Going home to Buddhism

[Encephalon]

After a little over three years of studying Taoism on my own, starting a nei kung practice and shifting my meditation practice from simple zazen to Taoist meditation, I feel solid in reaffirming my commitment to Buddhist practice. I still feel that Taoist cultivation methods are necessary for me for staying healthy and balanced and I have found them to be more healing than the many years of mind training that zazen afforded. That makes sense, since I'm really just another alcoholic that needs a somatic practice to get the insanity under control.

 

But over the 3 decades of studying Buddhism I've managed to find author/practitioners who have shown me how to connect my Buddhist practice with virtually every other realm of my life: Buddhist psychology; work with addiction and recovery; environmentalism; peace and social justice; geography and global studies; meditation; parenthood.

 

I've come to realize that the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path, the Three Treasures and the Precepts possess more than enough depth to keep me progressing on the Path in a way that's easy to organize intellectually. I'm not shutting the door on Taoism of course, but I feel that at my age it's time to deepen my practice rather than broadening my perspective.

 

The nei kung and the Taoist meditation practice are the healthiest things I have ever commenced, and I feel that Buddhism without a somatic element is incomplete. But for me, I am temperamentally suited to agnostic Buddhist thought and psychology. I've found my balance.

[deci belle]

Hurray!!❤

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Sounds right to me!

[Marblehead]

... but I feel that at my age it's time to deepen my practice rather than broadening my perspective.

 

There is a lot of truth in that for me too.

[lifeforce]

I feel solid in reaffirming my commitment to Buddhist practice. I still feel that Taoist cultivation methods are necessary for me for staying healthy and balanced and I have found them to be more healing than the many years of mind training that zazen afforded.

 

 

.....I am temperamentally suited to agnostic Buddhist thought and psychology. I've found my balance.

 

I have been going through a bit of this recently. I feel that the Buddhist way is gnawing away at me, but I still have some reservations. For instance, how relevant are the teachings to me, as a father, husband, not willing to give up my lifestyle, but still seeking spiritual fulfillment. I'm basically trying to fit a Buddhist system around my life, if that is possible.

I've mentioned elsewhere about the books I've read which seem to contradict each other with alarming regularity. Also about the giving up of desires and emotions, which, to me seems impossible.

I'm not big on orthodoxy, sectarianism or guru worship, I feel I need to do this on my own, although I will ask for help and guidance from more experienced folks.

You seem to have a good idea where you're at and where you're going. I only wish I was at that point. I seem a little confused right now, but I'm sure there is a Buddhist way for me, somewhere.

I'd be interested as to how you found your Way. That is if you don't mind. It may, or may not help me.

Thanks

Edited November 29, 2011 by lifeforce

[Encephalon]

I have been going through a bit of this recently. I feel that the Buddhist way is gnawing away at me, but I still have some reservations. For instance, how relevant are the teachings to me, as a father, husband, not willing to give up my lifestyle, but still seeking spiritual fulfillment. I'm basically trying to fit a Buddhist system around my life, if that is possible.

I've mentioned elsewhere about the books I've read which seem to contradict each other with alarming regularity. Also about the giving up of desires and emotions, which, to me seems impossible.

I'm not big on orthodoxy, sectarianism or guru worship, I feel I need to do this on my own, although I will ask for help and guidance from more experienced folks.

You seem to have a good idea where you're at and where you're going. I only wish I was at that point. I seem a little confused right now, but I'm sure there is a Buddhist way for me, somewhere.

I'd be interested as to how you found your Way. That is if you don't mind. It may, or may not help me.

Thanks

 

I'd be happy to share what I know. I should say first off that it took me about 3 decades for the teaching to have a real effect on my inner life. For most of that time, Buddhism offered me intellectual resonance and inspiration, but being a wallower in self-loathing, I failed to address the problem of Doubt, one of the Five Hindrances. I always thought that I was temperamentally unsuited to spiritual progress along this path. But intellectual resonance must be good for something, because I stuck with it on that level at least!

