Chuang Tzu Chapter 4, Section E

[Marblehead]

Section E

 

A (master) mechanic, called Shi, on his way to Qi, came to Qu-yuan, where he saw an oak-tree, which was used as the altar for the spirits of the land. It was so large that an ox standing behind it could not be seen. It measured a hundred spans round, and rose up eighty cubits on the hill before it threw out any branches, after which there were ten or so, from each of which a boat could be hollowed out. People came to see it in crowds as in a market place, but the mechanic did not look round at it, but held on his way without stopping. One of his workmen, however, looked long and admiringly at it, and then ran on to his master, and said to him, 'Since I followed you with my axe and bill, I have never seen such a beautiful mass of timber as this. Why would you, Sir, not look round at it, but went on without stopping?' 'Have done,' said Mr. Shi, 'and do not speak about it. It is quite useless. A boat made from its wood would sink; a coffin or shell would quickly rot; an article of furniture would soon go to pieces; a door would be covered with the exuding sap; a pillar would be riddled by insects; the material of it is good for nothing, and hence it is that it has attained to so great an age.'

 

When Mr. Shi was returning, the altar-oak appeared to him in a dream, and said, 'What other tree will you compare with me? Will you compare me to one of your ornamental trees? There are hawthorns, pear-trees, orange-trees, pummelo-trees, gourds and other low fruit-bearing plants. When their fruits are ripe, they are knocked down from them, and thrown among the dirt. The large branches are broken, and the smaller are torn away. So it is that their productive ability makes their lives bitter to them; they do not complete their natural term of existence, but come to a premature end in the middle of their time, bringing on themselves the destructive treatment which they ordinarily receive. It is so with all things. I have sought to discover how it was that I was so useless; I had long done so, till (the effort) nearly caused my death; and now I have learned it - it has been of the greatest use to me. Suppose that I had possessed useful properties, should I have become of the great size that I am? And moreover you and I are both things - how should one thing thus pass its judgment on another? how is it that you a useless man know all this about me a useless tree?' When Mr. Shih awoke, he kept thinking about his dream, but the workman said, 'Being so taken with its uselessness, how is it that it yet acts here as the altar for the spirits of the land?' 'Be still,' was the master's reply, 'and do not say a word. It simply happened to grow here; and thus those who do not know it do not speak ill of it as an evil thing. If it were not used as the altar, would it be in danger of being cut down? Moreover, the reason of its being preserved is different from that of the preservation of things generally; is not your explaining it from the sentiment which you have expressed wide of the mark?'

[Marblehead]

Noone wants to talk about the value of being useless?

[konchog uma]

Noone wants to talk about the value of being useless?

 

oh i missed that when you posted it.

 

i love that story, another one that i took to heart as a youth.

 

its late, i'll post the Mair tomorrow! gnite

[Marblehead]

i love that story, another one that i took to heart as a youth.

 

Yeah, the value of the story is deep. But if one thinks on it a little one will see the truth in it.

[ChiDragon]

【譯文】

匠人石去齊國，來到曲轅這個地方，看見一棵被世人當作神社的櫟樹。這棵櫟樹樹冠大到可以遮蔽數千頭牛，用繩子繞著量一量樹幹，足有頭十丈粗，樹梢高臨山巔，離地面八十尺處方才分枝，用它來造船可造十餘艘。觀賞的人群像趕集似地湧來湧去，而這位匠人連瞧也不瞧一眼，不停步地往前走。他的徒弟站在樹旁看了個夠，跑著趕上了匠人石，說：「自我拿起刀斧跟隨先生，從不曾見過這樣壯美的樹木。可是先生卻不肯看一眼，不住腳地往前走，為什麼呢？」匠人石回答說：「算了，不要再說它了！這是一棵什麼用處也沒有的樹，用它做成船定會沉沒，用它做成棺槨定會很快朽爛，用它做成器皿定會很快毀壞，用它做成屋門定會流脂而不合縫，用它做成屋柱定會被蟲蛀蝕。這是不能取材的樹。沒有什麼用處，所以它才能有如此壽延。」

 

匠人石回到家裡，夢見社樹對他說：「你將用什麼東西跟我相提並論呢？你打算拿可用之木來跟我相比嗎？那楂、梨、橘、柚都屬於果樹，果實成熟就會被打落在地，打落果子以後枝幹也就會遭受摧殘，大的枝幹被折斷，小的枝丫被拽下來。這就是因為它們能結出鮮美果實才苦了自己的一生，所以常常不能終享天年而半途夭折，自身招來了世俗人們的打擊。各種事物莫不如此。而且我尋求沒有什麼用處的辦法已經很久很久了，幾乎被砍死，這才保全住性命，無用也就成就了我最大的用處。假如我果真是有用，還能夠獲得延年益壽這一最大的用處嗎？況且你和我都是『物』，你這樣看待事物怎麼可以呢？你不過是幾近死亡的沒有用處的人，又怎麼會真正懂得沒有用處的樹木呢！」

匠人石醒來後把夢中的情況告訴給他的弟子。弟子說：「旨意在於求取無用，那麼又做什麼社樹讓世人瞻仰呢？」匠人石說：「閉嘴，別說了！它只不過是在寄托罷了，反而招致不瞭解自己的人的辱罵和傷害。如果它不做社樹的話，它還不遭到砍伐嗎？況且它用來保全自己的辦法與眾不同，而用常理來瞭解它，可不就相去太遠了嗎！」

http://www.sinology.cn/Article/2005/Article_2041_4.html

 

 

TBC.....Good night.

