen it effecting the General forum that much. There are still plenty of Taoist topics in General. There's plenty of Qi Gong, Nei Gong, Internal Alchemy, etc in General. The good thing about dedicated forums and the General forum is that it gives people the opportunity to choose which forum they wish to participate in.

 

The other reason for the special-interest forums is that the mod team was getting a LOT of complaints and I do mean a LOT. You guys mourning the death of the "General Discussion Only" option are a very vocal minority.

[Immortal4life]

Your only proven strategy was ignoring the legitimate questions posed to you long after people stopped asking. You had every opportunity to demystify your agenda and bring all the speculation, which I suspect you deeply enjoyed, to an end. The idea that scientifically illiterate individuals can single-handedly turn 300 years of scientific progress upside down seems pretty ludicrous, but I have to give you credit for trying.

 

What agenda? You just keep begging the question.

 

You want me to state my "agenda".

 

I am interested in all aspects of, and all issues relating to spirituality, religion, life after death, meta-physics, martial arts, human origins, science, life, nature, cosmology, astrology, consciousness, mental potential, higher planes of existence, biology, archaeology, and anthropology.

 

Many of the greatest thinkers in history, who turned things upside and shattered status quos, were not those who clung to their social programming or their "education". Many of the biggest thinkers were from outside the orthodox academic instititions of their day.

 

But I have to say, your repeated insistence that we needed your pseudo-scientific explanations of the universe in order to have an authentic spiritual education was even more priceless. Again, your persistence is admirable, no matter how misallocated.

 

I have explained many times in the past why it is so that if materialism or atheism were correct, meaning, sychronicity, and life after death could not exist.

[Aaron]

The other reason for the special-interest forums is that the mod team was getting a LOT of complaints and I do mean a LOT. You guys mourning the death of the "General Discussion Only" option are a very vocal minority.

 

How do you know we're just a vocal minority? I look at the number of votes that are against moving I4L's threads to a different section as possible evidence, we're not such a minority, but rather more like a half and half split. In the end the group with the most influence will win out in the end. This isn't a democracy anyways, it's a private site, so whatever the mods decide will be the end decision. I'm just making a point that I see a real degradation in the quality of discussions since this shift and most of it has to do with the subtle version of censorship that's going on. And again, the bias against other philosophies in the special sections is one of the reasons I don't participate.

 

Aaron