My first full lotus experiences

[voidisyinyang]

[voidisyinyang]

Fascinating Kriya Yoga full lotus small universe kundalini practice analysis.

 

http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/files/English%20III.pdf

[ben]

I prefer rancho relaxo....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[taooneusa]

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[mantis]

It's strange how the Indian yogis use the left leg over the right instead of the reverse.

 

As for me, at 7 minutes daily now and it gets more and more comfortable. I don't feel any kind of strain or effort to sit longer.

[Ish]

Yeah interesting, the illustrations in Taoist Yoga also have the left leg on top in lotus.

Perhaps right leg on top for building energy, yang oriented cultivation. Left leg on top for the spiritual level.

Maybe it's just not important .

[Informer]

It doesn't seem that full lotus should be hard to accomplish. I just did half lotus A couple times during meditation and about a week later I can make it into full lotus for a couple secs I think I'll just keep stretching both legs out from half-lotus until it is more comfortable. I'm prob one of the lesser flexible people on here. I have always been below average when it came to stretching in school.

[mantis]

It doesn't seem that full lotus should be hard to accomplish. I just did half lotus A couple times during meditation and about a week later I can make it into full lotus for a couple secs I think I'll just keep stretching both legs out from half-lotus until it is more comfortable. I'm prob one of the lesser flexible people on here. I have always been below average when it came to stretching in school.

 

When you say a couple of seconds do you say this because one of your legs slide out of place or because the discomfort is too great?

[joeblast]

I used to be of the opinion that "screw that, I'm just NOT that flexible" perhaps 4, 5 years ago - but after putting forth some effort at the stretches and such, I'm more flexible than I thought possible.

[Informer]

When you say a couple of seconds do you say this because one of your legs slide out of place or because the discomfort is too great?

 

I don't know, It just didn't feel like I fit that way properly yet, also I'm sitting in a swivel chair with out a back or arms on it, so it is more of a stool that rocks and I lost my balance. The trick for me is to stuff my foot as as as it can go towards my thigh, still can't hold it long tho.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Informer

[voidisyinyang]

It's strange how the Indian yogis use the left leg over the right instead of the reverse.

 

As for me, at 7 minutes daily now and it gets more and more comfortable. I don't feel any kind of strain or effort to sit longer.

Wow I was sitting at the computer in a chair and then looked at Sri Yukteswar and realized you're right -- he's got left on top. So then I went into full lotus now with the left on top -- this is the first time I've done this. haha.

 

Yeah I'm not sure it really matters. I mean I'm sure it matters somewhat -- I brush my teeth with my "wrong" hand so that I don't use as much force but them today I noticed I had subconsciously switched back to my usual hand and I had been using too much force. So actually Gurdjieff recommended this for his students -- to switch hands doing everything because it forces us out of the instinctual framework. He also emphasizes that it's the Moving Center that has to be stilled to open up the Emotional Center -- and so then sitting in full lotus would be optimum to still the moving center as it locks you in. haha.

 

I was thinking today of the quote someone has for their tag -- I think it's Vortex -- how stilling the body builds up the chi energy and stilling the mind builds up the shen energy. I think this is such a simple yet awesome way of expressing the practice.

 

I said that to my nephew when he asked me if I needed help. I said -- have you ever tried to move a bicycle wheel? He said yes. I said have you ever tried to move it by the hub. He said no. I said spinning it by the side is like working your body but holding the wheel by the hub and spinning the wheel is like working your mind. haha.

 

The legs are the branches of the tree and the roots of the tree are the neurons of the brain. So I used to wonder about this -- how and why is the tree inverted -- shouldn't the roots be the ground? haha. But we are reversing the direction of the life force energy so it no longer drains out the bottom and instead feeds and nourishes the brain.

 

I was reading Livia Kohn's Internal Alchemy book last night -- the reason females are yang internally is because the jing energy is from their blood and their chi center is focused between the breasts where the most blood is focused. The blood is the dragon. The male jing energy is the semen and it is focused to turn into chi in the coccyx and since it is white it is the tiger. So the male is yin internally because the tiger energy gets easily lost.

 

So then when we raise up the water tiger energy to properly nourish the roots of the tree then the tree can properly photosynthesis the cosmic solar yang energy to turn the semen into chi.

