Has anyone used a Ghost or Spirit Box?

[Fu_dog]

Very interesting indeed!

 

Mantis - the black magic you mention may be the case in some parts of Thailand. That said, the use of black magic is not very common in Bangkok which is predominantly Hinayana Buddhist, with a smattering of Taoism sprinkled in as the city has a large Chinese population.

 

WBBM - Since you asked the original question, what's your comment?

[Seth Ananda]

Well, it's sort of begging the question a bit and I apologise for that but what I want to point to is "how" did/do people get to where they can't understand or integrate these experiences?

Great question, and who knows? Each Individual will have such different experiences for the onset. You have to factor in stress levels, substance abuse?, hereditary tendencies, cultural and beliefe systems...

I just finished the mental health/pathology part of my counselling course, part of which was a gruelling slog through the DSM-IV... and so many of the case studies demonstrated just how loose and subjective the diagnosis actually are, with no one but the pharmaceutical companies being totally certain who has what...

 

What if we started out with a kindlier approach?

Than what? I am not sure how you mean this?

 

What seems insane to me is we seem to have cultivated this huge repository of fantasy "outside" of ourselves to get involved with (movies, books etc) and ironically ultimately interact with (avatars) and then we call someone who meets similar entities by themselves in a non-mediated encounter nuts. Hehehe, I'd look again at some of those elves people think they made up:-)

Nice observation.

I do not think many of the 'Nuts' people are actually Nuts. I think they have blury edges, they confuse realms, confuse states... and are generally all jumbled up. I also believe in possession and think this phenomena makes life a lot worse for the bearer, and this is why I advocate people dabbling, and the more the better.

 

The more people who really want to Know about the actual structure of the universe, and who Its Inhabitants are that we share it with, [rather than being rather rude neighbours who Ignore everyone on their street]

And who start hunting out classes and teachers, and books, and experimenting, then the sooner we will have a culture of people better able to deal with entities, real confusion, blury edges and so on...

All this "leave it to the experts" talk, sounds like 'experts' magically grow on tree's and are actually some different species. Well they do not and they are not.

They started out as beginners, and dabbled a bit, and nearly all of them would have got their fingers burnt or worse at some point in their training.

Every expert I have met, has great stories to tell about their mistakes.

 

Mistakes are Awesome. And they do kill the occasional person. But the rest of us get some of the best learning of our lives from them, and one day end up experts.

 

All this drive [began with the evils of the sueing culture and the power of insurance companies] to eradicate any possible risk from our lives is making life hideously bland and grey. Soon the whole world will be fat TV watching consumers who never leave the house in case they stub a toe. Then the Human race will have become Obsolete.

[Seth Ananda]

Very interesting indeed!

 

WBBM - Since you asked the original question, what's your comment?

He copped a suspension for being Insulting in the pit. Not really fair, he thought the pit was anything goes...

Hopefully we will hear from him in 30 days.

[mantis]

Very interesting indeed!

 

Mantis - the black magic you mention may be the case in some parts of Thailand. That said, the use of black magic is not very common in Bangkok which is predominantly Hinayana Buddhist, with a smattering of Taoism sprinkled in as the city has a large Chinese population.

 

WBBM - Since you asked the original question, what's your comment?

 

If you don't mind me asking, where did you learn so much about Thai superstitions and beliefs? I saw the little ghost houses in that Thai ghost documentary posted here but wasn't aware how widespread it was.

[Birch]

@Seth

 

I meant kindlier as in helping people to navigate states rather than leaving them to figure it out ALL alone. Sort of like the difference between throwing someone into a pool to "teach" them to swim when they've never even taken a bath before and letting them play in the shallows with floats on. I don't see any merit in unecessary injury. Even tiger cubs get to play at killing before killing.

