Refining Qi to Shen

[konchog uma]

You lost me at "mud pill" x.x

 

 

its a name for the point at the center of the upper dan tian, the yin within yang. i guess it would sit right in the middle of the diencephalon, at the bottom of the corpus callosum.

[konchog uma]

Speaking about this is pointless...it can be experienced.

 

Just some things to ponder, based on my experiences...I don't claim to actually know what I'm talking about, thankfully.

 

you don't have the have the one official answer, i am going to talk to my teachers about it, so its okay. i RReally appreciate what you have to say, and it resonates as very useful. Thank you Scotty!

 

talking about it is not pointless btw, even if its just a finger pointing to something, it still guides the way. If we didn't need to talk about stuff i guess we wouldn't!!

 

I look forward to visualizing an anthropomorphic representation of my shen btw!! awesome

 

[Birch]

Scott...

 

 

"I don't know what I'm talking about".

 

Hahaha.

 

Anyway, that was very good!

 

Any ideas on what to do after that point?

[konchog uma]

Any ideas on what to do after that point?

 

hahaha practice!

 

traditionally, the next step in the alchemy is refining shen to emptiness

 

then refining emtiness to dao, or as the beloved Dr Yang likes to put it, "crushing the emptiness!"

 

when i sit in emptiness sitting, i think of it as refining, because i like to think to myself "what is more subtle than emptiness?" instead of "lets CRUSH this emptiness!!"

 

but thats just me

[Birch]

"Crushing emptiness"???

 

What does that refer to? If I had to guess, I'd say it refers to a re-do of yourself, aka a re-condensation to form (which BTW fits nicely with your teacher's analogy of water being the same 'stuff' in all states and my condensed milk analogy that I have trotted out for the occasion). A 'return' to jing?

 

Tao doesn't bother incarnating (or giving birth to 10, 000 things) just to annoy herself, does she??

 

I thought it was 'shattering the void'.

[konchog uma]

"Crushing emptiness"???

 

What does that refer to? If I had to guess, I'd say it refers to a re-do of yourself, aka a re-condensation to form (which BTW fits nicely with your teacher's analogy of water being the same 'stuff' in all states and my condensed milk analogy that I have trotted out for the occasion). A 'return' to jing?

 

Tao doesn't bother incarnating (or giving birth to 10, 000 things) just to annoy herself, does she??

 

I thought it was 'shattering the void'.

 

shattering the void and crushing the emptiness might be translations of the same line.. its a classic daoist neidan line. As to exactly why they phrased it like that, i am not sure. Perhaps in an attempt to stop internalists from dwelling in the bliss of emptiness and not progressing further into union with dao. Maybe they mean do away with the concept of emptiness or void. That is my best guess. At all times, I, like Scotty, have no idea what i am talking about either.

 

as to what it refers to, i think it means going beyond the beyond and letting the sublime source of things fill the emptiness. But like so many, i can not speak about merging with the dao because i have not done that yet.

 

Hahahah an aside: i remember hearing about a talk daoist master Hua Ching Ni gave during which a young kid in his early twenties asked him "since i have joined with the way, what do i do now?" to which master Ni replied "stop masturbating!"

[Birch]

Ooh! it's like "Kill the Buddha"?

 

Right, so once you've acknowledged your continuity and non-separation with Dao and you've gone 'wow this is awesome' (if prior to that you had not thought it was awesome already) then you, you, er, go about your ways as a 10,000 thing again while knowing you and the Dao and the other 10,000 things are continuous with each other. Something like that?

[konchog uma]

Ooh! it's like "Kill the Buddha"?

 

Right, so once you've acknowledged your continuity and non-separation with Dao and you've gone 'wow this is awesome' (if prior to that you had not thought it was awesome already) then you, you, er, go about your ways as a 10,000 thing again while knowing you and the Dao and the other 10,000 things are continuous with each other. Something like that?

