Released: Seeking the Master of Mo Pai: Adventures with John Chang by Jim McMillan

[YMWong]

And that, my friends, is 75% of why we’re seeing these arguments. .

 

If I travel of my own volition to a different country I am bound to follow the local law

 

If then I commit an offense and I get arrested I cannot say "nobody told me" or "in my country we do otherwise" even if that is the case. It doesn't work like that

 

So while, as I said, one can empathize with Jim's situation that is not a reason to put the blame on the "cultural diversity" alone

 

Moreover, as I said, Jim seems to accept easily that somebody (Kosta) get kicked out from the school but when the same thing happens to him that is not acceptable anymore. This again rules out much of the "cultural diversity" problem, in my opinion

 

YM

[Truth Seeker]

The obvious problem here is that you can’t hold someone in another culture to the standards of your culture. When a student studies with a teacher, that student has to play by the teacher’s rules. Jim was in Sifu Chang’s world and had to live by those norms.

Hi, YMWong. In response to your post, please note this quote from my first post. We seem to actually be saying the same thing.

 

We also seem to have stolen the same photo for our avatars. ;-)

Edited May 2, 2013 by Truth Seeker

[voidisyinyang]

If I travel of my own volition to a different country I am bound to follow the local law If then I commit an offense and I get arrested I cannot say "nobody told me" or "in my country we do otherwise" even if that is the case. It doesn't work like that So while, as I said, one can empathize with Jim's situation that is not a reason to put the blame on the "cultural diversity" alone Moreover, as I said, Jim seems to accept easily that somebody (Kosta) get kicked out from the school but when the same thing happens to him that is not acceptable anymore. This again rules out much of the "cultural diversity" problem, in my opinion YM

 

yeah even if John Chang was a Western teacher he wouldn't be obligated to recommend another teacher -- it's not even a norm. Sure it would be considered a very considerate thing to do -- and not too surprising -- but it's in no way an expectation of a teacher to do that.

 

Someone raised the point - if you get fired from a job the former employer is not expected to find the employee a new job - obviously. I mean it's not quite that extreme but somewhat similar.

 

I mean even qigong in the West -- like for Spring Forest Qigong - you sign a waiver saying that they are not responsible if something bad happens -- essentially - people are experimenting in this at their own risk, etc.

 

So also Western medicine is not discouraged, etc.

 

I mean Western medicine might be criticized but it is also praised in some ways and certainly no one is told to discontinue Western medicine, etc.

 

So for a strict non-western training setting -- that is obviously a totally different context in which the student would need to adhere to the local views about spirits, etc. Jim was not able to do this.

[tongkosong]

according to jim: john himself (and others, i think henky as well) have said that there can only be one person who is at or above the fusion level, and it's he who will be the leader. how can there be many students who are at or above level 3 and in a shorter time. yea i'll buy that you'd realistically have to work 12 hours per day for those kinds of results, and that's definitely possible. but how many level 3 (fusion) students are running around over there? i thought yang didn't even pass that level yet and i know that john retired from teaching. if any of this is wrong, by all means clear the air.

 

also, none of jims students were putting themselves or jim on a pedestal. what honor was lost so that there was a need to regain it? are words that westerners (who are banned from the school) speak out really that much of a threat for you to lash out so badly? i'm not complaining about your clearance of topics, but it seems a little like you are a pot calling the kettle black in terms of modesty and humble behavior.

 

There never is a rule in Mopai that prohibit more than 1 student to be at lvl 3 or higher. The current headmaster has certainly passed lvl 3.

 

Well, sir, how can you say that none of Jim nor his students are arrogant, when Jim, in this forum and his book, and the student above accussed the Mopai students of being jealous of them? Jim, himself, claimed that the rest of the Mopai students are lazy and at the state of stagnation in their progress. That for me is a show of arrogance. I don't find Jim and his students a threat at all. I, like most students that belonged to a school, take offense when our school and its students are being insulted. I just want to let them know the state of Mopai currently.

[Kasuku]

Are u saying yang has attained the battery?