[Jetsun]

He also emphasizes that it's the Moving Center that has to be stilled to open up the Emotional Center -- and so then sitting in full lotus would be optimum to still the moving center as it locks you in. haha.

 

Gurdjieff taught dances of constant movement to open up the emotional centre, as soon as you mastered one stance or movement you were forced to move onto another one so you were never in stasis so your practice didn't become robotic sleep. If he was your master he would probably get you out of full lotus as the first thing he did so you don't rely on it as a crux or a place of stability to fall asleep in. In essence he would never prescribe one technique like full lotus for too long to anyone as any technique can become mechanical and send you back to sleep once mastered and it gets ingrained within you as a habit.

[mantis]

I don't know, It just didn't feel like I fit that way properly yet, also I'm sitting in a swivel chair with out a back or arms on it, so it is more of a stool that rocks and I lost my balance. The trick for me is to stuff my foot as as as it can go towards my thigh, still can't hold it long tho.

 

The reason I asked is because if you can only uncomfortably hold the pose for a few seconds you might want to try forgetting about it for a while and just try stretching as much as you can. Even before I started stretching diligently I could sit in full lotus for a good 30 minutes but I was overcompensating and was never truly "comfortable" as I now am.

 

As an aside, I think being slim is especially helpful when tackling the full lotus position. I gave up weight training a few months ago and I then had 27" inch thighs (I can post a picture for non-believers, this was at 185lbs). I've naturally slimmed down considerably (~165 or so) with the bulk of the weight coming from my quad/glute area as that is where I am naturally heaviest, it's been much easier to sit since. My 0.02c.

[voidisyinyang]

Gurdjieff taught dances of constant movement to open up the emotional centre, as soon as you mastered one stance or movement you were forced to move onto another one so you were never in stasis so your practice didn't become robotic sleep. If he was your master he would probably get you out of full lotus as the first thing he did so you don't rely on it as a crux or a place of stability to fall asleep in. In essence he would never prescribe one technique like full lotus for too long to anyone as any technique can become mechanical and send you back to sleep once mastered and it gets ingrained within you as a habit.

 

Actually Gurdjieff, unfortunately, never created another energy master, unlike Chunyi Lin who sat in full lotus for seven weeks non-stop. haha. Gurdjieff admitted that the real masters were back in Central Asia -- probably the sufis he had stayed with who do rely on fasting and long sitting meditation.

 

The full lotus is like the paradox of motion -- if something moves so fast then we can not see it move -- it is motionless. So light, for example, is not relative -- if light is attached to a moving object, the speed of light doesn't change -- it doesn't speed up or slow down even if it is part of an object that is moving faster or slower.

 

We know that light slows down in a medium but light itself is massless. So the West thinks of motion in terms of space measured by amplitude, weight and mass whereas non-western harmonics as Gurdjieff taught, relies on time as frequency, not spatial length.

 

For example, they assume that the particle of light, the photon, is massless. If the photon had a small rest mass, the SI definition of the metre would become meaningless because the speed of light would change as a function of its wavelength. They could not just define it to be constant. They would have to fix the definition of the metre by stating which colour of light was being used. Experiments have shown that the mass of the photon must be very small if it is not zero (see the FAQ: What is the mass of the photon?).

 

So light has momentum -- not mass. The full lotus relies on this complementary opposite harmonics -- that's why by stilling the moving center it sublimates the sex center to open up the emotion center.

 

Gurdjieff certainly demonstrated the full lotus without needing to do any preliminary stretches -- he could sit in it in ease. haha. But when Gurdjieff was teaching Westerners he relied more on mind yoga that was not as powerful -- so he said the problem with Westerners, the main problem, is there's no conscious sublimation of sex energy. The full lotus is most effective to do this -- as Yogananda states the full lotus burns bad karma.

 

Since Gurdjieff never created another energy master there has been endless debates about what Gurdjieff "really" meant with the Westerners fixated on his words -- for example the typical "book studies" of his huge tome that was censored by the publishers. Gurdjieff was suicidal because the publishers insisted on changing his words, thereby changing the meaning.

