Lets Bat It Around Again-what Is Enlightenment

[thelerner]

We talk about enlightenment. But it means different things to different people. To some its a rarified state only found in a handful, that makes them saints or more. To others its a process, a style of awareness, that we all slip into and out of- seeing a rainbow or fireworks or good sex.

 

Is it function of psychology-such as the Nowness of Eckhardt Tolle? A function of higher inner energy, claimed by Professor Morris (Pathnotes..), a function of saintliness and grace?

 

Is enlightenment a goal to be pursued? If so is the path through God awareness and ego lessening? Is it through energetic practices that strengthen the body and redefine the spirit.

 

Or is it a bad goal. The tao is under our feet, in the air, the water we drink. There is nothing to find or do or study. Just acceptance and grace?

 

 

Michael

[Trunk]

What it is?

This, matured & fluent.

[sean]

It's not what you think it is.

[Smile]

I don't know if any one of us is qualified.. Certainly not me.

[thaddeus]

We talk about enlightenment. But it means different things to different people. To some its a rarified state only found in a handful, that makes them saints or more. To others its a process, a style of awareness, that we all slip into and out of- seeing a rainbow or fireworks or good sex.

 

Is it function of psychology-such as the Nowness of Eckhardt Tolle? A function of higher inner energy, claimed by Professor Morris (Pathnotes..), a function of saintliness and grace?

 

Is enlightenment a goal to be pursued? If so is the path through God awareness and ego lessening? Is it through energetic practices that strengthen the body and redefine the spirit.

 

Or is it a bad goal. The tao is under our feet, in the air, the water we drink. There is nothing to find or do or study. Just acceptance and grace?

Michael

not that..not that...

[Wayfarer64]

I hope it is different for each conscious being at each moment and is just waiting to be welcomed into our doors of perception... manifesting anywhere anytime for anyone. Or maybe we just realize the door is already open and get tickled pink by the fresh breeze...I have an inkling that it can be many things to many people. I sure hope so.

 

When I think of the potential for life on other worlds I wonder if we will even be able to recognize each other as sentient, much less enlightened.

 

There are so many ways to be alive, I sure hope that consciousness of our oneness in that web is enough to qualify. Namaste.

[Cameron]

I like David Twickens definition of Immortality. Realization and expression of your immortal spirit in every day life.

 

Adyashanti, my "enlightenment" teacher, would probably just say "stop" or something

[Leidee]

I don't know what enlightenment is.

 

I guess I don't really think about it much.

[Lozen]

I read in I think a Buddhist book once that anger is okay if expressed, and the only thing that's not okay is holding it in and acting fake sweet (funny cos that's what most Buddhists do, but I've been down that road before, lol...it was a Zen book and they're different!) and then I read in a Natalie Goldberg book about her Zen master and how, when they were having a fundraiser, with donors, and it was time for him to speak, he ignored all the looks and all of his students shaking their heads and started right where he had left off with his teaches, saying something like, "We are all going to die." Tons of people left and nobody donated money.

 

I remember being confused reading that because one would think that enlightenment would involve not only acting authentically and being in the moment, but having your actions reflect reality and be appropriate to the situation.

 

I've heard "no attachment" but even that... I've gotten glimpses of it, when somebody says something that would normally drive me bonkers and I just let it go...but perhaps I haven't let it go as much as I thought I did. How do you know when you're stuffing it in and when you're letting it go? There can be such a fine line. Today at work we had the usual slieu of annoying people (and it does seem like all of them sometimes), the guy off his meds slamming things into the counter, the woman who insists on talking REEAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLYYYYYYY SSSSSLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY when I'm juggling four calls and she has nothing important to say anyway, a coworker who yelled at me for not cancelling something when somebody said they spoke to me yesterday (even though I didn't pick up the phone once yesterday and she didn't have a cancellation number, and he just said "are you calling her a liar?" when I pointed out the fact), or the sleazy old man who asked me if I was "being a nice girl" and to call him if i "want to be a naughty girl so we can be naughty together"--I guess the fact that I'm typing this means I didn't let it go (never said I was enlightened) but at least I was able to not respond to it, to just breath and say, "Just let me know if there's anything I can help you with," trying not to let other people manipulate my enotions--I guess that is what I see as enlightenment. If you can process what is around you without reacting to it or holding on to it...

 

At WS there's an exercise we do where we are closely watching our own auras and another person is telling us things...usually starts with compliments, followed by criticisms, and we watch as our aura changes because we are REACTING, so basically we are giving our power away, so we're not free. I've gotten really good at not letting my aura get bitter when people say nice things, but not quite mastered it not getting smaller when people say mean things. I think that would be enlightenment.

 

Of course the word "light" is in there--being a pure channel, letting it flow through you.

[Dog]

Enlightenment comes from blancing of what we might call male and female energys. Through this the gold light shines from with en. This is why I would ask you not to look at your self as a male or female but as Accepting light. Light yang Acceptance yin. Balance through caompassion this is enlightenment for me.

 

Peace be with you.

[hagar]

There is no such thing as enlightenment

 

h

[freeform]

Enlightenment is never what you think it is... which is great... because you can play with it... when we were children and we painted our parents and our house and the sun, we didn't mistake them to be real... we just interpreted what we saw, and it was fun (right?)...

 

So knowing that whatever we say about enlightenment isn't real, we can feel a great freedom because we know we can have some fun - and interpret it in all kinds of different and exciting ways.

.....

 

maybe enlightenment has something to do with light (as the name suggests) how about shining brightly from the depths of who you are and illuminating the world around you?

[...]

