Returning to the way after enlightenment

[Patrick Brown]

[Marblehead]

OK so once we, the few, have gained our insight / self-realization we must return to the way.

 

That sounds like a contradiction.

 

Now I will go back and read the rest of your post. Hehehe.

[Marblehead]

Okay, so I read the rest of the post and sure enough, it was a contradiction.

[Bahram]

[Patrick Brown]

[Marblehead]

[deci belle]

[Patrick Brown]

I'm sure it was! I didn't even go up there. I simply accept the fact that there is a mountain.

 

The view is nice but we tend to get lonely.

 

I still haven't established a definition of "enlightenment" so any statement using the word will be problematic for me. Yes, nearly everyone is capable of understanding "the Way" and living pretty close to a natural state. But most people need drama in their life so staying on "the path" is most difficult.

 

There are two enlightenments, the realisation and then the living it. This can be seen as a blessing or a curse, When it's strengthened it is a blessing but when it's taken lightly it can become a curse. The esoteric aspects of the Tao Te Ching explain it so:

 

Twenty

Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.

Is there a difference between yes and no?

Is there a difference between good and evil?

Must I fear what others fear? What nonsense!

Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox.

In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace,

But I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am.

Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile,

I am alone, without a place to go.

Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.

I am a fool. Oh, yes! I am confused.

Others are clear and bright,

But I alone am dim and weak.

Others are sharp and clever,

But I alone am dull and stupid.

Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,

Without direction, like the restless wind.

Everyone else is busy,

But I alone am aimless and depressed.

I am different.

I am nourished by the great mother.

 

 

Yeah, this is automatically problematic for me, as I mentioned above. I know that if a person is at peace with their Self, contented with their condition in life, and have few, if any, conflicts with others, one is living a pretty darn good life. Beyond that I think we stray into belief systems and that's not what life should be all about, IMO.

 

Yes and this is why all beings attain to nirvana regardless of whether they're enlightened or not. Religion is just another aspect of the ten thousand things but there are gems of Tao like wheat in chaff!

 

Enlightenment is instantaneous; Realization is endless transformations.

 

The gradual leads to the sudden; yet this itself is not stepping over eternity, only observing the inconceivable. Unless one can grasp the emptiness of both relative and absolute, the stupid cat is trapped in the cave. The alchemical classics state that when one is finished using lead, one must then get rid of it entirely. The embryo of immortality must be incubated for ten months without letting out as much as a spark.

 

Yes it's about being self-born, the lotus-born. The shell of ego is dropped, slowly, and a more refined state is born like a butterfly. Ego still remains but it now knows it place as servant and not master. Many people don't make it (they often go mad) because their ego will not bow down to the higher self.

 

If one is not utterly puffed up with the peerless conceit of imperious white-hot enlightenment, then what one experienced may not have been the complete and thoroughgoing interruption of self-reflective intellectual consciousness. It really is a big pill to swallow. Fortunately for me, there was no one to tell. And since I did not know what to make of what happened to me in spite of my studies, it took 5 years just to figure that much out. I found that the taoist alchemic classics essential for before. but the Chan teachings were the ticket for dealing with after. I actually read the Flower Ornament Scripture one and a half times before discovering Cultivating the Empty Field by Hongzhi. After another 5 years or so, I was able to begin grasping and synthesizing the work of Dogen in terms of ordinary affairs. I never dealt much with koan work at all.

 

Similar for me, it's almost like recovering from a car accident! Tibetan Buddhism states that psychosis is a prerequisite to enlightenment and I think they might be right. Showing the ego it's mortality is a great wake up call yet the irony is that the ego does have a kind of imortality but not the same as the immortals / enlightened ones.

 

If one is able to keep this to oneself and can pass through the subsequent shakedown without leaking the potential of the embryonic immortal (the art of War states that the victory of war is lost in celebration), the accomplishment can be said to have been initially secured~ though not necessarily matured. Gradual and sudden are one in actuality. Self-refinement never ends, so there is no end to the gradual path. Buddhahood is not conferred upon experience of the inconceivable~ it is only entry into the inconceivable itself. When this too is dropped off, one can then step over eternity and continue in the steps of prior illuminates integrating fully the selfless reality within the context of ordinary affairs unbeknownst to anyone.