 

So the primary misunderstanding about Gurdjieff is his harmonic training because the Western mind has been brainwashed since Plato -- so Gurdjieff actually taught alchemy based on the Perfect Fifth ratio which is also the definition of "yang" in Taoism -- his alchemy is exactly the same as the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality." I've written a couple articles on this. http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/259-How-Qigong-or-Taoist-Yoga-Explains-Gurdjieff.html

 

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/283-Gurdjieff-and-the-Triode-Amplifier.htmlApr

 

The paradox of motion is best captured by de Broglie's Law of Phase Harmony -- the quantum physicist de Broglie noticed a contradiction in Einstein's Law of Relativity -- when time slows down, frequency increases. So what this means in the Law of Phase Harmony is that for relativity to be consistent from the perspective of quantum physics, which is the new foundation of physics, there has to be a "pilot wave" that is superliminal, faster than the speed of light. This pilot wave is consciousness itself but it can only be measured after the fact in science due to the time-frequency uncertainty principle.

 

It's exactly this time-frequency uncertainty principle that was the basis for Pythagorean harmonics as Taoist alchemy which Gurdjieff also taught as the "shocks" of the system.

 

Consciousness is the zero frequency - the zero motion -- when the amplitude as wavelength time is infinite. that's the secret of the Law of Phase Harmony. My book goes into the details more http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com to download it.

Edited December 29, 2011 by fulllotus

[taooneusa]

years ago I went to a public library here for copy of Beelzebubs Tales to His Gandson and found the Book at that branch had been listed as "pulled". I went there after reading a copy of the book I bought from a store. The foreword of that booked stated that Gurdjeifs original writings had been altered by earlier publishers and that the book I bought was in its unaltered form. I drove across town to another library and checked their county wide data base that showed copies of Beelzebubs in the entire county had been pulled. Made me wonder at the reprinting of an "original" if some deviant behind the scenes still monitors that book? Also if any authority ever confirmed?

I like this one

Edited December 29, 2011 by taooneusa

[Mark Foote]

Gurdjieff taught dances of constant movement to open up the emotional centre, as soon as you mastered one stance or movement you were forced to move onto another one so you were never in stasis so your practice didn't become robotic sleep. If he was your master he would probably get you out of full lotus as the first thing he did so you don't rely on it as a crux or a place of stability to fall asleep in. In essence he would never prescribe one technique like full lotus for too long to anyone as any technique can become mechanical and send you back to sleep once mastered and it gets ingrained within you as a habit.

 

I think that waking up and falling asleep are the same practice, for me they depend on my sense of location. That's my experience. Meditative states I believe are hypnogogic states, between wakefulness and sleep. I think Gautama had it right when he taught that the cessation of the activities, meaning the habitual activities, is gradual; first in speech, then in body, and lastly in sensation and perception. In the first meditative state, he said, speech has ceased; in the fourth, inhalation and exhalation have ceased (this is habitual activity in the body and the effect of volition on the movement of breath, not the actual inhalation and exhalation, although some have tried to say otherwise!); and in the final meditative state, perception and sensation have ceased (again, the habitual or volitive activity of perception and sensation).

 

I guess a person can get stuck on a posture, like the dialogue between the ancestors about trying to make a Buddha. I'm not sure that changing posture helps the individual to see where they are stuck. In the dialogue about making a Buddha, it's pointed out that when the cart won't go, you want to whip the horse, not the cart. For me this is what Drew is talking about with regard to consciousness, although I don't experience the energies that he speaks of; waking or sleeping, I find that the location of my consciousness moves, and if I allow the painful and the pleasant to inform the location of the occurrence of consciousness, the location of consciousness sits. If I am where I am as I am, the activities may cease; that's my experience, although I don't usually get the nice flow from ease to joy to equanimity to a further happiness that the Gautamid spoke of. Rough edges, but the mind of the lotus is somewhat unique in a proclivity to total stretch- at least it seems that way to me, from time to time.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Mark Foote

[Jetsun]

Gurdjieff produced another energy master in Madamme De Salzmann, if you read the book written from her notes called "The reality of being" it is clear to me she was very advanced, there may also be others we don't know about. I will read your blog about this fulllotus once I am back from work, I doubt Gurdjieff would be overall against sitting in full lotus all day but he would call it what it is which is "the way of the monk" which is a legitimate way but it is NOT the method he taught, as he thought the monks way of life is not suitable for most people so he taught methods of development to be used in normal work life which he thought was a faster method. He didn't even teach any meditation, in the eastern sense of the word anyway because sitting meditation isn't ideal for developing your "essence" if it is immature and undeveloped, no doubt he could sit in full lotus because he had worked through most of his tensions but I don't recall him stressing or even mentioning the full lotus once in all of his writings.