 

I jettisoned all my metaphysical notions, lost my "faith," and gradually drifted toward secular humanism about the time I started formal college, in my mid-30s (1995). By accident, a copy of "Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor, a countryman of yours, came across my radar, and by 2001 I was comfortably in the Buddhist fold, or sangha, as an agnostic Buddhist. I had also plunged deeply into critical thinking studies as an undergrad, and Batchelor's words just blew me out of the water. I suddenly realized I could have a spiritual life along Buddhist and humanist grounds that was consistent with the rest of my academic universe.

I would recommend BWB for all parents and spouses. It is a primer for buddhist practice in modern life.

 

 

I read that the introduction of Buddhism to the west was through the portal of psychology, as the dialogue mainly took place between Japanese Zen Buddhists and western psychologists and psychiatrists, and I chuckled when I read this because when I looked back at my own study history, Buddhist psychology was the main subject. As the number of western Buddhist scholars increased over the last couple of decades, I've examined the subject through the variety of fields that interest me that I listed in my opening post. I eventually went on to write my master's thesis in geography - "The Geography of Consumerism: A Buddhist Deconstruction of Los Angeles" -in part because I didn't have the stomach for more post-modern globalization studies! I found the Buddhist scholar David Loy - "A Buddhist History of the West" - to be my favorite author when it comes to the study of social theory and globalization studies.

 

Since I'm still just a struggling ex-drunk soaking in the addictive mire of consumer culture, I'm currently most interested in deepening my practice in light of my addictive impulses. Jack Kornfield - "The Wise Heart" remains my favorite all-time work on Buddhist psychology and deals specifically with how we transform the three poisons of greed, hatred, and delusion into the three pillars - generosity, compassion, and wisdom.

 

I can't emphasize enough that my Taoist meditation practice healed my psychic wounds more in three years than in the previous 15 years of Buddhist practice. so, I definitely need both.

 

Hope that helps.

Scott

 

PS - regarding desires and emotions...

I think much of my progress in impulse control may be due to the fact that I just crossed over into my 50s, but self-effacement aside, there is something to said for the eightfold path in reducing our vulnerability to various appetites.

 

As far as emotions go, I am more emotional now than I ever have been. I am deeply and easily moved by the slightest triggers, and have felt for the last two years at least that my nei kung practice was discharging mountains of grief; grief incurred over my own life, and the grief regarding our collective human plight in the midst of ecological suicide. But like Ken Wilber says, it hurts more but bothers me less. -

Edited November 29, 2011 by Encephalon

[lifeforce]

I'd be happy to share what I know. ......

 

I can't emphasize enough that my Taoist meditation practice healed my psychic wounds more in three years than in the previous 15 years of Buddhist practice. so, I definitely need both.

 

Hope that helps.

Scott

 

Thanks for that. It does help.

I think one of the things that put me off about certain aspects of Buddhism is the metaphysical. I'll certainly look into Batchelor. I've read some good things about him.

What kind of Taoist meditation did you practice ?

[Encephalon]

Thanks for that. It does help.

I think one of the things that put me off about certain aspects of Buddhism is the metaphysical. I'll certainly look into Batchelor. I've read some good things about him.

What kind of Taoist meditation did you practice ?

 

I'm totally immersed in the inner dissolving Water Method as detailed by Bruce Frantzis in Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body. Great, safe, fast, deep, blissed out!

[lifeforce]

I'm totally immersed in the inner dissolving Water Method as detailed by Bruce Frantzis in Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body. Great, safe, fast, deep, blissed out!

 

Thank you.

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Encephalon]

Didn't you also mention that your body was also beat up from all the heavy lifting?

 

Anyways, I remember reading from one of Nan Huai Chin's books that in order for the mind to reach "stillness" in meditation: It does actually depend on the health of the individual and if the chi is flowing smoothly. So if the person is unhealthy, out of balance or whatever, it affects the quality of an individual's meditation session. So successfully practicing samatha-vipasyana, depends if you are healthy and if the chi's flowing smoothly and whatnot. So it makes sense that the nei-kung really benefited you.