 

Yeah, the DSMV is an, er 'interesting' codex. Irony being they've recently included culturally-specific stuff like "qi-deviation" (I think, you'd know better:-)) but what happens when a Westerner gets spontaneous teachings from a dream master or meets their spirit guides or massive synchronicity becomes almost a banal constant (cough cough) or they decide to pretend to be various mythical characters for various reasons (not just for fun)? The current bottom line advice is "Don't mention it" and my take is that if people are having trouble with the "neighbours" as you put it, they ought to be able to mention it and be taken quite seriously. Reasoning being, that mental illness like other illness very often resolves itself, if indeed it is illness and not just a different expression of being, but gets worse if you arrest the state with whatever.

 

I'd also like to point out the relative increase in grey-world of what I'd call "flat-world adaptive syndromes" like Aspergers and autism spectrum diagnoses. Also that it's likely that our cultural selects for pathological leaders (as in "no capacity for empathy" per the latest neurobiology experimentation).

[Aaron]

Yes it actually happened, not being sarcastic.

 

 

But here you are, telling potential future experts {beginners} to stay away from the field. What do want all expertise in this area to disappear? Because if each generation does not produce its experts, that is exactly what will happen...

 

 

Sure this path is not for everyone. When meeting the extreme psychic toxicity of malevolent entities, many feel that they would like to curl up and die of fright. But for a true explorer, These interactions are major stepping stones in development and understanding.

Some of my greatest learning's come from these exact experiences. And I will never regret having had them.

For one, it is only through having these experiences that one can loose all fear of these entities, and become sort of 'Immunised' against their Influence. They really do not disturb me in the slightest any more. You learn to, {to quote Taomeow, sorry If I got it wrong Taomeow} "Stare the devil in the eye, and make him blink!"

In other words, you learn to Look what scares you right in the face, and that is a supreme skill for many aspects of ones life.

 

 

 

Boring! Boring! Boring! And so white middle class. eeww, makes me want to puke! lol.

I grew up in the country climbing trees, scaling cliffs, and hunting, and it was the best! So much fun!

When I see kids of today spending all their time in front of a play station, because the local council has made a state wide ban on tree climbing, because they are so afraid of being sued... well I just get really mad.

I think of all the bland conservatives at their desks, terrified of the possibility that someone somewhere is having any fun or feeling really really alive, and coming up with new ways to dampen the spirit of the young...

Well from now on twinner when I think of these things i am going to think of you, and someone somewhere may hear an impotent voice, fist shaking at the sky, shouting "Damn you twinner! Damn you! this is all your fault!!!..."

 

 

 

As I said you really can't know the details in a sad situation like this.

You 'think' or 'believe' she was fine, but people can be very good at hiding mental Illness symptoms. And was she also using other drugs at the time? A very large percentage of psychotic episode's begin with drug taking, especially for teens.

And when one is talking mental illness, it often engenders a belief in the supernatural, as many of its experiences give one a direct taste of, out of this world.

 

But all this talk about saftey is important. I do believe if someone shows genuine interest in the spiritual worlds, which often start with some dabbling, [just to see if there really is some reality to such things] then that person would be wise to seek out proper training.

 

I myself did exactly that, and was lucky to find great teachings and teachers.

I joined Magical Lodges, Witch cults, studied and practised various traditions of Shamanism under different teachers, learned the skills of exorcism and pact making, how to interact and Influence...

I had such wonderful experiences as well as some of the most ghastly soul shredding encounters that sometimes left me with my sanity no longer completely intact...

 

And you know what? i can't imagine a better way to have spent the last 20 years, and every minute was absolutely and completely worth it.

I sometimes feel so happy for having found this life that I feel like I might burst at the seems.

I feel deeply sorry for the bland, the conservatives, the chronically cautious and the plain old cowardly souls that inhabit my earth with me.

They spend their little grey lives neatly packaged away, nursing their small private pleasures, their alcoholism or drug addictions, their porn fetishes, begging for safety the way a sadist begs for the whip.