 

There is a second edition of his book Beelzebubs Tales but you can still buy the first edition which was published while he was still alive which I assume he approved of as there is an entire chapter written about the dangers of revision within it so he wouldn't have allowed it's release in a revised state.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Jetsun

[voidisyinyang]

Gurdjieff produced another energy master in Madamme De Salzmann, if you read the book written from her notes called "The reality of being" it is clear to me she was very advanced, there may also be others we don't know about. I will read your blog about this fulllotus once I am back from work, I doubt Gurdjieff would be overall against sitting in full lotus all day but he would call it what it is which is "the way of the monk" which is a legitimate way but it is NOT the method he taught, as he thought the monks way of life is not suitable for most people so he taught methods of development to be used in normal work life which he thought was a faster method. He didn't even teach any meditation, in the eastern sense of the word anyway because sitting meditation isn't ideal for developing your "essence" if it is immature and undeveloped, no doubt he could sit in full lotus because he had worked through most of his tensions but I don't recall him stressing or even mentioning the full lotus once in all of his writings.

 

There is a second edition of his book Beelzebubs Tales but you can still buy the first edition which was published while he was still alive which I assume he approved of as there is an entire chapter written about the dangers of revision within it so he wouldn't have allowed it's release in a revised state.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/76372370/The-Reality-of-Being-Jeanne-de-Salzmann Thanks for the book recommendation.

 

When you say she was "advanced" -- maybe so -- who knows? haha. I know Gurdjieff said that he wasn't advanced compared to his teachers in Central Asia and I know of only one significant energy transmission he did -- to his student he most closely admired. Peter - you probably know his full name -- but he says he saw a blue light shoot out of Gurdjieff to recharge him up. haha.

 

About his "tome" book -- Bennett says that it was never published in the form Gurdjieff wanted and this caused Gurdjieff to become suicidal. When I mentioned this on another forum -- http://webofmimicry.com -- the local Gurdjieff adherent had a hissy fit. haha. Again people have spent forever bickering over the true meaning of his "tome" book -- in various book circle studies, etc.

 

I don't think sitting in full lotus means being limited to the Way of the Monk. Gurjdieff's system is actually similar to the traditional types of yoga in India -- so you have mind yoga and bhakti yoga would be the way of the monk. Sitting in full lotus is not necessarily bhakti yoga -- it can be just as much jnana yoga as well. It could also be considered the way of the fakir if it's a painful position of the body held for ever -- with no other meaning to it. Personally I think the full lotus transcends all these limitations based on the philosophy of complementary opposites. Gurdjieff understood that philosophy but what he taught was not that advanced.

[Jetsun]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/76372370/The-Reality-of-Being-Jeanne-de-Salzmann Thanks for the book recommendation.

 

When you say she was "advanced" -- maybe so -- who knows? haha. I know Gurdjieff said that he wasn't advanced compared to his teachers in Central Asia and I know of only one significant energy transmission he did -- to his student he most closely admired. Peter - you probably know his full name -- but he says he saw a blue light shoot out of Gurdjieff to recharge him up. haha.

 

About his "tome" book -- Bennett says that it was never published in the form Gurdjieff wanted and this caused Gurdjieff to become suicidal. When I mentioned this on another forum -- http://webofmimicry.com -- the local Gurdjieff adherent had a hissy fit. haha. Again people have spent forever bickering over the true meaning of his "tome" book -- in various book circle studies, etc.

 

I don't think sitting in full lotus means being limited to the Way of the Monk. Gurjdieff's system is actually similar to the traditional types of yoga in India -- so you have mind yoga and bhakti yoga would be the way of the monk. Sitting in full lotus is not necessarily bhakti yoga -- it can be just as much jnana yoga as well. It could also be considered the way of the fakir if it's a painful position of the body held for ever -- with no other meaning to it. Personally I think the full lotus transcends all these limitations based on the philosophy of complementary opposites. Gurdjieff understood that philosophy but what he taught was not that advanced.

 

It is hard to accurately gauge the level of someone and their system, there are energy masters in India who can do energy transmissions and high level healings but later get exposed as abusive and morally corrupt and get exposed as paedophiles etc which Gurdjieff would call an example of unbalanced development. So you may be able to become a high level healer and energy master and remain screwed up in other ways like your emotional maturity, which is why in the fourth way they stress the importance of work on all centres at once to try to avoid this. You see examples of this unbalanced development on this site with those who only focus on mind development and talk to each other endlessly like robots without heart connection.

