Reaching no thought

[Everything]

I've done this mantra meditation, where I used a nonsense word like ga-ring. Breathing in, ga, breathing out, ring. Focusing on breath and the sound of the word in my mind. Constantly. This lead to senselessness in my body. I heared nothing and felt not my body. As soon as I stopped the mantra l, thoughts would flood my mind and the 5 senses came back to life. Instantly. It is like this universe was not here a sec ago and now it is. So this is a trick to manipulate your mind into stillness, for short term effect. So that you are pointed at the right direction.

 

I noticed how to reach much deeper states of mind, we cannot depend on a mantra for ever. Have to throw it away if it gave you what it could. The mantra is a battle with your mind, intending no thought, your mind thinks about having no thought. So instead, I tried the approach Osho. I came across an article of his on google. It adviced to observe your thoughts impartially. Then they will dissapear and come back. Just like in the mantra meditation. But this approach would actually go deeper according to Osho. Each time you reach no thought, the no thought becomes longer and longer.

 

I have a problem though. I can't even observe my thoughts to begin with! Very confusing. As soon as I listen and hear, I no longer hear them. I just hear noises from my ear, like cars or wind or trees or birds, etc. Sometimes I just think, then I do have thoughts, but I cannot observe them! When I think, I try to recall what I thought one second ago, and all thoughts dissapear again when I go into observing mode. They don't go away, but I just loose my ability to observe my thoughts and be conscious of them when I intent too. When I don't intent to observe thoughts, I have thoughts again, but am no longer conscious of them, can nonlonger observe it. Sometimes I do remember a few thoughts I have as I go in thinking. Its hard to explain all this. I'm sure im using wrong metaphors here.

 

Hope you can try and relate to this in some way. Don't take it too literally what I say to communicate this and feel free to give me advice from your personal experience.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Everything

[joeblast]

when focus happens, random thoughts are much less likely to manifest. The way I got to no-thought was partially through non-attachment to thoughts (let the come and go) and plenty of mindful breathing with the focus on executing a perfect breath for the present level of body state - harmonious, soft, long, but not so long as to induce any hypoxia over many breaths. Muscle memory kicks in after a good amount of training, awareness starts watching awareness

[Informer]

No thought is good, although the words used to banish other words is still a word.

 

Have you tried (no-thought) + (no-seeing) ? A lot of focus is still towards the eyes without no-thought, but it seems even stronger when I am not delving into the chaotic aether of the mind. To remedy this, I retract the focus from the eyes to third eye then down to heart or w/e is being practiced.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Informer

[konchog uma]

you're right mantra doesnt get rid of thoughts, just replaces them.

 

it takes time to achieve no thought, but its time well spent. I like to imagine that my mind is the sky and that thoughts and thoughtforms, when they arise, are clouds. I just let the wind take them away until the sky is clear again, and then i sit in the emptiness of space and awareness, a clear sky full of light. If you do that meditation with sincerity your thoughts will diminish over time, and your awareness will increase.

 

also, don't get lost trying to imagine a sun and scenery, those are thought forms. just imagine the emptiness of space, and your thoughts become clouds. thats all.

[Everything]

No thought is good, although the words used to banish other words is still a word.

 

Have you tried (no-thought) + (no-seeing) ? A lot of focus is still towards the eyes without no-thought, but it seems even stronger when I am not delving into the chaotic aether of the mind. To remedy this, I retract the focus from the eyes to third eye then down to heart or w/e is being practiced.

Yeah, I noticed that wether I close or open my eyes, my mind is still focused on vision as I try to observe my thoughts. So I try to loose awareness of vision, then I succeed, but I loose consciousness over thoughts too. It sux.

[Everything]

you're right mantra doesnt get rid of thoughts, just replaces them.

 

it takes time to achieve no thought, but its time well spent. I like to imagine that my mind is the sky and that thoughts and thoughtforms, when they arise, are clouds. I just let the wind take them away until the sky is clear again, and then i sit in the emptiness of space and awareness, a clear sky full of light. If you do that meditation with sincerity your thoughts will diminish over time, and your awareness will increase.

 

also, don't get lost trying to imagine a sun and scenery, those are thought forms. just imagine the emptiness of space, and your thoughts become clouds. thats all.

A thought is not a sound always right? Sometimes the sound in my mind mean nothing, not even a word. Sounds like sound. hehe. What is ment with thought. Is it all minds activity or just the one that are related to words?

 

I feel that I become lost in the ocean of thoughts when I consider a thought to be every activity of the mind. So much going on at the same time. I find it hard to not get focused on a specific type of thought as I'm trying to observe. Or I mean, I find it hard to observe them all at the same time. Just like in a fugue, we tend to loose focus of other voices as we listen to one and we tend to switch focus from one voice to the next as we try to listen to them all at the same time. I get distracted by one specific type of thought all the time and loose track of the greater whole.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Everything

[Ish]

This is my experience.

