DalTheJigsaw123 Posted December 6, 2011 http://www.bibleprobe.com/backfromthedead.htm The Remarkable Testimony of a Buddhist monk in Myanmar (Burma ) who died and went to hell. "True story" He rose from the dead a changed man! http://www.bibleprobe.com/backfromthedead.htm I make no claims that this video is true or false that is up to the viewer to decide. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG4fKH_SI5g&feature=player_embedded Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unseen_Abilities Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) - Edited January 31, 2014 by Unseen_Abilities 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mandrake Posted December 6, 2011 I remember this story circulating a couple of years ago. I think it is the responsibility of every sane man and woman today to research stories before spreading them around. It was denounced then as a fraud and still is a fraud. Some links out of many: Christians debunk the story: http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/resurrected_monk.html Buddhist investigation: http://www.buddha.sg/htm/general/faq01.htm http://dhammaprotector.blogspot.com/2009/04/athet-pyan-shinthaw-paulu-back-from.html 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted December 6, 2011 A christian monk on hell and it's use to control people..Ed 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birch Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) Right, because people need controlling or they'd all do terrible things. The way I read the TTC is that people only need controlling (or coercion) when they "lose Dao". So if you're a ruler of some kind whose culture/civilisation requires a loss of Dao to function (for you and your buddies) you ought to start making shit up to justify whatever you're doing. Thing is, we can concede that not everything can be explained at any given time because we can't observe all in all cases. Causality eludes us so it's only a matter of degree and attribution to convince. Frightenly such causality then becomes real for many. Edit: I went through it again. Does this guy still have a job? The piece makes it look like he's allowed to say what Christ is "really" about to his "flock" while admitting to the journalist that what the organisation he represents is about is "control". The church scene shows him telling his congregation about personal responsability. Ok, now I'm confused, is the message "it's your own fault you gave up your personal control to us"? Y'know, history, forgetting... Edited December 6, 2011 by -K- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 6, 2011 Very well put. I liked what he had to say. He seems very grounded, understanding exactly what his tradition is and what does, but also understanding the limitations of it and any other system. +1 from me. Aaron 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.broken. Posted December 6, 2011 A christian monk on hell and it's use to control people.. Ed Yep, there's a good reason why Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in Hell! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted December 6, 2011 What is more interesting to me than belief in heaven or hell or Buddha or Christ and so on.... is simply to investigate the whole concept of belief - what is it? Why do we need it? How does it help or hurt us? Is it necessary? Can one live without it? And so on... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted December 6, 2011 http://www.bibleprobe.com/backfromthedead.htm The Remarkable Testimony of a Buddhist monk in Myanmar (Burma ) who died and went to hell. "True story" He rose from the dead a changed man! http://www.bibleprobe.com/backfromthedead.htm I make no claims that this video is true or false that is up to the viewer to decide. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG4fKH_SI5g&feature=player_embedded Evangelists spew this kind of crap in non-christian countries to try and convert the indigenous populations. And of course it is complete bullshit! Lake of fire my ass! They do it everywhere except in muslim countries. You know why? Tats because the muslim countries wont tolerate this bs and the proselytizers miht end up in a real lake of fire... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted December 6, 2011 http://theoryofeverythingcomics.com/god/DM/index.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konchog uma Posted December 6, 2011 The Remarkable Testimony of a Buddhist monk in Myanmar (Burma ) who died and went to hell. "True story" He rose from the dead a changed man! That reeks of church propaganda. Personally, I don't trust anything evangelical christians say. I have never heard of a NDE like that either. Very suspicious. I think its church lies constructed especially for buddhists. sheesh if you look at the essene order or kabalistic philosophy, its got more in common with esoteric buddhism than it does with modern christianity. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted December 7, 2011 Hmmnnn.. Guess G-d is only resurrecting Buddhist monks these days.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DalTheJigsaw123 Posted December 7, 2011 A christian monk on hell and it's use to control people.. Ed This was great! Thank you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shizukanako Posted December 7, 2011 Evangelists spew this kind of crap in non-christian countries to try and convert the indigenous populations. And of course it is complete bullshit! Lake of fire my ass! They do it everywhere except in muslim countries. You know why? Tats because the muslim countries wont tolerate this bs and the proselytizers miht end up in a real lake of fire... I'm sure some minority of evangelists do, and its always the bad ones that get the attention, just like any other group. Most missionaries (and I have known a few) do not attempt to coerce anyone. But really, who wants to report on what the charity I volunteer at is doing, when Fred Phelps is so much juicier? Muslim countries vary in what they permit to be said, but they are fairly universal in that you dont get to say much at all promoting ANY non-Muslim faith. I really hope you