 

They will never know what it feels like to take possession of an animal and run through the Forrest at night [not in some pansy guided visualisation], To become ecstatically One with a powerful ancient God and gain a new set of abilities..., to literally see multiple universes and select the most suitable ones for what one needs, to disappear from one place and reappear somewhere else, to be in two places at once, to battle spirits - and win, to be part of healing impossible conditions, to summon demons, to use ones 'Knowing' to do things one could never normally do, to 'see' how the nature spirits Intersect with out physical world in their stunning beauty and how the subtler levels intersect with them...

 

And to be shaken to ones core so deeply that it takes a few years to reintegrate, but find that when that is over one is better than ever before...

 

 

Utterly Worthwhile, and I probably only mentioned the tiniest fraction of what I have gone through...

 

If you desire experience, then there are more beneficial ways to gain experience than toying with spirits and other planes, at least from my point of view, one that is also born of experience. I don't fear spirits or ghosts by any means, but I respect them enough to know that they have a purpose and it's not to coddle my curiosity. When one dabbles simply to satisfy this, then more often than not, they are asking for their own share of pain and suffering. Show me one person who went down that road that didn't experience it. I've heard many say it was a journey that no man should take, but also it can be quite addictive for many, much as adrenaline sports are for some people. You keep going, despite the risk, because of the rush you receive from it. If one finds balance in their life, then there is no need for this rush.

 

I have no doubts I could call a spirit or ghost to me if I wanted, but I also know that doing so is never a sure thing. You may think you're calling a simple kind child spirit, but you may end up calling something much different. Those who have a great deal of experience in this regard may be able to pick and choose, but I can't, so I would much rather not take the risk anymore, as I have burnt my fingers enough times to know not to touch the burner to see if it is on.

 

You have your own views, I just pray they don't lead someone who doesn't have the mental fortitude to handle this stuff into harms way, I would hope that you would too. If you have experienced what you have, I would almost wonder why you would suggest that someone take such a haphazard approach. I'm sure you have your reasons, and I don't doubt you, I just think you are expecting everyone else that comes along to be able to overcome these things as you have, which sadly may not be so.

 

A wise man understands the capacity within others and within themselves. They do not suggest others do as they have done, but rather that they do things as they can do them.

 

Aaron

Edited December 6, 2011 by Twinner

[C T]

If you desire experience, then there are more beneficial ways to gain experience than toying with spirits and other planes, at least from my point of view, one that is also born of experience. I don't fear spirits or ghosts by any means, but I respect them enough to know that they have a purpose and it's not to coddle by curiosity. When one dabbles simply to satisfy this, then more often than not, they are asking for their own share of pain and suffering. Show me one person who went down that road that didn't experience it. I've heard many say it was a journey that no man should take, but also it can be quite addictive for many, much as adrenaline sports are for some people. You keep going, despite the risk, because of the rush you receive from it. If one finds balance in their life, then there is no need for this rush.

 

I have no doubts I could call a spirit or ghost to me if I wanted, but I also know that doing so is never a sure thing. You may think you're calling a simple kind child spirit, but you may end up calling something much different. Those who have a great deal of experience in this regard may be able to pick and choose, but I can't, so I would much rather not take the risk anymore, as I have burnt my fingers enough times to know not to touch the burner to see if it is on.

 

You have your own views, I just pray they don't lead someone who doesn't have the mental fortitude to handle this stuff into harms way, I would hope that you would too. If you have experienced what you have, I would almost wonder why you would suggest that someone take such a haphazard approach. I'm sure you have your reasons, and I don't doubt you, I just think you are expecting everyone else that comes along to be able to overcome these things as you have, which sadly may not be so.

 

A wise man understands the capacity within others and within themselves. They do not suggest others do as they have done, but rather that they do things as they can do them.

 

Aaron

 

Well-thought out post.. good advice too.

 

I find myself agreeing with your views here, Twinner, yet i can also see where Seth is coming from.

