Golden Dragon Body

[Cameron]

Ashhhebaal, sheebal, sheebal, shebal.

 

I am listenting to a wonderful dharma talk by Adyashanti right now and what he is saying is pretty much lining up to exactly what I experience on Tao Bums.

 

There appears to be two orders of "spiritual" communication. Endless speculating, arguing, intellectual debates(not interesting to me) and then actually doing your practice and direct inquiry(interesting to me).

 

Your life is short, do you want to endlessly speculate and argue or do your practice and find out your truth for yourself then live it(I want the latter not the former).

 

Also, I just got a PM from someone saying there teacher says XYZ about Max and Kan and what do I think yada yada.

 

I have no interest if anyones teacher thinks they are more advanced then Max or Kan. If they are great, more power to you.

 

I am pretty certain that I AM NOT MORE ADVANCED THEN MAX OR KAN and don't expect I will be, well, anytime soon. So I have no opinions about other awakened teachers. I don care who they are and what they can do.

 

I am happy to hear that someone finds a teacher that they find helpful My only advice follow what your teacher says and get awakening.

 

Pretty much anything outside of actually helping people get awakening is boring to me. There are plenty more entertaining people then spiritual teachers if what you want is entertainment. Go watch movies, play PS3, XBOX, get a girlfriend/boyfriend, go to a concert, bunjee jump, hike, snowboard etc.

 

Later

[Aetherous]

Are you addressing me?

[Owledge]

Your life is short, do you want to endlessly speculate and argue or do your practice and find out your truth for yourself then live it(I want the latter not the former).

Did you consider that some speculation and arguing might be done by people who already have found their truth and are living it?

 

I am happy to hear that someone finds a teacher that they find helpful My only advice follow what your teacher says and get awakening.

Life is a pretty good teacher. It says: Everything has meaning and every experience is a lesson.

 

Pretty much anything outside of actually helping people get awakening is boring to me.

Maybe you should update your info column. It says: "Interests: Life".

Then again ... maybe not.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Owledge

[Cameron]

Are you addressing me?

 

No,not you Scotty

 

This is my last post on here. I am pretty clear what this place is now and I want no more part of it.

 

To sum up my over 10 years experience on Taoist chat rooms.

 

Finding a teacher/path and doing it=good.

 

Wasting time on the internet with un awakened students who most likely are misrepresenting there own teachers=bad.

 

Goodbye.

[Aetherous]

K....I'll take your word for it. Look forward to your potential return!

[Birch]

Bye Cam!

[Cameron]

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.

 

I am not saying people on Tao Bums aren't already potential Buddhas.

 

I wholeheartedly beleive in what Buddha said we are all already Buddhas.

 

What I have issue with is the constant comparing different teachers attainments and even close disciples of different Masters being misrepresented, haviing there words twisted etc.

 

You see, this is not really a Sangha. It's a bunch of people with different teachers and lineages giving their opinions about things.

 

I feel comfortable doing the same in every other field of human development except this one. It's an area I prefer not to even speak about at all until I really, really, really, really, really know.

 

Peace.

[Cameron]

To clarify a bit more.

 

Do any of us REALLY KNOW what is the difference between Rainbow Body, GDB, Taoist Immortality, the Non Dual awakening of Advaita Vedenta, the Satori of Zen Masters, the alchemical wisdom of ancient Egypt?

 

Do we REALLY know.

 

Adyashanti said something I like a lot once. Someone in the audience said that they were pretty certain that 9/11 was an inside job. Adyashanti asked " Do you really know?" The man said "I feel very strongly it was."

 

Adya said " Let me rephrase the question. Let's say I have a sword. If you get the answer wrong I cut your head off. Now do you really know?"

 

"If you put it that way then I don't know." the guy answered.

 

My interest in talking about spirituality is like that now. I don't even want to speak about the matter until I really know. I am not interested in giving anyone advice unless I really know.

 

No theories, no opinions about my teachers or other peoples teachers, nothing.

 

If I really, really feel that I know at some point I might be drawn to say something. If not I won't.