don't see that as positive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted December 7, 2011 I'm sure some minority of evangelists do, and its always the bad ones that get the attention, just like any other group. Most missionaries (and I have known a few) do not attempt to coerce anyone. But really, who wants to report on what the charity I volunteer at is doing, when Fred Phelps is so much juicier? Muslim countries vary in what they permit to be said, but they are fairly universal in that you dont get to say much at all promoting ANY non-Muslim faith. I really hope you don't see that as positive. I've seen enough of this in my home country (india) which interestingly is considered a "harvest ground" for "saving souls". Whats really bad is that many evangelical groups operate in subversive ways in rural areas, among borderline illiterate people and try to cenvert them using sneaky techniques... As far as muslim countries are concerned...i think they are right about preventing organised conversion campaigns. There should be laws against tht everywhere. However there should be freedom to practice religion as an inividual freedom, so long as it does not involve organised proselytizing and conversion. If one gets to a stage in their lif where any particular religion is attractive for valid reasons, they should be free to choose...but not in the way it is done by destroying native cultures and traditions. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulno Posted December 7, 2011 Spong has always been one of the most progressive scholars of the Christian faith. He has some very interesting lectures and articles. One that I found to be maybe of interest here is him speaking about a time he knelt in prayer with Buddhist Monks. I wish more would follow his example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shizukanako Posted December 7, 2011 I've seen enough of this in my home country (india) which interestingly is considered a "harvest ground" for "saving souls". Whats really bad is that many evangelical groups operate in subversive ways in rural areas, among borderline illiterate people and try to cenvert them using sneaky techniques... As far as muslim countries are concerned...i think they are right about preventing organised conversion campaigns. There should be laws against tht everywhere. However there should be freedom to practice religion as an inividual freedom, so long as it does not involve organised proselytizing and conversion. If one gets to a stage in their lif where any particular religion is attractive for valid reasons, they should be free to choose...but not in the way it is done by destroying native cultures and traditions. "Organizing" is bad how? Speaking freely is speaking freely, whether its is spur of the moment or planned with a group of 50 people a week in advance. I'd sooner run the risk of hearing something I did not want to on the street and walking away, than having to worry about whether sharing my ideas was legal or not. Just because you dont like a particular freedom, is not a good reason to surrender it to the government, because I doubt you'll ever get it back. Is there any risk to your life or well-being if you challenge these missionaries intellectually? If not, have them account for what they are saying, since you see them often enough. Threatening people with Hell is wrong. Find out who they work through and lodge a complaint. Educate the people that they are dealing with. Just standing by and being angry isn't helping anything. "Destroying native cultures and traditions" sounds a bit far-fetched, unless these missionaries are going beyond exchanging ideas. And honestly, if they are that rooted in their native culture, I doubt they will be swayed by other ideas. I know someone will probably want to take this the wrong way, but please understand that what I mean here is purely from a point of thought, not a condemnation of anyone's culture. If their beliefs are so feeble that they become spooked by someone telling them they are going to Hell, what good was their belief to begin with? I'd be willing to bet that even though these people are under-educated, they still possess a reasonable degree of insight and wisdom, possibly more so. More than likely they are just poor and see Christianity as a way out, especially since the missionaries are most probably handing out food and medical care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) "Organizing" is bad how? Speaking freely is speaking freely, whether its is spur of the moment or planned with a group of 50 people a week in advance. I'd sooner run the risk of hearing something I did not want to on the street and walking away, than having to worry about whether sharing my ideas was legal or not. Just because you dont like a particular freedom, is not a good reason to surrender it to the government, because I doubt you'll ever get it back. Indeed....share your ideas, as an individual, with your friends or acquaintances. But organized "sharing" of the idea, often in subversive ways is a travesty. First and foremost, the premise of proselytizing is that there is a deficiency in the "others" and the corollary thereof is that "my way is the best way". Isn't it a fact that driving force being missionary activity is to "bring the non-believers to the light"? Isn't it also therefore an insight into the ideology that gives rise to such activism? (ie "if you don't believe in what I do, you will suffer in eternal hell?") Is there any risk to your life or well-being if you challenge these missionaries intellectually? If not, have them account for what they are saying, since you see them often enough. Threatening people with Hell is wrong. Find out who they work through and lodge a complaint. Educate the people that they are dealing with. Just standing by and being angry isn't helping anything. It is not possible to challenge these missionaries intellectually. You know why? Because once you go into the realm of "blind faith", no amount of intellectual reasoning will hold water. The concept is very black-and-white, especially in case of abrahamic religions. If you don't believe, you are a non-believer. if you are a