 

well there is a lot of practice in between each stage, and it is not so much a psychological exercise, or way of looking at things, it is an actual alchemy of self. So when the spirit merges with the dao, a person begins to become one with the way, and when they have, they are a different person than when they were not merged. Their mind might open to omnisciently know things that pertain to them, or what they were wondering about.. celestial masters might start talking to them... knowledge of what a plant was for, medicinally, might come to that person when they touched the plant... it is, i am sure, different for everyone according to their nature. Its less an acknowledgement and more a change of person and self that takes place. Like the energy i had before i opened the circuits that allow my jing to become qi is quantitatively and qualitatively different than the energy i have now.

[Birch]

That's pretty awesome!

[konchog uma]

Hi anamatva. Forgive me if you have mentioned this elsewhere, as I see you have been sharing a lot of your progress lately. What circuits have you opened up? And how do you understand jing? Lastly, how do you experience your dantiens, esp the lower?

 

i think of jing as the physical life essence which is kidneys/marrow/semen/cerebrospinal fluid in short. I know its more, like hormones etc, and that some people think of the whole physical being as jing, but i just think of it as the concentrated essence if that answers your question.

 

when i say i have opened my circuits, i say that because i don't have to do meditations or use effort to guide excess semen up my spine, or into my dan tian, anymore. It just happens naturally. I don't get blueballs. The day after sex is an awesome energy day, not an "oh god WHY won't i just masturbate?!" day.. .. So i consider that work more or less done.

 

my lower is pretty alive. it hums and buzzes when its full. I have found the yang point in the middle of it, and can rotate it or stop it at will. I breathe with it constantly, without effort or intention, although i do not incorporate the perineum into each and every breath. So i am still working on deeping my breath but i have been a natural belly breather for years, which i find enables my energy flow, and the jing to qi alchemy. My middle dantian, is something that i can point to, right there behind my heart, but as to my experience of it, i have not worked with it, so i don't really have a lot of time logged with it. My teachers agree its a reservoir of feelings, so in that way i can say "oh sure i have one of those right there" and i guess thats why they say "my heart is lonely" or "happy in my heart" etc. I can relate to all that with personal experience so i guess that is the MDT. My upper, i have even less experience with. I regularly charge my 3 dan tians by imagining them soaking up white, radiant qi from all around. When i relate to heaven qi, i get feelings in my UDT (like LDT for earth qi). I hope that answers your question.

 

are you just curious? are you wondering if i have actually done these things i say i have, or have mistaken the mark? or is this going somewhere? it doesnt have to mind you, im just curious...

[konchog uma]

Yes, just curious. Many thanks for your response. I suspect you have a good teacher (as you have shared) and don't need to bother too much with books.

 

Best to you on your path.

 

thank you very much, if you remember, you helped me find my qigong teacher. So thank you very much for that as well.

 

Best to you Rainbow Vein.

[konchog uma]

I visited my meditation teacher, and was able to get some technique and advice regarding the MDT alchemy. I do not want to post it here because i do not feel qualified to share the information, and because i didn't ask him if i should tell it to other people. We only got to meet for about 40 minutes. Sometimes he says "don't teach this to people" not cause he's a secretive teacher, but because i am not qualified to teach something i just learned and some things are dangerous when improperly taught.

 

With the MDT alchemy, he said be careful bringing energy to the heart, first calm the mind by focusing on tranquility, and dont bring too much energy at once, because the physical heart doesnt like too much energy there. So if people are going with the idea that the alchemy happens somewhat naturally, like thats sort of just what the MDT does, and you are trying some things with this at home, i will pass on that word of caution. He agrees with that idea by the way. So those ideas about just bringing energy to the MDT and letting it get more subtle is the core of what i learned today. I will also say that he says when you get it right, it feels like a fresh bubbling spring, or like a nice calm refreshing feeling in the heart, and to let that spread throughout the body, dont circulate it in channels or keep it in one place, "throw it in all directions like a kid throwing glitter and let it go a little outside the skin".

