Taomeow Posted November 21, 2011 Good questions, realfastcat! Thanks everyone for the differing views. It gives me much to chew on and digest. I suppose some Taijiquan teachers may teach it more externally/martially ? "Martially" does not mean "externally." Taiji is an internal martial art, every word key word. Some teachers use it externally, whether martially or not, this is how it is taught to beginners even by a good teacher. But then a good teacher proceeds to teach it internally AND martially. If you separate the two, you get neither. "Martially" starts with ways to combat your own internal enemies -- habitual poor alignments and the resulting impaired flow of qi, low or erratic energy, unhealthy responses to stress (internal first and foremost, then external), and so on. The skill is hard to acquire if you go "internal" right away, you have to actually "externalize" the opponent to better get it -- hence the unbreakable unity of martial-internal aspects of real taiji taught by real teachers. If we use Taijiquan as a moving meditation without considering the martial potentials, does it become a Medical Qigong? No. It becomes a nice moving relaxation routine. Useful, enjoyable, but not profound. does it become a Spirtual Qigong? Again, the assumption that anything "spiritual" is possible if you don't "fight" is based on wishful thinking, on the belief that you have no "internal adversaries." If you go for any which routine with this assumption, which is a defensive illusion, you gain defensive illusory spirituality. Alas, all too common. My initial idea about Taijiquan now is that it can be used for various purposes. Absolutely. It's just that you don't want to use an electronic microscope for a mattress, or a pressure cooker for a bicycle. It's more like your own life -- it can be used "for various purposes" but you wouldn't use it as "infancy" when you're 30 or as "menstruation" when you're male. You determine the purposes to use taijiquan for based on what it really is. It is an internal martial art. Take it from there and use it for any purpose an internal martial art can be used for. The sky's the limit, long as you use it as what it is, and don't use it as what it isn't. The rest for someone else or maybe later, gotta run... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted November 21, 2011 My qigong/taiji teacher teaches some of the taiji movements as just qigong, like silk reeling to chen style for example, but you can do that with any taiji movement. Well, that last part is extrapolation, i am eager to hear if anyone disagrees with it... I agree with you, Taiji is about the internal approach, the external postures can be anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted November 21, 2011 So, if I have understood ? Medical Qigong predates Taoist Qigong? How can we know if that is in fact true? So when did the Taoist school begin? Taoist Qigong is medical Qigong but it is at a much higher level of practice. Just keep in mind that Qigong is Qigong. It was only classified by the attained level of each individual. Indeed, medical Qigong is a high level of Qigong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Thanks everyone for the differing views. It gives me much to chew on and digest. I suppose some Taijiquan teachers may teach it more externally/martially ? If we use Taijiquan as a moving meditation without considering the martial potentials, does it become a Medical Qigong? does it become a Spirtual Qigong? My teacher tells us that there are 3 levels of practice, Physical, Mental and Spiritual. When we work with the physical levels we are adjusting alignments, postures, getting the sequence of the forms right. This works on external aspects of health, such as posture, balance (and issues related to that). When we go to mental level practice, we have become aware of the qi flow in the body and use the mind to guide the qi (dissolve blockages, circulate the qi both with small and large circulations, moving the qi to areas deficient, draining from areas with excess). At the spiritual level, we are no longer guiding the Qi but flowing with the Qi (so where it moves, we move, we go from form to formless to form again). Just doing a 24-form or a n-form Taiji Quan practice will get you some benefits, but to get deeper benefits you need to learn from someone who teaches the real deal. It takes years of practice and dedication (and love for the art). My initial idea about Taijiquan now is that it can be used for various purposes. Theory may be useful but it still takes the Bio-Mechanics practice (doing the forms many years) before a proper understanding is achieved? A few players may benefit from understanding the theory, in that they know what they are trying to achieve? Are these fair question? Bio-mechanics is the tip of the iceberg. It lets you balance properly and relax in the right places. Once this is done, the Qi will flow smoothly and that's where the main practice begins, imho. It doesn't take too long to get the bio-mechanics right...it takes a long time to get the mental aspect right. We encounter subconscious "demons" that we need to work with...and resolve. Energetic blockages that manifest as physical discomfort, destructive repetitive behaviours, etc. The Theory is important and it is meant to be learnt as we go along so we can corroborate that what we are practicing actually works. As practice deepens, intuition will start opening up...and things start becoming clear on their own (about every aspect of life). The key is to not force anything...to be the Watercourse way...let nature take its course...we follow along. It is absurd that people claim that Taiji Quan is not Qi Gong. In fact Taiji Quan IS Nei Gong. It has everything in its fold that allows for internal alchemy naturally. We just have to find the right teacher to show us how. As far as the martial aspect goes...it is natural but a limited aspect of Taiji Quan -- consider it to be the middle-school level stuff. As the student grows and goes to high-school, they learn healing. As the go to University they start practicing internal alchemy... Look at this book to get a glimpse of how "advanced taiji quan practice" looks/feels like -- http://books.google.com/books?id=9CDSu89LQXMC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false Edited November 23, 2011 by dwai 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted November 23, 2011 One thing to keep in mind is dont try to "get better" or "master it quickly". To some it might seem like an absurd repetition to bring that up, but it is easily missed, forgotten, or ignored. The best results come from a more, or less, casual approach. Dedicated as a hardcore gamer, but as casual as much too. It is greatly beneficial, but it cannot be treated like work, or that's all it becomes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted December 5, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnNLjadk3xc&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKG_wZkzZgo&feature=related just a reminder ,do not mess with zhang sanfeng Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
