Walking...Step By Step

[Alethaeia]

i have been an athlete all my life

my knees have seen far too much abuse, from aggressive bike riding, skateboarding and snowboarding to track running, basketball, and of course the random jumping around that any active child will do

such intense activity has taken it's toll, as i struggled for many years with intense knee pain (osgood-schlatters, we think)

this has led me to be a very mindful walker, as even normal walking was agonizing for much of my life

with my health practice and better diet, i have had much less pain, but then again i'm not pushing myself as much as i used to...

i am curious if there are specific ways to walk which can heal and straighten the legs and offer sustained output of energy, e.g. walking 10+ miles in one day

any input is welcome

~

[thelerner]

After a decade or so in the martial arts I worry about my knees too. One site I like Marks Daily Apple said walking is anti inflammatory for the whole body and heartily recommended it for weightlifters. He may be right, walking doesn't burn many calories but long walkers tend to be a healthier bunch.

 

In his book "Pathnotes of a Ninaja Grandmaster" (bad tittle, good book) Glenn Morris discusses different styles of walking. Some styles he liked were gorilla walk, same hand and foot moving together as well as keeping the 'stepping' foot weightless until the body weight shifts forward.

 

Lots of walking meditation styles too like simple slow awareness to one breath every 32 steps. When its safe I'll walk with my eyes closed and only open them in a quick blink every 30 or so steps.

 

After seated meditation Ya Mu (Michael Lomax) has a long rub down routine. One thing is vigorously circling and rubbing the knee area. Its good. I find saunas loosen up the knees nicely too. It seems most people gain a huge degree of temporary flexibility in the sauna, making them an ideal place to sit in meditation.

Edited December 8, 2011 by thelerner

[Alethaeia]

funny you mentioned closing your eyes...

when i used to run all the time (30-40 mi./week) i would close my eyes for as long as i could without getting really scared, then open them for a moment, very much like what you described

but ummm........one breath every 32 steps?! that seems pretty long...

i have been working with breathing in 4 steps / out 4 steps = 8 step breath, feels good probably because it's the first time ive ever structured my walking with my breath

i want my legs to be healthy and they still need some healing

step by step...

[Aetherous]

Maybe not walking 10 miles per day would be good for your knees. Overuse can cause or worsen injuries. Just an idea.

[zanshin]

Keep your knees soft, don't lock or let them do a little pop back when you put weight on the leg, engage the quad to cushion and control extension rather than relying on inert structures. Often "bad knees" have quad weakness and people bend the hip just a little to make momentum for extension. Foot should hit on outer quadrant of heel, but don't stick or clump the heel feel light on your feet, right away the foot should be rolling all the way through to push off the big toe. If you start walking better without heel stomping your calves will probably get sore so agree on rec to cut down from 10 miles a day and work on quality.

 

 

http://sportsmedinfo.net/kinesiology-taping/249-patellar-tendinitis

Edited December 9, 2011 by zanshin

[Alethaeia]

ah yes it is very nice to hear this, it affirms what i have been intuitively practicing, i.e. not locking my knees and walking soft (being a ninja in the forest >

unfortunately for comfort's sake, my legs are the only transportation i have, save for a skateboard which isn't usually practical and i don't feel like carrying it around

so i sort of have to walk miles a day

to be clear, is it best to roll around the outer edge of my foot as i stride? that's what i've been doing because it seems to help

thank you so much for your replies ^__^

~

Edited December 13, 2011 by Alethaeia

[Gerard]

i am curious if there are specific ways to walk which can heal and straighten the legs and offer sustained output of energy, e.g. walking 10+ miles in one day

any input is welcome

 

Bad news:

 

It is not the legs what you really damaged (perceived pain) but your entire energetic system: physical, mental, psychic, karmic and spiritual (real pain).

 

Good news:

 

1. It can be fixed

 

2. It is going to take you many years/decades of spiritual and energetic work

 

3. There are fast and slow methods, which I have experience with

 

Fast:

 

1. Pole standing/Zhan Zhuang for a minimum of 1 h (you need to build it up progressively)

 

Plus either of the following two:

 

2. Baguazhang (ultra fast)

3. Taijiquan (a bit slower)

 

2 & 3 require finding a teacher that teaches the real art not a watered down method with no real neigong in it (not easy)

 

Slow:

 

1. Vipassana

2. Other Qigong methods

 

 

Any method will require sitting meditation practice, plus:

 

1. Healthy and quiet lifestyle preferably near or within the natural environment

2. Go to bed early and no late dinner

3. Refrain from alcohol consumption and any other intoxicants

4. Limit or remove highly processed food from your diet

5. Limit or eliminate sexual activity if you are really serious in speeding up recovery process

6. Find a diet that suits "you" (trial and error here or see a qualified professional for advice, not easy though)

 

++Optional:

 

7. Herbs and/or quality Chinese tea on a daily basis

8. Acupuncture (if you can afford it)

9. Tui na/shiatsu massage (as number 8)

 

Extra: Send me $20 for this advice so I can finance my trip to Huashan mountain next year (I hope I won't miss my flight this time, hehehe).

 

Good luck.

[zanshin]

ah yes it is very nice to hear this, it affirms what i have been intuitively practicing, i.e. not locking my knees and walking soft (being a ninja in the forest >

unfortunately for comfort's sake, my legs are the only transportation i have, save for a skateboard which isn't usually practical and i don't feel like carrying it around

so i sort of have to walk miles a day

to be clear, is it best to roll around the outer edge of my foot as i stride? that's what i've been doing because it seems to help

thank you so much for your replies ^__^

~

Kinematic ideal is land on outer part of heel, then roll thru foot to push off with big toe. Also try shoes with less heel rise (minimalist) or even walking barefoot if weather permits, typical athletic shoes are 11mm+ heel rise which creates an anterior sheer at the knee. With as much walking as you do though, transition to less heel rise gradually because this too will make your calves sore as your body gets accustomed to it, but should help your knees feel better.