 

On the one hand, i am sorry to hold back information from you if you are also interested in this alchemy. But if you are knowledgable enough about inner alchemy to refine your qi to shen, you are knowledgable enough to know why i'm not going to say more than i should about it. I can only say the things that i am comfortable saying.

 

He said that shen is the key to doing crazy things like walking on burning coals and sitting underwater for long periods of time. I have mentioned that i have seen him shapeshift, and he said that is shen. He said shen doesnt have a channel system its more everywhere, and should be like a field that can guide and corral the qi. He also said you can visualize shen, like a gossamer light, and that he likes gold, but everyone is different, he felt that out for himself, he wasn't taught that. He says yeah its the same stuff as qi, just a different phase state. He said consciousness is the yi/xin (mind) and shen (spirit) as one. And thats about all, hope it helps you all out.

[gendao]

I visited my meditation teacher, and was able to get some technique and advice regarding the MDT alchemy. I do not want to post it here because i do not feel qualified to share the information, and because i didn't ask him if i should tell it to other people. We only got to meet for about 40 minutes. Sometimes he says "don't teach this to people" not cause he's a secretive teacher, but because i am not qualified to teach something i just learned and some things are dangerous when improperly taught.

 

With the MDT alchemy, he said be careful bringing energy to the heart, first calm the mind by focusing on tranquility, and dont bring too much energy at once, because the physical heart doesnt like too much energy there. So if people are going with the idea that the alchemy happens somewhat naturally, like thats sort of just what the MDT does, and you are trying some things with this at home, i will pass on that word of caution. He agrees with that idea by the way. So those ideas about just bringing energy to the MDT and letting it get more subtle is the core of what i learned today. I will also say that he says when you get it right, it feels like a fresh bubbling spring, or like a nice calm refreshing feeling in the heart, and to let that spread throughout the body, dont circulate it in channels or keep it in one place, "throw it in all directions like a kid throwing glitter and let it go a little outside the skin".

 

On the one hand, i am sorry to hold back information from you if you are also interested in this alchemy. But if you are knowledgable enough about inner alchemy to refine your qi to shen, you are knowledgable enough to know why i'm not going to say more than i should about it. I can only say the things that i am comfortable saying.

 

He said that shen is the key to doing crazy things like walking on burning coals and sitting underwater for long periods of time. I have mentioned that i have seen him shapeshift, and he said that is shen. He said shen doesnt have a channel system its more everywhere, and should be like a field that can guide and corral the qi. He also said you can visualize shen, like a gossamer light, and that he likes gold, but everyone is different, he felt that out for himself, he wasn't taught that. He says yeah its the same stuff as qi, just a different phase state. He said consciousness is the yi/xin (mind) and shen (spirit) as one. And thats about all, hope it helps you all out.

Fascinating! That last line alone was worth gold!

 

What did you see him shapeshift to, btw?

[konchog uma]

Fascinating! That last line alone was worth gold!

 

What did you see him shapeshift to, btw?

 

just another person that didn't look anything like him. He didn't actually shapeshift, its called false shadow or double shadow. Its ninja magic to throw an illusory appearance out to deceive observers. Theres a world of difference between it and shapeshifting proper. So i used the term shapeshifting in an incorrect way. Its just easier than saying false shadow cause nobody knows what that is except ninja.

[gendao]

just another person that didn't look anything like him. He didn't actually shapeshift, its called false shadow or double shadow. Its ninja magic to throw an illusory appearance out to deceive observers. Theres a world of difference between it and shapeshifting proper. So i used the term shapeshifting in an incorrect way. Its just easier than saying false shadow cause nobody knows what that is except ninja.

Fascinating! I don't know what all you can disclose about your master, but what level is his own attainment (opened microcosmic orbit, macrocosmic, orbit, etc?) and what school or style does he teach? Is it more neidan or a martial art? Etc?

[Aetherous]

Sweet, thanks for sharing what you could. He is knowledgeable.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

So that sort of harmonious bliss feeling spreading through the body that people sometimes get with sitting meditation, would you say that is Shen? Something else maybe?