Once you go deep enough into mantra it naturally dissolves and you are just left in the concentration states. For me there is no question of thoughts here, they just don't arise.

Of course there are many levels of concentration.

 

Here's an interesting video on this master's path - not my area of practice but nonetheless interesting.

[Informer]

A thought is not a sound always right? Sometimes the sound in my mind mean nothing, not even a word. Sounds like sound. hehe. What is ment with thought. Is it all minds activity or just the one that are related to words?

 

I feel that I become lost in the ocean of thoughts when I consider a thought to be every activity of the mind. So much going on at the same time. I find it hard to not get focused on a specific type of thought as I'm trying to observe. Or I mean, I find it hard to observe them all at the same time. Just like in a fugue, we tend to loose focus of other voices as we listen to one and we tend to switch focus from one voice to the next as we try to listen to them all at the same time. I get distracted by one specific type of thought all the time and loose track of the greater whole.

 

It sounds like you are limiting observation to include only that which is without, shifting to encompass that which is within is the goal I think. It's like you have so much power within at any given moment, so you want to re-route as much of that power as you can to a single aspect that is within. This strengthens that aspect and paves a path towards other's, which may eventually multi-tasked to encompass each one fully in the same moment.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Informer

[Everything]

It sounds like you are limiting observation to include only that which is without, shifting to encompass that which is within is the goal I think. It's like you have so much power within at any given moment, so you want to re-route as much of that power as you can to a single aspect that is within. This strengthens that aspect and paves a path towards other's, which may eventually multi-tasked to encompass each one fully in the same moment.

You mean observing thoughts is not focusing within?

[Everything]

This is my experience.

Once you go deep enough into mantra it naturally dissolves and you are just left in the concentration states. For me there is no question of thoughts here, they just don't arise.

Of course there are many levels of concentration.

 

Here's an interesting video on this master's path - not my area of practice but nonetheless interesting.

Aaww, can't understand the video.

[Informer]

You mean observing thoughts is not focusing within?

 

It depends if the thought are influenced externally. If the only thoughts being observed are about that which is without. Have you tried to "observe" the heart center or pineal gland, then articulate the observation?

Edited November 28, 2011 by Informer

[Informer]

Things that appear to be without are not necessarily without, they are just evidence of a given perspective dualistic in nature.

[konchog uma]

A thought is not a sound always right? Sometimes the sound in my mind mean nothing, not even a word. Sounds like sound. hehe. What is ment with thought. Is it all minds activity or just the one that are related to words?

 

I feel that I become lost in the ocean of thoughts when I consider a thought to be every activity of the mind. So much going on at the same time. I find it hard to not get focused on a specific type of thought as I'm trying to observe. Or I mean, I find it hard to observe them all at the same time. Just like in a fugue, we tend to loose focus of other voices as we listen to one and we tend to switch focus from one voice to the next as we try to listen to them all at the same time. I get distracted by one specific type of thought all the time and loose track of the greater whole.

 

yeah, you have a lot going on up there.

 

just sit with that technique and try it. Its not something to talk about. Just do it.

 

to your question, a thought can be nonverbal, but thats semantic. It is also why i said "thoughts and thoughtforms". Don't get caught up in semantics, that is the very thing you are trying to deal with. Sit and try the technique. Or another technique. Just sit. The thoughts go away, but you can't think them away. You have to sit.

[Ish]

Aaww, can't understand the video.

 

Oh lol, neither can i.

Just click on the video again after you press play and it will take you to the vid on youtube, there's subtitles on it then.

Definitely worth a watch.

 

EDIT: Just realised there are subtitles on the embedded vid there. no need to go to youtube.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Ish

[Everything]

It depends if the thought are influenced externally. If the only thoughts being observed are about that which is without. Have you tried to "observe" the heart center or pineal gland, then articulate the observation?

No, I never really tried to focus on a body part. Is it similar to mantra meditation?

[Everything]

yeah, you have a lot going on up there.

 

just sit with that technique and try it. Its not something to talk about. Just do it.

 

to your question, a thought can be nonverbal, but thats semantic. It is also why i said "thoughts and thoughtforms". Don't get caught up in semantics, that is the very thing you are trying to deal with. Sit and try the technique. Or another technique. Just sit. The thoughts go away, but you can't think them away. You have to sit.

Yeah, I know this. Trying to think them away creates more thought. Trying to observe the thoughts without interfering, thats my goal. I guess you're right though. This excersize doesn't get more personal.

[Everything]

Oh lol, neither can i.

Just click on the video again after you press play and it will take you to the vid on youtube, there's subtitles on it then.

Definitely worth a watch.

 

EDIT: Just realised there are subtitles on the embedded vid there. no need to go to youtube.

Oh cool, I should try watching it on my netbook. My smartphone doesn't support sibtitles maybe.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Everything

[tumoessence]

I just found this which I have found to be very helpful immediately.

matrika