[mYTHmAKER]

I would go to a doctor who specializes in sports medicine to find out exactly what the problem is.

Most likely he/she will give you a prescription for physical therapy. You will then be given specific exercises

for strengthening the muscles around you knees and correction of your posture and method of walking.

After that perhaps Pilates.

[C T]

This company specializes in aiding those experiencing difficulties in mobility due to injuries etc.

 

http://www.hanger.com/orthotics/services/WalkAide/Pages/WalkAide.aspx

[mYTHmAKER]

This company specializes in aiding those experiencing difficulties in mobility due to injuries etc.

 

http://www.hanger.co...s/WalkAide.aspx

 

Amazing

[Sloppy Zhang]

Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but B.K. Frantzis talks about this in his book "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body". Basically, he stresses how the knee is a weight TRANSFERENCE joint, NOT a weight BEARING joint. But since many people are out of touch with their bodies and get into some crazy sports positions, and since it's apparently a pretty easy shortcut, we find ourselves just letting our weight drop only as far as our knees.

 

Can't say I've had any knee problems in my life, but always been a bit stiff in the legs, and when I started to become aware of my body, I noticed how my tendency was to feel weight pooling in the knees.

 

Basically, you've got to set yourself up so as you move your weight is going right down into your foot. When moving (in the book its taught via a kwa squat, but I extrapolate this to everyday life) you shouldn't feel your knee at all. The weight should transfer and go straight down to the foot be be absorbed through the ground. If you're feeling it in other places, it means you're shocking your system.

 

I don't really have a good way of explaining how you do it. I never learned from an in-person teacher, so don't know what to tell you Just play with your body (sounds dirty....), your lower back, kwa, knees, ankle, and foot, and find a configuration that works for you.

 

So in some sense, you're going to have to "re-learn" almost everything you want to do. But I think once you do that, and once you can make it second nature, you'll be set for life. I'm still young so I don't think about it as much as I should, but as soon as I start feeling stuff in my knees, I always reorient my position.

[Alethaeia]

thank you all so much for your replies

it will be an interesting and informative process no doubt

hmm, curious that you bring that up Zhang, because i almost always feel weight on my knees

i guess i have alot to learn!

[idquest]

I've been looking into correct walking a lot recently. My study started from posture correction and continued to all other activities.

 

The problem is that if you walk in a wrong way you do more harm to the body than good. I first read this idea in one of the Egoscue's books, I was really surprised to read this. But after giving it some thought I now agree that incorrect walking can be really bad for knees, hips, ankles, and so on. In most cases, knee pain results from misalignments during walking.

 

For the theory I recommend reading Egoscue. He explaines with clarity how body mechanics works. He also has corrective exercises for different types of misalignments.

 

For practice I'd recommend two things:

 

- Feldenkries or Hannah. Among their numerous amazing lessons there is a lesson "Walking" where they re-teach body how to walk the right way.

 

- Foundation Roots - many thanks to Scotty for bringing this up some time ago. Many people (including myself) have weak back, butts, and hips muscles due to sedentary lifestyle. This program dramatically trains these specific groups of muscles which allows correct walking alignment.

[zanshin]

A couple sites on running form, the ideas carry over at least somewhat to walking.

 

http://www.posetech.com

http://www.chirunning.com

 

They talk about getting rid of heel strike, but in walking will be some heel strike, but as you walk faster should be more toward the midfoot. If you are walking 10 mile you probably walking at a pretty good clip to get where you are going. As you walk faster do you take longer strides and hit even more back on your heel? Try shorter strides and quicker rhythm, impact should shift forward on foot a little. I've improved both time and distance in running with less soreness in running (except my damn calves at first but over that now), using these techniques.

 

One drill we've been using that might help you to make some observations about your walking form too, is have someone put an elastic training band- or a long wide belt or folded beach towel should work too around the top of your pelvic bones and hold it and keep pulling you back a little as they walk behind you. Idea is to keep your center consistently constantly moving forward, should help you feel if you are sticking at any point in your gait, bouncing up and down, any excessive hip swing or rotation, then work on making those parts smoother. Forward, light, light, quick, quick.

[Mal]

How should a human walk?

 

Without shoes

[Alethaeia]

aye, it feels lovely to be bare footed

however, i live in a rainforest...it's just not practical most of the time

i have been walking alot lately, and it feels like i'm getting better;

less pain, and prolonged ease of movement

feels good ^__^

thanks for your replies!

[Alethaeia]

hmm, not sure about the policy here on necro-posting, but i figure i may as well just revive this thread instead of starting a whole new one...

 

This just in:

 

- MY KNEES DON'T HURT ANYMORE !!! -

 

a couple of weeks ago, i noticed that the knee pain which had plagued me for the past fifteen years, is completely absent!

YAY !

i have been practicing conscious walking more and more, it's becoming second nature, so to speak.

and apparently it's paying off : )

lately i've been able to skateboard, play lots of footbag(hackysack),

ride bikes *the way i actually want to* (see: "bmx street")

and i actually got to snowboard Mt Hood this past season!

so i'm unspeakably relieved and joyful about this

thank you for your replies in this thread, they were very helpful!

much love and Light and bliss to all the TaoBums <3