 

You do incorporate vipasyana (since this is a cornerstone in Buddhist meditation) into your practice right?

 

I just recently shared with another member that I am simply not qualified to assess which practice has been most beneficial, the nei kung or the Water Method of Taoist meditation, or a combo of both. I believe that running your energy through your gates and meridians as Frantzis describes is a mindfulness practice in itself, so I no longer practice any distinctly Buddhist meditation practice, nor do I believe that it is necessary for an agnostic Buddhist path.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Encephalon

[Creation]

I just recently shared with another member that I am simply not qualified to assess which practice has been most beneficial, the nei kung or the Water Method of Taoist meditation, or a combo of both. I believe that running your energy through your gates and meridians as Frantzis describes is a mindfulness practice in itself, so I no longer practice any distinctly Buddhist meditation practice, nor do I believe that it is necessary for an agnostic Buddhist path.

Hi Encephalon.

 

To what extent do you think you would have been successful at inner dissolving if you did not already have a strong feeling of qi developed through other practices?

[lifeforce]

I can't emphasize enough that my Taoist meditation practice healed my psychic wounds more in three years than in the previous 15 years of Buddhist practice....

 

Just going back again to the above sentence which I've been contemplating on since I read it.

I think it may have swung the pendulum back to a solely Taoist meditation practice for me.

Thanks.

Edited December 1, 2011 by lifeforce

[Encephalon]

Just going back again to the above sentence which I've been contemplating on since I read it.

I think it may have swung the pendulum back to a solely Taoist meditation practice for me.

Thanks.

 

I think it refers to what a millions of yogis chi kung masters throughout Asia have known for eons; changing your mind, using your mind, is a real bitch, especially for westerners, and one of the reasons why people in recovery from substnace abuse don't often make progress. But changing your mind using your body? That's an entirely different matter, and brings the somatic dimension into play.

 

Creation -

I'm sure the nei kung played a major role. Perhaps the three months that I played around with Gary Clyman's dvds had an impact. All I know is, Nei kung instruction for me here in LA is always a lesson in humility. I think I've got a posture down pat only to be told I'm doing little more than isometrics!

But I get my posture corrected by a degree or two and in five seconds the current begins to flow; the whole body becomes the "bubbling spring."

Edited December 2, 2011 by Encephalon

[Jetsun]

I think it refers to what a millions of yogis chi kung masters throughout Asia have known for eons; changing your mind, using your mind, is a real bitch, especially for westerners, and one of the reasons why people in recovery from substnace abuse don't often make progress. But changing your mind using your body? That's an entirely different matter, and brings the somatic dimension into play.

 

Good point, you have to keep in mind that most Buddhist practice was created for a people during a more simple era when people did a lot of manual work and farming so they were more naturally grounded in their bodies already so going to directly work with the mind is not so much a big issue, but for us in our modern age the mind is valued so highly and nearly all our education and work is mind based so we become top heavy with our identity and dissociated with our bodies, so the natural sequence for most of us is to go down and integrate the body before we work with the mind.

 

One thing Bruce Frantzis said which I liked is that he says that many of Taoist techniques are very appropriate for us modern Westerners because many of them were created for Imperial China which was quite an emotionally repressed time in history so there will be similarities in the blockages back then to now (at least here in the UK which is still quite emotionally repressed) so the techniques used to bring balance to the people of that era are relevant today.

[JustARandomPanda]

I can't emphasize enough that my Taoist meditation practice healed my psychic wounds more in three years than in the previous 15 years of Buddhist practice. so, I definitely need both.

 

Curiosity is getting to me Encephalon. I know it's a Buddhist thread but I'd really like to hear what your Taoist Meditation consists of and how it's different from a Buddhist one.

 

[Encephalon]

Curiosity is getting to me Encephalon. I know it's a Buddhist thread but I'd really like to hear what your Taoist Meditation consists of and how it's different from a Buddhist one.