[tongkosong]

I tend to agree with Truth Seeker on how the differences in culture and prespectives has produced such misunderstandings and resentments. You are quite accurate, in my opinion, on the reactions of Jim and how John Chang handled the situation. I appreciate your post, Truth Seeker.

[puretruth01]

There never is a rule in Mopai that prohibit more than 1 student to be at lvl 3 or higher. The current headmaster has certainly passed lvl 3. Well, sir, how can you say that none of Jim nor his students are arrogant, when Jim, in this forum and his book, and the student above accussed the Mopai students of being jealous of them? Jim, himself, claimed that the rest of the Mopai students are lazy and at the state of stagnation in their progress. That for me is a show of arrogance. I don't find Jim and his students a threat at all. I, like most students that belonged to a school, take offense when our school and its students are being insulted. I just want to let them know the state of Mopai currently.

 

So John Chang isnt the only one that in the Mo Pai that has yin yang kung thank god! i was starting to wonder about that sect

[flyinghigh]

...

Edited March 19, 2020 by flyinghigh

[Kasuku]

Lol everyone is bitching and they still haven't achieved the yin yang gong.... Remember lim, a blind cripple, achieved level 50 in TEN years....

[Kasuku]

That guy is actually the most genius of all

[Wells]

Remember lim, a blind cripple, achieved level 50 in TEN years....

That guy is actually the most genius of all.

 

Also, it was mentioned in Kosta's book that he looked like around 80 years old, so he began training at 70 years old!!!

Edited May 2, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Kasuku]

He trained in maoshan

[Kasuku]

Apparently

[Wells]

He trained in maoshan

 

That school here:

http://taoist-sorcery.blogspot.de/2012/06/mao-shan-sect.html

[Wells]

How do you know that? It's not mentioned in Kosta's book!

[Wells]

.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Dorian Black

[tongkosong]

Please do not waste your time and money thinking that you would be the special someone whom the school will make an exception and will give you further instruction and training."

This makes it sound- and the subject of projection has been mentioned before- that you yourself regard yourself as a special someone because you're part of this group.

 

The reason why I said the above statement is because many Westerners come to Indonesia, spent a great deal of money and time, hoping to be accepted by Mopai. After many months, they went back home empty handed. I was just cautioning you guys what will happened if you were to do just that. That is all.

[Wells]

The reason why I said the above statement is because many Westerners come to Indonesia, spent a great deal of money and time, hoping to be accepted by Mopai. After many months, they went back home empty handed. I was just cautioning you guys what will happened if you were to do just that. That is all.

 

tongkosong,

 

can you verify Jim's claim that Wang Liping is actually at level 35?

After all, Master Wang is level 35

 

John Chang is at level 20, right?

 

If that's all true, I personally see no rational reason why western people try to get knowledge of the exercises of Mo Pai if an official training manual of Wang Liping's complete system is available at amazon for $25.20!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Ling-Bao-Tong-Neng-Gong/dp/1470174545/

 

I don't see any possibility how any further knowledge of the levels of Mo Pai could find it's way into the western world anyways! Therefore it's a dead end for us!

Edited May 2, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Kasuku]

Wang liping has created his yang spirit etc - john chang hasn't (correct me if wrong)

therefore wang is above chang.

 

Wang's chi field that he can make incredibly dense stretches 500 ft - he also has invisibility skill and neikung projection chi blasts. He can speak to gods and can make it rain when it wants etc.

 

However the mopai system may have higher attainments in that at the higher levels u effectively turn into a ball of light cause each level u double ur power - 1000 volts at level 20, million volts at 30... so

 

And maybe chang has now reached level 30 or higher - can any indonesian students update us on his level.

[Wells]

He trained in maoshan

 

I personally believe that he channeled Gary Clyman's Mind Light Nei Kung workouts from the future!!!