non-believer, you will burn in hell. Tell me if that's not the common understanding based on which all proselytizing rises from... "Destroying native cultures and traditions" sounds a bit far-fetched, unless these missionaries are going beyond exchanging ideas. And honestly, if they are that rooted in their native culture, I doubt they will be swayed by other ideas. I know someone will probably want to take this the wrong way, but please understand that what I mean here is purely from a point of thought, not a condemnation of anyone's culture. If their beliefs are so feeble that they become spooked by someone telling them they are going to Hell, what good was their belief to begin with? I'd be willing to bet that even though these people are under-educated, they still possess a reasonable degree of insight and wisdom, possibly more so. More than likely they are just poor and see Christianity as a way out, especially since the missionaries are most probably handing out food and medical care. The problem is in subversive methods used. Yes, many of these people are simple and trusting. Once you gain their trust, they will believe almost anything. There are activities performed such as "throwing an idol of the native deity in water, along with a wooden cross". The cross is designed to float and the deity doesn't. The argument used is "my god's power is greater since his symbol didn't sink...your god is fake because the idol sank to the bottom of the lake". It seems absurd but this has been used widely in certain rural areas in India by missionaries. Another is throw the auspices of missionary institutions. People are actually incentivized to convert with "bribes" of advantages and opportunities that are not extended to those who don't. For someone who is starving or struggling to get a bag of rice, it's not much of an option (ie starve or convert). I'm giving extreme examples but the reality is more or less in the realm of these extremities. Any missionary who tries to convert me will give up his religion if he is open to debating with me. But I won't do that to another person and I expect them to respect my views and not try to convert me. One intellectual who has very meticulously studied this phenomenon of missionary intervention in foreign cultures is Rajiv Malhotra and you might want to read his academically documented and meticulously collected data in this book -- http://www.amazon.co...23297701&sr=8-2 Another book is titled "Being Different" which dissects the effect of this intervention in a geo-political landscape. You can get this book here -- http://www.amazon.co...23297701&sr=8-1 Both of these books are available in kindle ebook format. Why don't you give it a shot to understand the scale of the activities and the magnitude of the impact on a Native culture. In a world where the norm is Western Universalism, where manageable differences are normalized and subsumed, elevating concepts and practices are secularized and digested, while incompatible differences, even if superior, are subverted and annihilated, this book reverses the gaze and takes a fresh look at Western Universalism with the view of Hinduism. <br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">Incessant push to conform to Western Universalism has created an anxiety in being different. This book is a must read for modern day Hindus who have this difference anxiety. <br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">Faced with a barrage of systematic and concerted Western criticism against Hinduism, many Hindus earnestly seek clarification, reconciliation, and even acceptance, by looking into the mirror of Western Universalism, not realizing that the premises which created this mirror leave no scope for positive reflection. Reversing the gaze breaks loose of this stupor by making explicit the weakness and biases of this mirror, pointing out that this mirror is bigoted and must be shunned.<br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">In a world where strategy and power dominates respect and empathetic consideration of alternative views, this is a much needed book for the young generation of Indians who are bombarded with negative images of their own culture and faith. Read this very readable book and let it lead you through a process of reversing the gaze to see where the real negatives are and to gain an understanding of subtle nuances of assimilation to normalize Hinduism where it agrees with Western Universalism and dissolve where it does not.<br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">To get you started, I will mention a notion touched upon in the book: the notion of religious tolerance in Western Universalism. Sounds like a great thought for a globalized mankind? Well, you have been normalized. <br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">Tolerance is a patronizing posture. Tolerance implies willingness to put up with differences with unequals. Tolerance implies control over those who do not conform to the norms set by us, by allowing them some, but not all, the rights and privileges enjoyed by us. What should the notion of tolerance be replaced with? Mutual Respect. Mutual respect merely means that you are respected for following your faith of choice without compulsion from others to follow it or practice it. <br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">Why cannot Western Universalism commit to Mutual Respect as a universal value instead of Tolerance? Perhaps, because Western "Universalism" is limited by bounds of Abrahamic faiths? Perhaps, because Abrahamic faiths are not allowed to respect other faiths? <br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; "><br style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; ">Alas, even tolerance is only a pretense. Inculturation effort (Christian Yoga, Christian Bharatanatyam etc.,) in India by Christian organizations appears on the surface to be a step towards tolerance but it is just a strategic move that paves way for eliminating differences through conversion. Think Christianity in India is tolerant? Ever hear of Nicene creed? Edited December 7, 2011 by dwai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