[Marblehead]

TBC.....Good night.

 

I see you have been thinking in Chinese again. Hehehe.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Marblehead

[ChiDragon]

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 went to the state of Qi2. He arrived in Qu-Yuan, and saw an oak tree which worshiped by the people as an altar. The top of the oak tree can cover few thousands of cattle. If the trunk was measured with a rope, it was ten meters thick. The tree top is tall as the top of the hill. The trunk has branches at eighty feet high above the ground. It can used to build more than ten boats. The spectators are overwhelming from allover the place to see the tree, but this Jiang4 Ren2 did not even take a peek of it and continuously moving forward.

 

His disciple stood there staring at the tree for a long time; then he ran up to catch up with Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 and said: "Ever since I'd picked up an axe and followed you, I had never seen such a strong beautiful tree before. How come you are not willing to take a look but just moving along without stopping....???"

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 answered back: "Forget it! Let's not talk about it anymore...!!! This is an useless tress, it will sink if it was used to build a boat. It will rot if used as a casket. It will break if it was used as an utensil. It will not hold the paint nor align with the door jam if it was used as a door. It will be eaten by insects if it was use as a beam. It was useless, that is why it can last this long.

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 went home and had dreamed that the oak tree said to him: "What are you going to use to compare me with...??? That hawthorn, pear, orange, and grapefruit trees are fruit trees; all their fruits will fall to the ground when ripen, then the branches become abused, the big ones were being copped down, the small ones get to be snapped off."

 

That was because of the end result of having the ability to produce some delicious fruits which causing hardship throughout their lives. Thus this does not allow it to complete its life cycle instead die half way. That was its own penalty induced from the common people. Isn't that everything was not just like so?

 

Anyhow, I had been seeking a method to be useless for a long long time already. I was almost had chopped to death. That was how I am keeping myself alive. Uselessness has been my greatest usage.

 

Supposedly, I really have some usefulness, then would I still be able to have the benefit of longevity...??? And so, you and I are a "thing". How can you look at all matters this way...??? You are only an useless one who is close to death; how would you really understand an useless tree...???"

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 woke up and told the his dream to the disciple.

The disciple said: "The goal was to pursue "uselessness", then why does the tree was letting the people to worship it...???

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 said: "Close you mouth, don't say it anymore! It was only its reliance on the people. In the contrary, it induced insults and harms from those who didn't understand it. If it was not a community tree, could it haven't had been cut by now...??? BTW the method it was using to protect itself was something else. If ordinary reasons were used for comprehension, isn't that was kind of too remote...???"

Edited November 21, 2011 by ChiDragon

[konchog uma]

A carpenter named Shih, who was on his way to Ch'i, came to

Bent Shaft. There he saw a chestnut-leaved oak that served as the

local shrine. The tree was so big that several thousand head of

cattle could take shade beneath it and it was a hundred spans in

circumference . It was so tall that it surveyed the surrounding

hills; only above eighty feet were there any branches shooting out

from its trunk. It had ten or more limbs from each of which yo u

could make a boat. Those who came to gaze upon it were as

numerous as the crowds in a market. The master carpenter paid

no attention to it, but kept walking without slowing his pace a

bit. After his disciples had had their fill of gazing upon the great

tree, they caught up with carpenter Shih and said, "Since we have

taken up our axes to follow you, master, we have never seen such

marvelous timber as this . Why, sir, were you unwilling to look at

it, but kept on walking without even slowing down?"

" Enough! Don't talk about it! It's defective wood. A boat

made from it would sink. A coffin made from it would rot right

away. An implement made from it would break right away. A door

made from it would exude resin. A pillar made from it would soon

be grub-infested. This tree is worthless. There's nothing you can

make from it. That's why it could grow to be so old."

 

After the carpenter had returned to his own country, the

shrine oak appeared to him in a dream, saying, "With what trees

will you compare me? Will you compare me with those that have

fine-grained wood? As for the hawthorn, the pear, the orange,

the pomelo, and other fructiferous trees, once their fruits are

ripe, they are torn off, and the trees are thereby abused. The big

branches are broken and the smaller branches are snapped . These

are trees that make their own lives miserable because of their

abilities. Therefore, they cannot finish out the years allotted to

them by heaven but die midway. They are trees that bring upon

themselves the assaults of the worldly. It's the same with all

things. But I have sought for a long time to be useless. Now, on

the verge of death, I have finally learned what uselessness really

means and that it is of great use to me. If, after all, I had been

useful, would I have been able to grow so big? Furthermore, you

and I are both things, so why the deuce should you appraise

another thing? You're a defective person on the verge of death.