 

Be well

Edited April 8, 2012 by Cameron

[C T]

(Quote from Sensei Enkyo O'Hara)

 

We all want to idealize our teachers. We want to idealize enlightenment, and we want to idealize ourselves.

What happens is that we set things up so that there is enlightenment, and there's this teacher who's going

to give it to us, and that teacher has to be perfect, and we have to be perfect. And of course, that makes it

almost impossible for us to practice, to have genuine compassion for ourselves and for others. The fact is,

we're all human. And, enlightenment does not bestow perfection. There's no such thing as perfection.

[Trunk]

(Quote from Sensei Enkyo O'Hara)

 

We all want to idealize our teachers. We want to idealize enlightenment, and we want to idealize ourselves.

What happens is that we set things up so that there is enlightenment, and there's this teacher who's going

to give it to us, and that teacher has to be perfect, and we have to be perfect. And of course, that makes it

almost impossible for us to practice, to have genuine compassion for ourselves and for others. The fact is,

we're all human. And, enlightenment does not bestow perfection. There's no such thing as perfection.

Thank you for that dose of sanity!

[Cameron]

(Quote from Sensei Enkyo O'Hara)

 

We all want to idealize our teachers. We want to idealize enlightenment, and we want to idealize ourselves.

What happens is that we set things up so that there is enlightenment, and there's this teacher who's going

to give it to us, and that teacher has to be perfect, and we have to be perfect. And of course, that makes it

almost impossible for us to practice, to have genuine compassion for ourselves and for others. The fact is,

we're all human. And, enlightenment does not bestow perfection. There's no such thing as perfection.

 

 

That's not really true for myself.

 

I don't idiolize any of my teachers.

 

I guess the way I see it..comparea high level "spiritual" teacher do a surgeon or something. They have spent decades learning, practicing, then teaching their path.

 

I know all of my teachers have human flaws and are not perfect. But, just like I am not going to do heart surgery on anyone any time soon, I also don't want to talk to people too much about spiritual awakening anytime soon.

 

I consider myself a total noob btw. my 10+ years of on again/off again practice is nothing special. So I think being honest and humble about who you are is not always bad.

 

But if you think you are doing good work posting on Tao Bums please carry on. I speak only for myself not anyone else..

[Owledge]

Really knowing is relative. It is a personal decision based on the rigidity of standards we set for ourselves. We can finally be convinced we know something, then talk about it, and in those very talks discover that we were wrong.

Speculation and rumors can still be part of the search for truth, for insight. It depends on each person's intention behind the action.

All of life is a spiritual quest. Rejection of life experiences is what causes suffering. Our mind is that which rejects. Our heart is that which feels pain. Pain doesn't cause suffering. Rejection of pain does.

[Birch]

Thank you for that dose of sanity!

 

More good stuff in that one than in an hour's debate:-)

[joeblast]

That's not really true for myself.

 

I don't idiolize any of my teachers.

 

I guess the way I see it..comparea high level "spiritual" teacher do a surgeon or something. They have spent decades learning, practicing, then teaching their path.

 

I know all of my teachers have human flaws and are not perfect. But, just like I am not going to do heart surgery on anyone any time soon, I also don't want to talk to people too much about spiritual awakening anytime soon.

 

I consider myself a total noob btw. my 10+ years of on again/off again practice is nothing special. So I think being honest and humble about who you are is not always bad.

 

But if you think you are doing good work posting on Tao Bums please carry on. I speak only for myself not anyone else..

Cam you keep summing up why I havent posted in this thread When I have something to add, I add, when I have nothing, why add?

[C T]

That's not really true for myself.

 

I don't idiolize any of my teachers.

 

I guess the way I see it..comparea high level "spiritual" teacher do a surgeon or something. They have spent decades learning, practicing, then teaching their path.

 

I know all of my teachers have human flaws and are not perfect. But, just like I am not going to do heart surgery on anyone any time soon, I also don't want to talk to people too much about spiritual awakening anytime soon.

 

I consider myself a total noob btw. my 10+ years of on again/off again practice is nothing special. So I think being honest and humble about who you are is not always bad.

 

But if you think you are doing good work posting on Tao Bums please carry on. I speak only for myself not anyone else..

