Ch. 80, Taoist prophecy?

[Marblehead]

There is no objective reality.

 

I knew you would get around to saying that. I totally disagree with you on this concept.

 

The entire Manifest realm of Tao is objective reality. Mystery (spirituality) is subjective. Chi is a little of both.

[thelerner]

I knew you would get around to saying that. I totally disagree with you on this concept.

 

The entire Manifest realm of Tao is objective reality. Mystery (spirituality) is subjective. Chi is a little of both.

I agree, how do discuss anything with someone who isn't sure if the chair they're sitting on exists or not. Thats why zen masters carried sticks and used them often on the more existential members. Few things say you exist more then pain.

 

Or some one who's just found that bad things happen. Thus society is evil?

 

Here.. Everything is not sure if a chair he's sitting on exists, yet seems to believe a video on the internet. (hmnn believe eyes ears, butt or internet video?) In this case I do believe it, but its one video of one event. If something at that space and time happened differently would your philosophy change 100%, everything lovey dovey in the world, because someone, somewhere stopped to help a fallen child. Cause there's videos of that too. Happens every day.

 

Personally I'm not taken by surprise by videos like that. You study a little history and quickly learn a lot of shit happened, is happening and will happen in the future. I think we need to actively study the good things to counter act it. And there's a whale of lot of good happening, it just doesn't get the press.

 

I'm biased against those who do no good, because they fall back on semantic philosophies of existentialism. You can do it for a while, but the world is real and demands real action. Sit around wondering if you're a butterfly, life's gonna pass you by. And P.S butterflies don't type.

Edited November 21, 2011 by thelerner

[Marblehead]

And P.S butterflies don't type.

 

Good point. I laughed.

[Everything]

I agree, how do discuss anything with someone who isn't sure if the chair they're sitting on exists or not. Thats why zen masters carried sticks and used them often on the more existential members. Few things say you exist more then pain.

 

Or some one who's just found that bad things happen. Thus society is evil?

 

Here.. Everything is not sure if a chair he's sitting on exists, yet seems to believe a video on the internet. (hmnn believe eyes ears, butt or internet video?) In this case I do believe it, but its one video of one event. If something at that space and time happened differently would your philosophy change 100%, everything lovey dovey in the world, because someone, somewhere stopped to help a fallen child. Cause there's videos of that too. Happens every day.

 

Personally I'm not taken by surprise by videos like that. You study a little history and quickly learn a lot of shit happened, is happening and will happen in the future. I think we need to actively study the good things to counter act it. And there's a whale of lot of good happening, it just doesn't get the press.

 

I'm biased against those who do no good, because they fall back on semantic philosophies of existentialism. You can do it for a while, but the world is real and demands real action. Sit around wondering if you're a butterfly, life's gonna pass you by. And P.S butterflies don't type.

I'm sorry, maybe I wash too harsh to say that this society is that bad. There's always room for improvement, ofcourse! We should take it step by step.

 

Its not an uncertainty to say that your chair doesn't exist. It doesn't change your chair. It doesn't change reality. It just attacks that deeply rooted believe that this manifest reality is objective. You can still experience it. Isn't that what you're here for? To experience the chair, to interact with this reality, to make decisions, to learn and to evolve towards love. You are here to evolve your soul not these materials. Evolve the material, the manifest, and you get nothing. The manifest is nothing. If you don't agree with me, you must ask your self how certain you are of your own believe that the manifest is objective. Actually try to put it in words with evidence from personal experience. You don't have to tell it to me, analyze your own personal evidence and experience of this reality as objective. I can't show you God either, I can only TRY and help you discover it for yourself. You are the only teacher in this.

 

Ask people of death and they become scared and sad. Who are you? Your body? Do you feel pain when you are hungry? I do... Are you more afraid of pain then of God? I do sometimes, am working on it... People are so egoistic that they make themselves more important then God in their minds! I've done it myself aswell... Not talking about you by the way. Most people in general. If you're more spiritual then most people, you will be willing to walk the right path without fear. When you don't know the right path, there is no sin in your shortcomings. I suggest you find out and don't just wonder about butterflies. Actually analyze it, do your own research, analyze your self and other people in perspectives, make conclusions, keep developing your understanding and evolve it. Try to find God. The Way is very VERY subtle. You will not easily recognize it, thats for sure. Its not a road of brown sand running trough a green land. "The Way" is a metaphor itself. TTC goes so far as to say that you can actually not experience it! You can only receive subtle hints at its existance, I'm sure of this. You can weave your life around the way. The Tao is the most important tool and metaphor in our lifes. Dao ke Dao, Fei Chang Dao. Don't go about spreading lies about this reality. We are not God to speak about truth and objective reality. As soon as the word leaves our mouth it is a lie. Be humble towards God, this is the most important thing. Don't associate anything with God. No worldy thing can replace God. He is the sovereign and He alone.