What do you know about 'defective wood'?"

 

When carpenter Shih awoke, he told the dream to his

disciples. "If the oak's intention is to be useless, then why does it

serve as the local shrine?" they asked.

"Silence! Don't say another word! The oak is merely assum-

ing the guise of a shrine to ward off the curses of those who do

not understand it. If it were not a shrine, it would still face the

threat of being cut down. Moreover, what the oak is preserving is

different from the masses of other trees. If we attempt to

understand it on the basis of conventional morality, won't we be

far from the point?"

[Marblehead]

Nice translation.

 

Ah!, the useless tree. Useless? To whom? Seems its life of being undesirable by all has served itself very well indeed. And in the process has become sacred!

[konchog uma]

Nice translation.

 

Ah!, the useless tree. Useless? To whom? Seems its life of being undesirable by all has served itself very well indeed. And in the process has become sacred!

 

i like the idea of the tree not considering itself sacred, just using that idea to ward off death. I also like the idea of the yinyang of useless and useful, since it had to fulfill some purpose lest people just destroy it because thats what people do, it became a shrine and hence balanced its uselessness with usefullness in a natural way.

 

i really took those ideas to heart when i was younger, and i wanted to be a useless shrine. Kind of like the body as temple metaphor, i mean. I gave up my aspirations and began to study taiji and meditate for long hours a day. Its nice to see that i have come close to attaining my uselessness in life, and that the people that really know me find me very useful!

[Marblehead]

i like the idea of the tree not considering itself sacred, just using that idea to ward off death. I also like the idea of the yinyang of useless and useful, since it had to fulfill some purpose lest people just destroy it because thats what people do, it became a shrine and hence balanced its uselessness with usefullness in a natural way.

 

i really took those ideas to heart when i was younger, and i wanted to be a useless shrine. Kind of like the body as temple metaphor, i mean. I gave up my aspirations and began to study taiji and meditate for long hours a day. Its nice to see that i have come close to attaining my uselessness in life, and that the people that really know me find me very useful!

 

Nicely spoken!

 

I didn't 'learn' it when I was young but late in life (after reading Chuang Tzu the first time) I realized that this was a true part of my nature.

[ChiDragon]

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 went to the state of Qi2. He arrived in Qu-Yuan, and saw an oak tree which worshiped by the people as an altar. The top of the oak tree can cover few thousands of cattle. If the trunk was measured with a rope, it was ten meters thick. The tree top is tall as the top of the hill. The trunk has branches at eighty feet high above the ground. It can used to build more than ten boats. The spectators are overwhelming from allover the place to see the tree, but this Jiang4 Ren2 did not even take a peek of it and continuously moving forward.

 

His disciple stood there staring at the tree for a long time; then he ran up to catch up with Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 and said: "Ever since I'd picked up an axe and followed you, I had never seen such a strong beautiful tree before. How come you are not willing to take a look but just moving along without stopping....???"

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 answered back: "Forget it! Let's not talk about it anymore...!!! This is an useless tress, it will sink if it was used to build a boat. It will rot if used as a casket. It will break if it was used as an utensil. It will not hold the paint nor align with the door jam if it was used as a door. It will be eaten by insects if it was use as a beam. It was useless, that is why it can last this long.

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 went home and had dreamed that the oak tree said to him: "What are you going to use to compare me with...??? That hawthorn, pear, orange, and grapefruit trees are fruit trees; all their fruits will fall to the ground when ripen, then the branches become abused, the big ones were being copped down, the small ones get to be snapped off."

 

That was because of the end result of having the ability to produce some delicious fruits which causing hardship throughout their lives. Thus this does not allow it to complete its life cycle instead die half way. That was its own penalty induced from the common people. Isn't that everything was not just like so?

 

Anyhow, I had been seeking a method to be useless for a long long time already. I was almost had chopped to death. That was how I am keeping myself alive. Uselessness has been my greatest usage.

 

Supposedly, I really have some usefulness, then would I still be able to have the benefit of longevity...??? And so, you and I are a "thing". How can you look at all matters this way...??? You are only an useless one who is close to death; how would you really understand an useless tree...???"

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 woke up and told the his dream to the disciple.

The disciple said: "The goal was to pursue "uselessness", then why does the tree was letting the people to worship it...???

 

Jiang4 Ren2 Shi4 said: "Close you mouth, don't say it anymore! It was only its reliance on the people. In the contrary, it induced insults and harms from those who didn't understand it. If it was not a community tree, could it haven't had been cut by now...??? BTW the method it was using to protect itself was something else. If ordinary reasons were used for comprehension, isn't that was kind of too remote...???"

 

Finally, my thinking in Chinese was finished..........

Edited November 21, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

Finally, my thinking in Chinese was finished..........

 

Yea!!!

 

I practice being useless to most people. There are only a select few to whom I present myself as being useful and those are ones who do not abuse me.