 

As for Madame De Salzmann's level generally in her system there is not a lot of qi projection or healing but that is not the be all and end all of spirituality, the Zen master Roshi Kobori said that she was "the most remarkable woman I have ever met" because she studied a method of develoment of every part of her being, apparently she was still climbing mountains when she was in her 90s.

[Medhavi]

...I doubt Gurdjieff would be overall against sitting in full lotus all day but he would call it what it is which is "the way of the monk" which is a legitimate way but it is NOT the method he taught, as he thought the monks way of life is not suitable for most people so he taught methods of development to be used in normal work life which he thought was a faster method. He didn't even teach any meditation, in the eastern sense of the word anyway because sitting meditation isn't ideal for developing your "essence" if it is immature and undeveloped...

 

You see, that's what I don't understand about Gurdjieff's system. The Fourth Way claims to develop all three centers(moving, emotional and intellectual) in their lower and higher form whereas in Search of the Miraculous, the "Way of the Fakir", "Way of the Monk" and "Way of the Yogi" are said to concentrate on one centre only, respectively the moving, emotional and intellectual centre.

Personally, I've never come across anyone who would fit into any of these three categories. When I put Gurdjieff into a historical perspective, I noticed that it was quite common to see these "Eastern Schools" like that because it fits western thinking(Or mainly British Orientalism)

The moment you stop reading popular literature(especially from the 1900-1950 period) and look into what specific schools are actually doing(like various schools of Shaivism and Neidan schools in Qing Dynasty China) Gurdjieff's generalisations fall apart.

Another problem is that I know that practitioners in any of those "Ways"(let's go with G.'s definitions here) are devoted to their practice full-time, whereas the Fourth Way miraculously does all the work of the so-called Fakir, Monk and Yogi at the same time! By all laws of the universe I know, that can't work too well.

 

 

What I actually do know is that nearly all Fourth Way schools out there(I am myself part of one) are very much focused on intellectual study...systematic reading of his works(Beelzebub included...note also how it often said that you should read it aloud to get its meaning, similar to chanting traditions found in all religions that have lost their meaning).

I would also be highly careful about Gurdjieff because he just was so similar to many of the "mystical messengers" of his time like Helena Blavatsky and her "Ascended Masters". We never got to know where exactly he pulled his teachings from. All we got were some mysterious hints at some Sufi order nobody has found in their own home country. I am not saying that anything he taught is wrong, but that these people from the so-called "Ways" can at least name their masters and the schools they represent.

 

And well, am I the only one in thinking that both Indian and Chinese yogic schools explain the actually practical stuff in much more lucid terms that are easy to grasp?

I don't know about you, but without heck of a lot of study of these "Eastern Ways"(that are allegedly "not practical for the West"), not much of Gurdjieff's writings actually make any sense. I did never understand his awkward terms like "Law of Octaves" and "hydrogen 6 and 12" until I studied Taoist Yoga and read drew's interpretation of how it might correlate.

Because seriously, reading Gurdjieff has given me the impression that he overcomplicates lots of things and shrouds things in such made up intellectual terms that most Fourth Way Groups are stuck with the philosophy, and that's that.

As you can see with Ouspensky and the lot, Gurdjieff wasn't all that successful with even giving other people, who actually trained with him, a comprehensible intellectual understanding that wouldn't get instantly distorted the moment he passed on. So nobody could carry on his "legacy". And I seriously want to know where this legacy is from.

Because I really suspect that he just repackaged diverse Eastern teachings and made something out of it which might appeal to the Westerners(who needs to be highly intellectual to even read his books). If that is the case, it would be kind of ironic, considering how each of the "categorised" ways seems to be more effective at what they do than what you can see in modern Fourth Way Groups(it hasn't transitioned all too well)

I can certainly say that one session of Full Lotus MCO does heck of a lot more to my mind and body than years of intellectual study and self-observation.

[Medhavi]

As for Madame De Salzmann's level generally in her system there is not a lot of qi projection or healing but that is not the be all and end all of spirituality, the Zen master Roshi Kobori said that she was "the most remarkable woman I have ever met" because she studied a method of develoment of every part of her being, apparently she was still climbing mountains when she was in her 90s.