 

Yes this is where the ego puts up a fight and takes on the illusion of enlightenment thinking it knows thereby exacerbating ones doubts. A good example of this is Jesus in the desert for forty days and nights. People like Aleister Crowley obviously got stuck in a ego trip.

 

If by "returning to the way after enlightenment" you mean the practice of Virtue which is harmonization of the light of potential in ordinary affairs, completing tasks and undertaking affairs for universal good in secret— stepping over eternity and taking up the path of prior illuminates is just this. As for returning to the way after enlightenment you mean somehow holding on to your little personal ball of perfect enlightenment so as to keep it separate from ordinary reality— this is utter failure of the foregoing accomplishment in that both absolute and relative are empty of reality. One cannot hang on to enlightenment any more than one can hang on to mundanity and still take over the pivot of creation and operate the yin convergence, following the alternations of yin and yang while transcending the endless cycles of creation. Otherwise, one is just a thief trapped in the house without a master, grasping the jewel that can't fit through the door.

I just think non attachment sums it up yet the experience can be made manifest through being "it" as in being the way. Again Jesus, " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me", which of course is pretty self explanatory.

 

The Way is not enlightenment as you stated correctly. The way cannot be attained. Enlightenment is only seeing that the way is you, and that you are not it. There is even that which is beyond the way. As for realization, one enters the mystery day by day; the world turns into silent islands in a sea of jewels. What can be attained and practiced is virtue, theVirtue of the Receptive.

 

To the capacity that one is able to function

When one sees through events, people, things and thoughts

One recognizes the flow of the breath and the pulse of life

Within the knowledge of one's nature

As situations crystalize according to the times

Complete, whole and integral in principle.

 

Then what is witnessed and carried out

Held or released, revealed or resealed

Mixed in or dispersed by oneself

Is in response to the timing

Of a situation's inherent organization

Not one's own contrivance.

Because it is not an hypothetical ideal

But the natural function of the response body

Of completely real enlightening beings

There is no effort.

 

This is loosing oneself in humanity

The real humanity in humanity which is not a person.

Not a person is the quality of sameness

Which is the selfless function of true intent

The Virtue of the Receptive.

 

Which is why the sage is like a little child.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Patrick Brown

[mYTHmAKER]

"Patrick Brown

There are two enlightenments, the realisation and then the living it. This can be seen as a blessing or a curse, When it's strengthened it is a blessing but when it's taken lightly it can become a curse. The esoteric aspects of the Tao Te Ching explain it so:

 

Quote

 

Twenty

Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.

Is there a difference between yes and no?

Is there a difference between good and evil?

Must I fear what others fear? What nonsense!

Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox.

In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace,

But I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am.

Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile,

I am alone, without a place to go.

Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.

I am a fool. Oh, yes! I am confused.

Others are clear and bright,

But I alone am dim and weak.

Others are sharp and clever,

But I alone am dull and stupid.

Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,

Without direction, like the restless wind.

Everyone else is busy,

But I alone am aimless and depressed.

I am different.

I am nourished by the great mother.

End quote "

 

Curses

Edited November 16, 2011 by mYTHmAKER

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Sometimes we should join in the music, sometimes we should just dance.

[Patrick Brown]

Curses

 

Well for some, and bliss for others!

[Patrick Brown]

Sometimes we should join in the music, sometimes we should just dance.

Timing helps!

 

 

 

 

[Birch]

My take is that "enlightenment" consists in realizing how far away from the way your thinking and your actions were. But I'm not enlightened, I'm just, well, y'know:-) A person.

I plan to take up tai-chi soon. Now very worried about finding the right teacher.

[deci belle]

[Birch]

Ur Db, it was sort of what i was getting at in my post. Nevermind, seems I'm not always very articulate.