[konchog uma]

Fascinating! I don't know what all you can disclose about your master, but what level is his own attainment (opened microcosmic orbit, macrocosmic, orbit, etc?) and what school or style does he teach? Is it more neidan or a martial art? Etc?

 

He achieved 10th dan in kogaru ninjitsu. It is a mix of internal and external. his orbits are open. He doesn't teach.

 

when i say its a mix, the koga ninja believed in incorporating everything they came in contact with, and refining and perfecting it and fitting it into their system. So while it is distinctly japanese in flavor, it varies to encompass indian, chinese, himalayan, and more different kinds of exercises and ways of working with energy. Also survival skills, martial skills, weapon skills, etc.

[konchog uma]

Sweet, thanks for sharing what you could. He is knowledgeable.

 

You're most welcome.

[konchog uma]

So that sort of harmonious bliss feeling spreading through the body that people sometimes get with sitting meditation, would you say that is Shen? Something else maybe?

 

i guess it COULD be shen. Thats a hard question to answer because it could be other things too.

[deci belle]

[Jeff]

[hagar]

I visited my meditation teacher, and was able to get some technique and advice regarding the MDT alchemy. I do not want to post it here because i do not feel qualified to share the information, and because i didn't ask him if i should tell it to other people. We only got to meet for about 40 minutes. Sometimes he says "don't teach this to people" not cause he's a secretive teacher, but because i am not qualified to teach something i just learned and some things are dangerous when improperly taught.

 

With the MDT alchemy, he said be careful bringing energy to the heart, first calm the mind by focusing on tranquility, and dont bring too much energy at once, because the physical heart doesnt like too much energy there. So if people are going with the idea that the alchemy happens somewhat naturally, like thats sort of just what the MDT does, and you are trying some things with this at home, i will pass on that word of caution. He agrees with that idea by the way. So those ideas about just bringing energy to the MDT and letting it get more subtle is the core of what i learned today. I will also say that he says when you get it right, it feels like a fresh bubbling spring, or like a nice calm refreshing feeling in the heart, and to let that spread throughout the body, dont circulate it in channels or keep it in one place, "throw it in all directions like a kid throwing glitter and let it go a little outside the skin".

 

On the one hand, i am sorry to hold back information from you if you are also interested in this alchemy. But if you are knowledgable enough about inner alchemy to refine your qi to shen, you are knowledgable enough to know why i'm not going to say more than i should about it. I can only say the things that i am comfortable saying.

 

He said that shen is the key to doing crazy things like walking on burning coals and sitting underwater for long periods of time. I have mentioned that i have seen him shapeshift, and he said that is shen. He said shen doesnt have a channel system its more everywhere, and should be like a field that can guide and corral the qi. He also said you can visualize shen, like a gossamer light, and that he likes gold, but everyone is different, he felt that out for himself, he wasn't taught that. He says yeah its the same stuff as qi, just a different phase state. He said consciousness is the yi/xin (mind) and shen (spirit) as one. And thats about all, hope it helps you all out.

 

This corresponds somewhat to what my master teaches.

 

In addition to the concept of Shen which is the essential light of the body that infuses the material aspect with "life", in the sense of being attacted to it. Mental illness, for example, is demaracted with a dispersal of the Shen, so that it is not allowed back into the system, and instead is located out of the body, and is leaking constantly, causing additional problems and decay.

 

So any kind of dis-embodiment, dis-association, dis-empowerment, and even ordinary dis-ease is actually a blocking of the light from re-entering the body, or a dispersal of the light so that it is disintegrated. Any real healing from a master is done on the Shen level, working with cleaning the space and uniting the scattered shen back into the body almost like pulling a kite back to it's owner.

 

h

Edited December 1, 2011 by hagar

[Informer]

Hi anamatva,

 

I was wondering you you recieved the book and what you think so far, if you have read some of it?

[konchog uma]

Hi anamatva,

 

I was wondering you you recieved the book and what you think so far, if you have read some of it?

 

i thought it might arrive today, but it did not. I expect it tomorrow or soon