[voidisyinyang]

A concern of mine also is that the Western perspective is considered somehow equally valid to the non-Western shamanic training. The U.S. has a long history of not only subterfuge in Indonesia but also mass murder. Most people don't know about this because it was conducted and organized secretly by the CIA:

 

http://williamblum.org/chapters/killing-hope/indonesia

 

 

Seemingly, the success of this operation inspired CIA officers in Washington to carry the theme one step further. A substantial effort was made to come up with a pornographic film or at least some still photographs that could pass for Sukarno and his Russian girl friend engaged in “his favorite activity”. When scrutiny of available porno films (supplied by the Chief of Police of Los Angeles) failed to turn up a couple who could pass for Sukarno (dark and bald) and a beautiful blonde Russian woman, the CIA undertook to produce its own films, “the very films with which the Soviets were blackmailing Sukarno”. The Agency developed a full-face mask of the Indonesian leader which was to be sent to Los Angeles where the police were to pay some porno-film actor to wear it during his big scene. This project resulted in at least some photographs, although they apparently were never used. 15

 

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

 

1965

Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.

 

So I know people say Jim's cancer was from Vietnam Agent Orange but the Indonesians I'm sure still also suffer from U.S. war-mongering -- funding and organizing Suharto's mass killings.

 

 

The Indonesian Massacres and the CIA by Ralph McGehee Covert Action Quarterly, Fall 1990

 

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/McGehee_CIA_Indo.html

 

 

Subversive control watch lists are an effective and deadly political tool long used by U.S. intelligence, so deadly that the Agency cannot allow them to become public knowledge. Keeping them secret depends on at least two things: Agency censorship of government employees, and self-censorship by the mainstream media.

 

hmmm -- CIA "watch lists" used for massacres.

 

And the Westerners get self-righteous about a "school" being closed to them.

 

 

 

In fact, former Director of the CIA William Colby compared the Indonesian operation directly to the Vietnam Phoenix Program. Colby further admitted directing the CIA to concentrate on compiling lists of members of the PKI and other left groups.

Edited May 2, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Ish]

I personally believe that he channeled Gary Clyman's Mind Light Nei Kung workouts from the future!!!

 

What "level" is Gary in your opinion?

[Wells]

What "level" is Gary in your opinion?

 

I don't know! I'm pretty careful with the estimation of someone's power level. I'm sure he has a tantien full with a condensed chi plus mind-energy mix (Jing) and that he can project this via direct contact into another person for obviously effective martial and healing application.

 

In Mo Pai terms, this would mean at least the passing of 2a. But in Tai Chi Nei Kung there is no "cutting of the cords" as in Mo Pai level 2b (no matter what all these armchair experts on ttb claim) or "yinyang gong" as in Mo Pai Level 3 or 4 (I forgot it).

Concerning Gary's raw internal power level, he certainly could be much further and equivalent to a much higher Mo Pai level. Don't forget, he trained Tai Chi Nei Kung for over 40 years!

On the other hand, treating patients all day long surely wastes a lot of his accumulated internal power.

 

According to Cheng Man Ching, the overflow of the "spirit chi" out of Tantien into the bones and the rest of the body is desired and not avoided in Tai Chi Nei Kung and "enlightenment" (maybe eqivalent to level 72 Mo Pai!) happens naturally as an end result of it:

http://books.google....t spine&f=false

Therefore, there are no real levels in Tai Chi Nei Kung and it's more a steady accumulation and refinement of your internal power.

At least it seems to me that way.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Green Tiger]

Wang liping has created his yang spirit etc - john chang hasn't (correct me if wrong)

therefore wang is above chang.

 

Wang's chi field that he can make incredibly dense stretches 500 ft - he also has invisibility skill and neikung projection chi blasts. He can speak to gods and can make it rain when it wants etc.

 

However the mopai system may have higher attainments in that at the higher levels u effectively turn into a ball of light cause each level u double ur power - 1000 volts at level 20, million volts at 30... so

 

And maybe chang has now reached level 30 or higher - can any indonesian students update us on his level.

 

AND he shoots fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse. . .

[qijack]

Tongkosong

 

Are the 2 signs at least signs to verify your on the right track?