The Pagan Christ

[Immortal4life]

Here is a documentary by the CBC exploring the similarities between Christianity, Pagan traditions, and the ancient Egyptian religion. Also explored is the theory that Christianity evolved out of the ancient Egyptian religion, and the controversial theory that Jesus did not actually exist.

The Pagan Christ-

Edited January 18, 2013 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

Here is the book version-

http://www.tomharpur.com/books/books_thepaganchrist.asp

 

Reaction by Tom Harpur-

http://www.tomharpur.com/books/books_responsetotpc.asp

 

CBC-

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/doczone/2008/paganchrist/

[Birch]

Controversial?

I don't know if Jesus existed or not. I know there are some stories about a man with that name.

The way I've been reading some of the stories - including the Egyptian stuff is as an alchemical allegory. Check out dung beetle references in the TSOTGF and the Egyptian frescoes in one of those pyramid documentaries you posted.

[michael245]

I'm with the zeitgeist movement on this one.To me they look like archetypes of the sun and nothing more.

Edited November 29, 2011 by michael245

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I think that Jesus, Lao Tzu, and Buddha exist in spirit, regardless of history or who wrote what in their names. They may have existed as people or many many times as people. I know that the lessons they taught are true, and I know that powerful shamanism is true. They may just serve as focal points for those who wish to embody this spirit in themselves, or learn from it directly. I see no issue there. Religious authority is something else, but even to say that they don't exist is false, imo, since they do exist at least at another dimension, if not having existed in person on earth. The stories are mostly stories, probably, but the lessons behind them are true, and the spirit(s) of the teachers exists.

 

The Jesus of the Dead Sea Scrolls, of the Assines, is quite different from the Biblical Jesus, but I think he may have been the spiritual leader who became mythologized in The New Testament. His shamanic knowledge was learned through Assine traditions, and also involved herbs and a form of Reiki. There are many people like this, but not many who go up against the system. Jesus of the Assines may have done so, and so became mythologized in order to co-opt the all the beliefs of ancient Rome and Greece into one religion. Just because the myths are borrowed doesn't mean the person never existed or taught. I think plenty of people like them have existed, so to say that one could not have existed because the myths were borrowed doesn't make too much sense, imo.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Immortal4life]

Absolutely, I see the historical Jesus much more as the Essene Teacher of Righteousness, and the Jesus of the bible more as a story and myth.

[michael245]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

[michael245]

Check the write up and comments here: http://menachemmendel.net/blog/2009/03/12/rachel-elior-on-the-essenes-that-never-existed/

 

seems Elior's work is based on "sounds like this" speculation and then draws her conclusion without considering everything, even rebutting her critics with "read the scrolls, it's in there" rather than providing proof of her theory. Her speculation appears to be no more than a possibility spoken loudly enough to give her some controversial press.

 

"Every story sounds true until you hear the other side." These scholars have even more critics. I think they have an agenda. They're so quick to speculate that the Essenes were made up instead by another group at the time... while they argue the Old Testament and Proverbs of King Solomon which is like a word for word lift of Egyptian texts itself...

 

 

Well,also the Yahweh/Noah fairy tale compares to the Zuess/Deucalion fairy tale.

 

Here's a Deucalion story from wikepedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deucalion

 

The evil god yahweh is just a symbol too,nothing literal.

Edited November 29, 2011 by michael245

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

It's not that controversial. There is no evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus.

[Immortal4life]

It's not that controversial. There is no evidence for the existence of a historical Jesus.

 

There are the letters of Paul.

 

A majority of scholars still believe Jesus was an historical person. It is a controversial theory held by a smaller minority of scholars.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Immortal4life

[michael245]

There are the letters of Paul.

 

A majority of scholars still believe Jesus was an historical person. It is a controversial theory held by a smaller minority of scholars.

 

Paul's letters are a hoax.Jesus is just a symbol of the sun just like the other sun dieties.Yahweh is a symbol of blindness in humans.

Edited November 29, 2011 by michael245

[Harmonious Emptiness]

edit

Edited November 29, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[John Zen]

The videos do not work for me. It says that Copyright Laws have blocked the videos in my country

[Shizukanako]

I would have to think Jesus was real. It would seem kind of odd for all the Disciples to endure agonizing deaths (with the exception of John) for someone that they fabricated. Unless you are suggesting that they were fabricated as well.

[michael245]

I would have to think Jesus was real. It would seem kind of odd for all the Disciples to endure agonizing deaths (with the exception of John) for someone that they fabricated. Unless you are suggesting that they were fabricated as well.

 

 

 

.Yes,I know for a fact that the new testament is a big hoax.

Here's Bill Maher MIN 4:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYj4HPudCk

[Immortal4life]

The videos do not work for me. It says that Copyright Laws have blocked the videos in my country

 

How about this one?

 

[michael245]

Just for the record,I do believe the buddah and Lao tzu are historical people.And, I do notice some historical people when they die, get mythologies added after they die which are symbolic.However,the dying and resurrecting demi god story compares TOO much to other previous dieties.

[Immortal4life]

I don't see why you would not accept Jesus as historical then too.

[michael245]

Immortal,I'm not going to answer your christian minded questions.I provided the evidence.I'm quite surprised that I'm getting burned at the stakes on a tao forum.

Edited December 2, 2011 by michael245

[John Zen]

How about this one?

 

 

Nope. Still blocked in my country. Thanks for the effort.

[Immortal4life]

Nope. Still blocked in my country. Thanks for the effort.

 

Perhaps try non-youtube video sites then....

 

how about this?

 

Or-

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v171338519z8pfNYe

[John Zen]

Daily Motion worked. Thank you.

[Mark Foote]

[michael245]

"The Gospel According to Thomas" is an amazing book, I think. There are statements in there that echo other teachers around the world, but stated in a very unique way. There was someone who was an amazing teacher, I'm sure of that. Here's a favorite:

 

They said to Him: Shall we then, being children,

enter the Kingdom? Jesus said to them:

When you make the two one, and

when you make the inner as the outer

and the outer as the inner and the above

as the below, and when

you make the male and the female into a single one,

so that the male will not be male and

the female (not) be female, when you make

eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand

in the place of a hand, and a foot in the place

of a foot, (and) an image in the place of an image,

then shall you enter [the Kingdom].

 

(The Gospel According to Thomas, coptic text established and translated by A. Guillaumont, H.-CH. Puech, G. Quispel, W. Till and Yassah ‘Abd Al Masih, pg 18-19 log. 22, ©1959 E. J. Brill)

 

I attempt an explanation, here: From the Gospel of Thomas

 

 

 

Mark,this doesn't qualify as historical evidence.I can write some scriptures right now with my own mythologies about santa clause,travel to the dessert,hide the scriptures in a cave.Then, a thousand years from now some crack head, heroin junkie will find my scriptures in the cave,translate them and start some weird santa clause religion.

Edited December 3, 2011 by michael245