 

It doesn't matter who is higher in spirituality or who is lower. The thing that matters is that you're on the path. You have your own signs. Do you think that we can only live on logical terms? We have to be sensitive aswell. When you try to serve God, you will be tested. If you're lazy, you will be challenged to activate. If you're impulsive, your patience will be tested. In the end, you will see how the struggles are very significant in your life. Wandering about life being a butterfly isn't good or bad. If your Way leads you to this, this is the very core purpose of your life. Don't worry about life passing away! Have infinite patience in achieving your purpose. God loves the patience. Don't wine about struggles too much either. Infact, invite struggles. For me, getting trough them couragiously and patiently has ment much.

 

Your efforts on walking the Way in this life will not go to waste. You will be rewarded for it. Not your ego, but your very soul/spirit/Consciousness will evolve. This is what I believe. You serve God by walking the Way.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Everything

[Marblehead]

 

It doesn't matter who is higher in spirituality or who is lower. The thing that matters is that you're on the path. You have your own signs.

 

I enjoy agreeing with you whenever I can. This is one of those times.

[thelerner]

I enjoy agreeing with you whenever I can. This is one of those times.

Yup a good rebuttal to my somewhat rude monolog.

 

I get that way when I think people are over philosophizing. There was a time I was pretty 'top heavy' too much into philosophy, these days I'm more into keeping it real. I can dig the concept I'm a construct within God, but doesn't change my life, give me powers or cook the rice.

[Everything]

I enjoy agreeing with you whenever I can. This is one of those times.

Thank you. I enjoy this agreeing too

[Marblehead]

Thank you. I enjoy this agreeing too

 

Funny though, the deeper discussions normal result from initial disagreements. Strange how our mind works sometimes.

[Everything]

Funny though, the deeper discussions normal result from initial disagreements. Strange how our mind works sometimes.

Yeah, opposites compliment eachother. I've noticed this ever since I've checked the symptons on what is in psychology being labeled as "personality disorders"

 

Little story of opposite personality disorders in a survival situation:

You have a borderline "disorder" and anti-social "disorder". When they both practice agreement with eachother, they're cured in no time. There is contentment in the food they both hunt and there is some disagreement over who gets more. Now lets say that the anti-social person kills all and he gets allot of food! The borderline person does not even feel worthy enough to enjoy his food so he is content with a little! haha. They make eachothers symptons worse. The anti-social person sees this weakness and naturally loaths it. Challenges it. He insults the borderline guy and even belittles him. The borderline guy gets angry, suprresses it into sadness and avoids the other person, but depends on him at the same time! The borderline guy starts to invent creative things to make life more easy, out of boredom and experimentation or playing. For example, he makes a fire or a blanket, playing with his inventions. The anti-social guy thinks he is wasting time, but when offered a new invention like a blanket, does not denie it. When the anti-social guy sees how the borderline person creates a fire so easily, he uses it to cook the meat. They form a bond, etc. When the disagreement stops, they socialize and start the maturation process, complimenting eachother in personality.

 

Its kinda unnatural to be able to avoid people you disagree with too much. Especially when you label them with stuff like "personality disorder". It blocks the whole maturation process. I think in our society we have no more time to even disagree with people. Even family life becomes neglected, because everyone is so busy all the time. Where in the past two brothers would eventually solve their disagreements in puberty, nowadays they leave have so busy lives that sometimes family still disagree with eachother after years. Having to work day after day leaves no room for developing your self. When people are not busy, they just hang out with people they agree with. So we have to make effort to become a good individual and challenge our selves towards becoming our own opposites.

 

Everytime I see two people disagree so strongly and passionately, I just know they're opposite and compliment eachother so perfectly. Its funny indeed! hehe

[Marblehead]

Its kinda unnatural to be able to avoid people you disagree with too much. Especially when you label them with stuff like "personality disorder". It blocks the whole maturation process. I think in our society we have no more time to even disagree with people. Even family life becomes neglected, because everyone is so busy all the time. Where in the past two brothers would eventually solve their disagreements in puberty, nowadays they leave have so busy lives that sometimes family still disagree with eachother after years. Having to work day after day leaves no room for developing your self. When people are not busy, they just hang out with people they agree with. So we have to make effort to become a good individual and challenge our selves towards becoming our own opposites.

 

I like the way you said that. And from my observations it is true.