Chuang Tzu Chapter 4, Section B

[Marblehead]

Everything's ok I think what youbare trying to say is "how can I believe in something that isn't there to believe in?" ...please correct me if I'm wrong...

No, I don't want to correct you even if you think you might be wrong.

[Marblehead]

Further into the derail, as I've spoken about before, there is neuroscientific research to suggest that this is an illusion and that such decisions are already made before we are consciously aware of them.

 

So if the brain has gone somewhere we don't want it to go, and we snap back round to where we do want it to go, perhaps this move was inevitable anyway. Hmmmm....

That makes it sound like my entire life is predetermined and I have no free will.

 

You will get nothing but an argument from me in this regard.

[Rara]

No, I don't want to correct you even if you think you might be wrong.

No, I meant...is that what you meant? Lol

[Rara]

That makes it sound like my entire life is predetermined and I have no free will.

 

You will get nothing but an argument from me in this regard.

That indeed is the argument!

 

I don't wanna believe it. But it could be true.

[Marblehead]

No, I meant...is that what you meant? Lol

I did good at putting you on the defense though, didn't I?  Hehehe.

 

Yes, you did get it correct:  "how can I (you) believe in something that isn't there to believe in?"

[Marblehead]

That indeed is the argument!

 

I don't wanna believe it. But it could be true.

And it could be true that there really is an Easter Bunny; it's just that so few people have actually seen the real one.

[dust]

He swore me to secrecy

 

Oops. Never mind.

Edited May 19, 2015 by dustybeijing

[Geof Nanto]

He swore me to secrecy

 

Oops. Never mind.

 

Made me laugh, but even in jest I don't entirely condone this mocking of the unknown by affiliation with known fantasy. We've lost Arrheton ( άρρητον)– Not to be spoken. Innermost ineffable experience; any attempt at description would be an act of desecration.

 

Here's an example of inner experience recounted by Nietzsche. He claims that during one of his lakeside walks in Sils-Maria in Switzerland, in July 1881, he experienced a vision concerning Zarathustra and the nature of inspiration. He describes the experience as follows in his posthumously-published autobiographical Ecce Homo ....

 

“Zarathustra himself, as a type… he stole upon me… Has anyone at the end of the nineteenth century a clear idea of what poets of strong eras called inspiration? If not, I will describe it. If we had the slightest residue of superstition remaining in ourselves, we would scarcely be capable of rejecting outright the thought of being no more than a mere incarnation, a mere mouthpiece, a mere medium of overpowering forces. The concept of revelation in the sense that suddenly, with indescribable certainty and subtlety, something becomes visible and audible, something that shakes us to the core and knocks us over… All of this is involuntary unto the extreme but as in a storm of a feeling of freedom, absoluteness, power, divinity… This is my experience of inspiration; I have no doubt that we would have to go back thousands of years to find anyone who could say to me ‘it is mine too’.”

[dust]

Not my intent to mock, I promise. Just a little silliness.

 

 

 

Arrheton is a lovely word.

 

In my view, there is/are "some thing/s" that cannot be spoken of. But I don't know how much further one can go with that thought.

 

I'm going to keep trying to find a word that I prefer to 'sacred'.

[Stosh]

I think the idea being challenged,, was that fantasy should be believed ,because it had to have some solid basis to exist. The easter bunny doesnt have factual basis , so its a good example depicting the flaw. To consider every irrational idea as equally plausible, to good solid, well founded ideas,,would be an unhelpul error.

Being good naturedly funny, trumps almost anything. Even awe and hellfire.

If iturned out I was wrong about heaven existing, I think it would be great if its funny.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Here's an example of inner experience recounted by Nietzsche.

Yes, but the inspiration Nietzsche is talking about here is a totally different thing from believing something just because someone else told you it is true but yet there is no logical reason nor no evidence for believing in any such thing.

 

I believe in my inspiration.  I do not believe in the Easter Bunny.

[Rara]

And it could be true that there really is an Easter Bunny; it's just that so few people have actually seen the real one.

Haha...

 

Well, I think there are more reliable resources to support lack if free will than there is to support the existence of the Easter bunny.

[Rara]

Anyway, conclusion for myself...

 

I should give Confucius a chance.

[Marblehead]

Anyway, conclusion for myself...

 

I should give Confucius a chance.

Yes, do that.  But you need to hurry because he is, after all, headed down the river toward the waterfall.

[Geof Nanto]

I believe in my inspiration.  I do not believe in the Easter Bunny.

 

The Easter Bunny as you - and contemporary society in general - conceive it is a good example of a ritual that's lost it roots in lived cultural experience and become hollow; empty of meaning, merely a commercial sales gimmick.

 

There's an excellent overview of the origins of the tradition and its complex symbolism at  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Bunny

[Marblehead]

I was raised Lutheran so it was a part of my childhood.  My mother was a good Lutheran and tried her best to raise us kids in the tradition.  And I did enjoy Easter when I was a kid.

 

To be raised according to good traditional values is a good thing, really.  It gives us a base from which to make decisions when we are young and not yet capable of making rational and logical decisions on our own.  Momma said " (whatever) " and that was good enough reason for doing or not doing whatever.

 

But we don't get to remain a child forever.  We need to grow up and take responsibility for our action.  Can't be blaming stuff on the Easter Bunny.