 

 

The Water Method, as taught by B.K. Frantzis. The important value it has for me is that it can be used for mindfulness training just like zazen; when the mind wanders, you simply bring your attention back to the task of opening the energy gates, rather than the breath. A zen master I am not, but the process is so so captivating that I've been able to go a minute or two without thoughts interrupting the attention, and that's a lot for me.

 

I feel less and less inclined to describe the process because the more I go into the process the less I really know with any certainty. I am so grateful and humbled by the power of this technique that trying to discuss it seems like I'm cheapening the teaching.

 

"Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by Frantzis. Get your copy today!

[lifeforce]

The Water Method, as taught by B.K. Frantzis. ....

"Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by Frantzis. Get your copy today!

 

I've just received a copy of 'Relaxing Into Being - The Water Method Of Taoist Meditation Vol 1' by BK Frantzis, and it looks really good after a quick flip through. Lots of practical information and a very well structured meditation system.

This will hopefully compliment my neigong and standing practices and kick start my meditation which seems to have fallen away recently.

[Encephalon]

I've just received a copy of 'Relaxing Into Being - The Water Method Of Taoist Meditation Vol 1' by BK Frantzis, and it looks really good after a quick flip through. Lots of practical information and a very well structured meditation system.

This will hopefully compliment my neigong and standing practices and kick start my meditation which seems to have fallen away recently.

 

I suspect we'll both be getting volume II before 2012 is over. Vol. I only goes so far. The Energy Pathways detailed in the appendix really changed my energy pattern. Accurate maps are a good thing!

[Simple_Jack]

I just recently shared with another member that I am simply not qualified to assess which practice has been most beneficial, the nei kung or the Water Method of Taoist meditation, or a combo of both. I believe that running your energy through your gates and meridians as Frantzis describes is a mindfulness practice in itself, so I no longer practice any distinctly Buddhist meditation practice, nor do I believe that it is necessary for an agnostic Buddhist path.

That's all good man, but I meant contemplation based on the teachings of: Impermanence, dependent origination, abhidharma/abhidharma-kosa or based off of the Bahiya sutta...This is a good example of what I'm talking about:

 

http://www.chagchen.com/index.htm

 

This is Mahamudra style samatha-vipasyana (which is basically a systemization of the sutric teachings.) Skip the samatha (resting mind series) and look through the other series to see how vipasyana (based off of the teachings of Buddhism) can be applied. That is one of the most accessible links on Mahamudra, on the net.

[Encephalon]

That's all good man, but I meant contemplation based on the teachings of: Impermanence, dependent origination, abhidharma/abhidharma-kosa or based off of the Bahiya sutta...This is a good example of what I'm talking about:

 

http://www.chagchen.com/index.htm

 

This is Mahamudra style samatha-vipasyana (which is basically a systemization of the sutric teachings.) Skip the samatha (resting mind series) and look through the other series to see how vipasyana (based off of the teachings of Buddhism) can be applied. That is one of the most accessible links on Mahamudra, on the net.

 

Thanks for that. I am not a Tibetan Buddhist, but firmly in the humanist/agnostic camp of Stephen Batchelor. I also use Jack Kornfield and Ken Mcleod for meditation instruction.

[Simple_Jack]

.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[johndoe2012]

The Water Method is IMHO very close to Goenka vipassana.

 

So when scanning the body the objective is to see the three characteristics, impermanence, no-self and suffering.

 

Personally after having done neigong for some time, vipassana seems easier, ie. it is easier to sit for a longer time with a higher degree of concentration.

[Encephalon]

It's not about being a "Tibetan Buddhist." Mahamudra is basically a systemization of what's taught in the sutras (though I was using that as an example of what I was getting at.) Agnostic or not, it's about proving the teachings for yourself and not just having blind faith...Mahamudra is a good system for doing just that; is it necessary to study? No. Though it's good nonetheless.

 

I apologize if I inadvertantly made the case for blind faith. That was not my intention.