I did not intend the quote to be applied to you, Cameron. I posted it more as a reminder to myself, and thought it was timely to share it with others because idealizing teachers is all too common. From personal experience and further observation, i have noticed the all too frequent tendency of students to project their insecurities and expectations on to teachers, as though being guided by an almost ignoble motive of wanting to proof to themselves, and others, that teachers are indeed fallible beings.

 

As it so often happens, some individuals within any given 'sangha' would actually make it their quest, sometimes unconsciously, to locate character flaws in others in order to address some imbalances in their logic processes, and in doing so, actually tilt the scales even more, creating a chasm from which all too often other students innocently fall in and get caught up in a messy web of conspiracies and the spreading of half-truths to downright lies. And the irony is that all the teacher wanted to do was to share his or her realization with others, with no thought whatsoever of having to proof to others his or her impeccability and perfected status. Such needs are, in most instances, spread by less mature students, and from them, the ripple is effected, where most 'my oak tree is bigger than your oak tree' situations arise from and takes root.

[konchog uma]

(Quote from Sensei Enkyo O'Hara)

 

We all want to idealize our teachers. We want to idealize enlightenment, and we want to idealize ourselves.

What happens is that we set things up so that there is enlightenment, and there's this teacher who's going

to give it to us, and that teacher has to be perfect, and we have to be perfect. And of course, that makes it

almost impossible for us to practice, to have genuine compassion for ourselves and for others. The fact is,

we're all human. And, enlightenment does not bestow perfection. There's no such thing as perfection.

 

wonderful words, thanks for the reminder!

 

@cam: taobums is not trying to be a sangha its just an internet forum. I think it functions best when addressed as such. Its a public place where anyone can come and say whatever they please. Glad you're back, i like your contributions (even the frustrated ones)

[Aetherous]

Adya said " Let me rephrase the question. Let's say I have a sword. If you get the answer wrong I cut your head off. Now do you really know?"

 

For the GDB person, they get the answer wrong and then the sword passes through the space between their atoms.

 

Anyway, it's a very interesting thing to experience. RP+K=GDB....we all know that. Some of us here have practiced these two methods for a couple years. It's not impossible to get a little taste of it with daily practice...1 hour is 100 years, 1 minute is 1000 years, 1 second is 10000 years of practice. Why not you? "It can happen in an instant." Kan can manifest the state regularly, which means he has "attained" it...but "everyone already has it, they just don't know it" (direct quote from Max).

 

"If you let go of grasping, it comes. The whole art is surrender."

"It's a deep letting go."

 

There are different phenomenon which are closely related to it...like translocation...the step beyond bilocation, where you create a spirit double that's separate from you (maybe materialized)...your physical body is transmuted into that fully and you can "think about a place and you are there". If I remember correctly, gold flower or red dragon (done separately of course) can lead to this advanced ability, although it isn't the same state as GDB. Just related. Worth discussing.

 

In other traditions, I've heard of unique people, without any energy practice, being able to translocate due to the will of God (in their own words, for the atheists in here) and their virtue/need to help others.

 

"Traditionally, only those with the highest virtue could attain GDB."

"To go back to your source with your body is the ultimate attainment. Staying and helping others is the highest attainment."

"Physical immortality (living forever as this body) is a trap."

"You must open your heart to attain anything."

"You will never get the attainments of another, you are your own person."

[Cameron]

I think that Tao Bums is good stuff.

 

It's just time for me to move on and really live my art. For me, everything that needed to be said has been said.

 

I basically just started posting here again since Facebook isn't readily available in China lol.

 

Anyway, I wish you all well on your path.

 

Cameron

[Cat Pillar]

For the GDB person, they get the answer wrong and then the sword passes through the space between their atoms.

 

Anyway, it's a very interesting thing to experience. RP+K=GDB....we all know that. Some of us here have practiced these two methods for a couple years. It's not impossible to get a little taste of it with daily practice...1 hour is 100 years, 1 minute is 1000 years, 1 second is 10000 years of practice. Why not you? "It can happen in an instant." Kan can manifest the state regularly, which means he has "attained" it...but "everyone already has it, they just don't know it" (direct quote from Max).