 

Along the path to growth and well-being, there's bound to be the odd time where one comes to some sort of chasm which looks rather treacherous... what do we do? Some would advocate retreating and finding an alternative, perhaps safer route, while others would say 'jump and see what lies on the other side'. The thing is, the alternative route may turn to be one which leads to a more hazardous place.

 

The way i see it, where self-grasping self is loosened, arising thenceforth the Right Understanding of non-attachment, then it really does not matter so much whether one retreats or freely dives forth where one finds oneself at each particular juncture. Without grasping, one will come to recognize that whatever one comes upon, such unfoldings are there as opportunities to increase one's merit, whereby such merits are not for selfish gains, but meant to be given/dedicated to the well-being of others. As long as one remains mindful of gaining something not just for selfish reasons, instead, for the good of others, then no matter what lies ahead, no harm will come to such a person. However, this may not be a pleasant path, because it means having the tenacity and wisdom to put others first, even if others here imply beings from other shores.

 

Not everyone on the spiritual path wants to be a warrior though, although i can see Seth's position as one which strongly advocates courage, curiosity and fortitude, precise qualities which hones a fearless heart.

[Fu_dog]

Seth - thanks for the update on WBBM. He's one of my favorite posters. Hope he's back soon.

 

Mantis - my wife is a Chinese born in Bangkok, raised in a traditional Taoist home. Cantonese, actually. Her older brother in Bangkok is very knowledgeable in Toaist customs and beliefs, as well as Buddhism which is the native religion. I was fortunate to visit Bangkok about 18 months ago and asked him lots of questions. He's only too happy to answer them, so it was a great opportunity for me to learn. I learned about Gumans (and saw some) and also visited the Pra Prom. There are also other spirits in Thailand that are very interesting, but I haven't discussed them here. There are also a number of Taoist temples in Bangkok, some with things I didn't understand but didn't have time to ask about.

 

I found the Thai to be very knowledgeable with respect to spirits and the spirit world. My trip was eye opening and I learned a lot. I'm planning to go back to Bangkok again in 2012....with yet more questions.

[Mokona]

Seth - thanks for the update on WBBM. He's one of my favorite posters. Hope he's back soon.

 

Mantis - my wife is a Chinese born in Bangkok, raised in a traditional Taoist home. Cantonese, actually. Her older brother in Bangkok is very knowledgeable in Toaist customs and beliefs, as well as Buddhism which is the native religion. I was fortunate to visit Bangkok about 18 months ago and asked him lots of questions. He's only too happy to answer them, so it was a great opportunity for me to learn. I learned about Gumans (and saw some) and also visited the Pra Prom. There are also other spirits in Thailand that are very interesting, but I haven't discussed them here. There are also a number of Taoist temples in Bangkok, some with things I didn't understand but didn't have time to ask about.

 

I found the Thai to be very knowledgeable with respect to spirits and the spirit world. My trip was eye opening and I learned a lot. I'm planning to go back to Bangkok again in 2012....with yet more questions.

 

This is for sure the thread to share, though! Post a cool story or three

[mantis]

Seth - thanks for the update on WBBM. He's one of my favorite posters. Hope he's back soon.

 

Mantis - my wife is a Chinese born in Bangkok, raised in a traditional Taoist home. Cantonese, actually. Her older brother in Bangkok is very knowledgeable in Toaist customs and beliefs, as well as Buddhism which is the native religion. I was fortunate to visit Bangkok about 18 months ago and asked him lots of questions. He's only too happy to answer them, so it was a great opportunity for me to learn. I learned about Gumans (and saw some) and also visited the Pra Prom. There are also other spirits in Thailand that are very interesting, but I haven't discussed them here. There are also a number of Taoist temples in Bangkok, some with things I didn't understand but didn't have time to ask about.

 

I found the Thai to be very knowledgeable with respect to spirits and the spirit world. My trip was eye opening and I learned a lot. I'm planning to go back to Bangkok again in 2012....with yet more questions.

 

Very cool, I'd like to visit Thailand in the future.

 

Ditto what Mokona said, stories please .