To your question about the right tai-chi teacher. I think there is a difference between gymnasts and "sorted" (sorry, that just came to min d:-))

Besides, my tendons care whether I'm doing it wrong or not (monkey see, monkey do still!)

Plus it would be fun fur heavens sakes.

[Everything]

All I can say is that it was bloody cold on top of that mountain!

 

 

But seriously I differentiate between “the way” and “enlightenment”. As I’ve said before in the past only a very few people can become enlightened. So what does this mean for everybody else? Well everyone will eventually attain to nirvanic bliss but only a very few will be enlightened beings.

 

So there’s learning to live in the world and there’s learning to live in the world as an enlightened being! I’m sure people will argue the toss about this and it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

I'm not sure, but I think that the enlightened beings help construct the world as they live in it. The people who are not enlightened live within that structure that is provided for them. This structure is the frame of reference which allows them to learn and make room for more people to move towards enlightenment.

 

Its kinda broad to word it like that. Isn't that kinda the core of it?

Edited November 17, 2011 by Everything

[Birch]

I'm not sure, but I think that the enlightened beings help construct the world as they live in it. The people who are not enlightened live within that structure that is provided for them. This structure is the frame of reference which allows them to learn and move towards the enlightenment. Its kinda broad to word it like that. Isn't that kinda the core of it?

 

That's pretty dangerous! And probably closer to both the truth and the present reasons for our terrible circumstances than you think!

[Aaron]

If one has achieved enlightenment, then they will not stray from the path, for they will know that no path exists. If one has set you on a path to achieve enlightenment, then you have achieved what they have shown you, and little more. Be aware of what you know, what you have been taught, then throw it out the window.

 

Enlightenment teaches you that there is no path, that life happens of its own accord and everything that we achieve on our path is merely the results of what could have been and has been, as a result of our own perceptions.

 

Realize that your perceptions are not reality, but rather how you perceive reality, and you can never stray from the path, for the path leads in any direction you choose to walk. The way is not set in stone, but it is the stone. It is not written in letters, but it is the letters. The path does not soar above the clouds, it is the clouds. Do not mistake a single destination as the end of your journey, for the journey continues regardless of where you are.

 

Aaron

 

edit- I am feeling very in tune now, so accept these words of wisdom while they are with me, for they may be gone tomorrow.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Twinner

[Marblehead]

edit- I am feeling very in tune now, so accept these words of wisdom while they are with me, for they may be gone tomorrow.

 

Well, I think you did very well with that post. I only ask that you leave my stones alone. Hehehe.

[Birch]

Well, I think you did very well with that post. I only ask that you leave my stones alone. Hehehe.

Seems the stones are talking after all Mr MH:-)

[Marblehead]

Seems the stones are talking after all Mr MH:-)

 

Yeah, our imagination can take us places we can never get to in real life. And talk about our imaginary friends!!!

[Patrick Brown]

A hint!

 

[Patrick Brown]

[Patrick Brown]

I'm not sure, but I think that the enlightened beings help construct the world as they live in it. The people who are not enlightened live within that structure that is provided for them. This structure is the frame of reference which allows them to learn and make room for more people to move towards enlightenment.

 

Its kinda broad to word it like that. Isn't that kinda the core of it?

 

I think you need to be careful with that one. What you say may well be true of the Buddha, Jesus etc but the world is pretty much built on vanity and greed. I pretty much despise religion but it's seems to be a necessary, err evil! No it's not evil it's just that people don't get it and often abuse it. The world abounds with religious hypocrites!

 

That's pretty dangerous! And probably closer to both the truth and the present reasons for our terrible circumstances than you think!

 

Well most religions have been high-jacked by those that would control us! Any turning of the wheel of dharma is often resisted by governments and people in positions of power. The reason the wheel of dharma turns is to reinterpret the teachings to suit the age we live in. I'm not sure what form the new dharma will take but something is happening. Perhaps psychology is the direction we're moving in?