OMG LMAO @ LOZEN

Those creepy old men are the worst, huh?? I bet he was like 80 and used a walker! Did he stick his tongue out inbetween words LOL! I think I would like to do that when I am too old, too! That and shit my pants in public, 'oops, sorry, that was me. I shit my pants'

 

I just watched office space =) that movie is cool. The guy is 'hypnotized'.. told to melt away all of his worry, concern, inhibitions, anxiety whatever... and before the hypnotist can manage to bring him back to 'normal'.. he dies.

So the dude stops showing up to work.wears flip-flops when he does come in... I used to think this was enlightenment. Now.. I just think it is zen.

I am also reminded of the father in 'american beauty'... and, of course, tyler durden from 'fight club'... All great practitioners of what (I) call zen...

 

...but enlightenment is so much more. BUDDHA was enlightened. not the kevin spacey's character in american beauty.

[forestofsouls]

We talk about enlightenment. But it means different things to different people. To some its a rarified state only found in a handful, that makes them saints or more. To others its a process, a style of awareness, that we all slip into and out of- seeing a rainbow or fireworks or good sex.

 

Is it function of psychology-such as the Nowness of Eckhardt Tolle? A function of higher inner energy, claimed by Professor Morris (Pathnotes..), a function of saintliness and grace?

 

Is enlightenment a goal to be pursued? If so is the path through God awareness and ego lessening? Is it through energetic practices that strengthen the body and redefine the spirit.

 

Or is it a bad goal. The tao is under our feet, in the air, the water we drink. There is nothing to find or do or study. Just acceptance and grace?

Michael

 

I've heard the "path" decribed as a series of concentric circles. At the outer edges, where people find their entry (often through religion), there is much difference. However, as one draws near the center, there is much more similarity.

 

Who's to say that enlightenment isn't a spectrum including all of these things? For instance, Glenn Morris used to say that enlightenment is a biological process, which involves developing the (subtle) body and inner energies. This is not unlike the reports of Taoists who use qigong for immortality. Others, such as many Buddhist practicioners, tend to focus on purifying the mind through attention, concentration, and mindfulness. Yet some Buddhists consider the body as unimportant, a corpse one carries around. Why not both?

 

Viewing the body, mind, emotions, etc. as an undifferentiated specutrum of energies as opposed to fixed entities, this seems to be a very plausible view. A "complete" enlightenment might entail a purified (i.e. relaxed, open, dynamic) bodily energy (jing?), a "purified" emotional/mental energy (qi?), and a "purified" state of awareness (shen?). An "enlightened" being might then be compassionate, energerized, attentive, saintly and living moment-to-moment. They may be physically capable, emotionally open, and mentally sound. They would cultivate their minds and their bodies, knowing that one affects and conditions the other.

 

Of course, not standing from the viewpoint of enlightenment, who can really say?

[...]

an interesting point to make-- is becoming 'enlightened' at least a little bit revolved around transcending such things as .. dualistic thinking? labeling? etc?

 

So would it make sense that trying to apply definitive qualities to the theroetical 'enlightened dude' be sort of... I guess nonsense?

 

And when does enlightenment become a 'stage'? maybe its not a, 'he enlightened and she's not', black-and-white sort of thing?

[fatherpaul]

and i maintain there is no such thing as enlightenment

can a finite mind strive to be infinite?

[Lozen]

This is why I would ask you not to look at your self as a male or female but as Accepting light.

 

No.

[mYTHmAKER]

and i maintain there is no such thing as enlightenment

can a finite mind strive to be infinite?

 

That is the paradox. If and when one is in a state of enlightenment the mind

is unaware of the state.

As soon as you think you are in a state of enlightenment your mind has kicked

in and you're out.

Remember to focus on the space between the breath and slow down your mind.

[fatherpaul]

That is the paradox. If and when one is in a state of enlightenment the mind

is unaware of the state.

As soon as you think you are in a state of enlightenment your mind has kicked

in and you're out.

Remember to focus on the space between the breath and slow down your mind.

 

forgive me but,

one doesn't fall in and out of a state of enlightenment

[Leidee]

I was considering my previous post...I may just use a different terminolgy...

 

There are days when "Stella has her groove back" (as in the movie title) and days I don't even know where Stella is and why the hell she took the groove with her!

 

I guess I have just accepted whatever groove-like mode I am in as a transitory thing...nothing is constant, and grooviness can fluctuate in its levels.

 

[Lozen]

forgive me but,

one doesn't fall in and out of a state of enlightenment

 

Yes they do.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori

[sean]

I agree with the Father. One doesn't fall in and out of a state of enlightenment because enlightenment is not a state. Satori is just an experience. It's a hindsight conception of what the mind thinks it was like to be Truth, and the mind is really incapable of languaging This. Satori, flow, beautiful detached loving feelings, anger, joy ... it all comes and go. Enlightenment simply is.

[Lozen]

I thought satori was a momentary state of enlightenment.

 

Not that I'm attached.

[sean]

IMO satori is the mind's attempt to label something bigger than any label (including no label), bigger than human experience, bigger than what what can be conceived of by the human mind. I think substituting the word Nothing for Enlightenment in this case could clarify. How can you have an experience of Nothing? How could you lose an experience of Nothing? Nothing cannot be gained or lost. Just my two cents, and after I said my wise little "it's not what you think" and tried to duck out, shit. I thought I could keep a cool, detached distance and play Mr. I'm too wise to even discuss enlightenment, so thanks for fucking up my pose there Lozen.

 

Sean

[Trunk]

(saying what I said before, in a different way)

 

ime, there is an Underlying Ground of Light, and there are definately meditative practices that unify the individual with the Big Light. I've sat with teachers where the room was definately full of light. So, ime, could be that "enlightenment" actually has something to do with light.