 

Jeanne de Salzmann is exceptional, indeed. Correct me if I am wrong, but she probably was around Gurdjieff longer than the other disciples? I mean, it is rather obvious that Ouspensky was a highly intellectual man.

de Salzmann was much more of a "being". You can feel that. But it is likely that she was also more evenly developed.

So, in order for the Fourth Way idea of developing all centers harmoniously to occur, you'd have to be very clever and observant. Which is probably why I don't see this idea fulfilled in most Fourth Way groups which are much more in line with Ouspensky, I think.

To conclude, I very much think that these yogas of India and China have a much faster effect on the development of men, especially considering how they take you out of your intellectual mind for a while.

 

But if you can truly realise the Great Work as outlined by Gurdjieff, that's even better. But how many can do that?

Edited December 29, 2011 by Medhavi

[Jetsun]

I think you have some legitimate criticisms Medhavi, but if people take the teaching as purely intellectual that is an example of incorrect development, I think what happened after Gurdjieff died is a good example of what happens to all religions and schools when the master dies in that each teacher goes off and emphasises one part of the knowledge to the detriment of the whole system then the teachings become corrupted, I think this has happened to nearly all systems including Buddhism and Taoist, infact Gurdjieff precisely describes the laws by which this process works how all systems become corrupted. But not all of the schools are intellectual for example Madame De Salzmann emphasises work with the body ahead of intellectual ideas for most people. You work with the ideas to work on your mind, then you work with music, dances and body exercises to work on the emotional and physical centres, while self observation in daily life helps to harmonise all three.

 

Many of the ideas are made purposely hard to grasp so you have to work to understand them because people only appreciate things they have to pay for and to put off the insincere seekers, I have not read Drews blog but many of the ideas I have not found anywhere else, things like the law of octaves are very important to understand why certain things work out they way they do and why people so often fail at their spiritual practice, effectively many of the ideas are laws of the Tao yet I have never found them in any Chinese Taoist book.

 

The system appeals to me because I do agree with Gurdjieff that most of the eastern schools at least the Buddhist type ones are designed for a monks lifestyle which is not appropriate for me, perhaps Taoist approaches don't need to have such a monk approach bur I am still searching for what I would call a complete uncorrupted Taoist approach, Drew has said he more or less lives like a monk and you need many hours of full lotus every day to progress which is not possible for many modern people.

[Mokona]

It is hard to accurately gauge the level of someone and their system, there are energy masters in India who can do energy transmissions and high level healings but later get exposed as abusive and morally corrupt and get exposed as paedophiles etc which Gurdjieff would call an example of unbalanced development. So you may be able to become a high level healer and energy master and remain screwed up in other ways like your emotional maturity, which is why in the fourth way they stress the importance of work on all centres at once to try to avoid this. You see examples of this unbalanced development on this site with those who only focus on mind development and talk to each other endlessly like robots without heart connection.

 

As for Madame De Salzmann's level generally in her system there is not a lot of qi projection or healing but that is not the be all and end all of spirituality, the Zen master Roshi Kobori said that she was "the most remarkable woman I have ever met" because she studied a method of develoment of every part of her being, apparently she was still climbing mountains when she was in her 90s.

 

Sounds like a badass - I hope i'm still climbing mountains in my 90s! Strange though, I thought it was chi development that helped with physical tasks like that, she must have just been very physically fit.

[taooneusa]

In Beelzebubs Tales Gurdjief finds a box of buried bottles label Elixer of life.

In the book he buys a property after a car accident. If I recall the property

was a former Essene ground and states having a distinct impression that

the monks had buried the bottle knowing he would be there so many years

Later. He also credits the elixer for being what enabled him to finish his work..

-Search for the Miraculous Ouspenky describes Gurdjeifs first "awakening"

when their first group spontaneously formed/awakened after seeing a statue

that contained all the knowledge in its geometry of the civilization that created it.

Edited December 29, 2011 by taooneusa

[Jetsun]

his alchemy is exactly the same as the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality." I've written a couple articles on this. http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/259-How-Qigong-or-Taoist-Yoga-Explains-Gurdjieff.html

 

Weird, I was just reading your articles for what I thought was the first time until I read the comments and realised that I left a comment on it in 2009!