 

"If you let go of grasping, it comes. The whole art is surrender."

"It's a deep letting go."

 

There are different phenomenon which are closely related to it...like translocation...the step beyond bilocation, where you create a spirit double that's separate from you (maybe materialized)...your physical body is transmuted into that fully and you can "think about a place and you are there". If I remember correctly, gold flower or red dragon (done separately of course) can lead to this advanced ability, although it isn't the same state as GDB. Just related. Worth discussing.

 

In other traditions, I've heard of unique people, without any energy practice, being able to translocate due to the will of God (in their own words, for the atheists in here) and their virtue/need to help others.

 

"Traditionally, only those with the highest virtue could attain GDB."

"To go back to your source with your body is the ultimate attainment. Staying and helping others is the highest attainment."

"Physical immortality (living forever as this body) is a trap."

"You must open your heart to attain anything."

"You will never get the attainments of another, you are your own person."

 

Nice post, Scotty.

 

I know my biggest challenge with these practices is the "letting go." I have a feeling I'm going to be one of the ones who takes awhile to "pop" as it were (not talking about GDB, but getting Kunlun running.) I talked to one student at the seminar who said it was 6 weeks into the practice before it hit him and really opened up.

 

I'm not worried, though. I may be as energetically sensitive as a brick wall, but I can tell the practices are doing SOMETHING. I just don't know what yet. ^.^

[Aetherous]

I've found red phoenix to be very helpful for letting go. So is one breath if you get really deep into it. Come to think of it, I guess all the methods are good for it.

 

I wouldn't concern myself with popping. The kunlun practice is different for everyone.

 

"Some start with movement and move towards stillness. Some come from the void, beginning with stillness, but eventually there is movement."

"Movement means there is a blockage...we favor stillness."

 

Energetic sensitivity...always calm the mind with one breath. Relaxation in the body and mind creates movement...then you can feel it.

 

Just some ideas from a fellow practitioner. Not that you need any help.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Scotty

[Cat Pillar]

No worries, Scotty. I appreciate the input.

 

I have noticed that Red Phoenix in particular REALLY cuts down on the mental noise. It's still there, but not nearly as prevalent. Also, I'm excited by how quickly that particular practice seems to be deepening.

 

Before starting my practice I usually do one breath + standing 5 elements (though I'll be switching to I-jong after my current cycle completes.) It does definitely help.

 

My biggest problem is usually with Kunlun, cuz my focus often strays to the mind. Still, although it doesn't seem to be going as quickly as RP, the K practice IS still getting deeper.

[Lucky7Strikes]

No worries, Scotty. I appreciate the input.

 

I have noticed that Red Phoenix in particular REALLY cuts down on the mental noise. It's still there, but not nearly as prevalent. Also, I'm excited by how quickly that particular practice seems to be deepening.

 

Before starting my practice I usually do one breath + standing 5 elements (though I'll be switching to I-jong after my current cycle completes.) It does definitely help.

 

My biggest problem is usually with Kunlun, cuz my focus often strays to the mind. Still, although it doesn't seem to be going as quickly as RP, the K practice IS still getting deeper.

To me when I first started Kunlun listening to music helped me loosen up a lot. Different music depending on the mood.

 

Doing K1 after five elements is incredible because all the energy you build up is released by the posture to clear blockages. It's much more intense after standing.

 

As for RP, I'm not sure if other people experience this, but if you also have awareness at the heart, there is a kind of resonance you feel between the heart and the third eye as you start out and as you pull the energy up, the spine seems to get involved. My RP practice isn't "deep" or anything, but like you said, the more I do it, it feels like it's not just a simple brain practice, but a whole body thing. Definitely going to ask Max about it more the next time I see him.

[joeblast]

I very thoroughly enjoy rp - any of you guys doing levels 2, 3?

[idiot_stimpy]

Something very mystical about something called the Golden Dragon body

[Aetherous]

any of you guys doing levels 2, 3?

 

Tried to take off with level 3 before I was ready, and experienced some problems...definitely still at level 1.