The trickery of demons

[Informer]

Let's say you are consorting with something that is not of this plane. This entity says that it is your ancestor, how do you know if it is telling the truth? How do you know that you aren't being duped into subservience. I mean from a demons perspective, what better way to get a living entity to do your bidding?

 

This is the problem I see with lineages, if people do live on after death then there are malicious and malevolent entities as well as kind and loving ones. How do you know you are consorting with your ancestor or a demon? Even more than that, how do you know it's not just your imagination?

 

I'll admit I've seen some pretty extraordinary things, although I have never assumed any of it was anything other than unknown.

[Enishi]

Part of being able to discern between various types of spirits is dependent on your skill with remote sensing, and also the refinement of your conscious and subconscious personality traits, which filters how much you can see.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Enishi

[Marks of Glory]

[Jetsun]

Let's say you are consorting with something that is not of this plane. This entity says that it is your ancestor, how do you know if it is telling the truth? How do you know that you aren't being duped into subservience. I mean from a demons perspective, what better way to get a living entity to do your bidding?

 

This is the problem I see with lineages, if people do live on after death then there are malicious and malevolent entities as well as kind and loving ones. How do you know you are consorting with your ancestor or a demon? Even more than that, how do you know it's not just your imagination?

 

I'll admit I've seen some pretty extraordinary things, although I have never assumed any of it was anything other than unknown.

 

I have heard said that in Ayahuasca Shamanism if you come across a spirit and you are unsure about their intentions you can just straight up ask them if they are your ally or not and they will answer honestly.

 

I'm not sure that would personally satisfy me but after than then I guess you can treat them like you would any person you met in the real world and judge them on their actions and what they tell you, if they help you heal someone or heal yourself then you can be pretty confident they are there to help you. Or you could take the Tibetan Chod Shamanism approach and just give the Demons what they want and give them compassion anyway despite their intentions.

 

In my own experience with Ayahuasca and Shamanism "Demons" control you by making you afraid of them so you do all you can to avoid them and run away from them, but then if you turn around and face them and look them in the eye they loose their power over you.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Jetsun

[Marks of Glory]

more videos.. this time from UMBANDA religion.. in english...

 

 

oh about demons.....

 

so..... demons are the only creatures that will do whatever you ask them to do...

 

the light spirits will do only things that are in accord with God, they don`t bow down to humans...

 

the demons are in nasty dimensions... and they want to get out of there... if you use the demons to do good things (charity, cures, etc) you will help them to evolve and leave their nasty dimension.... you evolve with them.... if you ask them to do nasty things. they will get more stuck there.. and so are you...

 

incorporation and using of demons are good for dirty dark curing works, like helping a methamphetmine junkie (alot of vices), etc... and curing black magic also...

[Marks of Glory]

Umbanda

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umbruhleiPc&feature=related

[.broken.]

the demons are in nasty dimensions... and they want to get out of there... if you use the demons to do good things (charity, cures, etc) you will help them to evolve and leave their nasty dimension.... you evolve with them.... if you ask them to do nasty things. they will get more stuck there.. and so are you...

 

Is it not the case that some demons can think of themselves as separate from 'One-ness'/God and want themselves to be worshipped or listened to?

 

I do not think all demons are helpful as you say they are. Although I do agree that we can help them to evolve.

 

It is reasonable to assume that they lie to their get own way, particularly so if they are in more unforgiving dimensions where hate, anger, selfishness, pain etc. are more commonplace.

[Chang]

There used to be a saying that you are never alone with schizophrenia. I assume therefor that you are never alone with a demon.

 

It is nice to have someone to talk to!

[Protector]

To know for sure, you need to know your ancestor's soul

When body is gone and ego and memories are gone, there's soul left

That thing that never changes no matter what

[Birch]

Here we are assuming one's own ancestors were a conviently affable lot?

Seems that mine weren't all sweetness and light and some (even relatively recently) did or participated in some rotten stuff.

Maybe it wasn't considered "rotten" at the time but it was still rotten by human standards.

 

So, pondering the ancestors and me, I gotta ask, what business do they have in my life here today? If they think I'm going to right their wrongs, well hahaha. That would be like your grandfather attempting to track your career from your birth based on his unfulfilled aspirations. So no, unless my ancestors have cleaned up their act I doubt I'll be making pacts with them for personal gain any time soon. I suspect there are "proper" healing spirits that it's a better idea to "call upon". Or even just the person's own soul for example.

 

---- opinion alert ----

[Creation]

I have heard said that in Ayahuasca Shamanism if you come across a spirit and you are unsure about their intentions you can just straight up ask them if they are your ally or not and they will answer honestly.

Did you mean come across a spirit while on Ayahuasca? Because there are definitely beings that will lie whenever they can get away with it. And most people's mental filters and emotional issues make them deceivable. Perhaps it is a particular potency of Ayahuasca that it puts the user in a state where they are beyond all that and hence not decievable.

 

 

Or you could take the Tibetan Chod Shamanism approach and just give the Demons what they want and give them compassion anyway despite their intentions.

Maybe Machig Labdron or someone initiated in her lineage can get away with this, or someone who has worked through all their emotional issues, mental filters, and energetic leaks and is very highly spiritually developed, but otherwise I don't think this is a good idea.

 

That is, if it really is a demon. But that's the whole question here I guess.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Creation

[Jetsun]

Did you mean come across a spirit while on Ayahuasca? Because there are definitely beings that will lie whenever they can get away with it. And most people's mental filters and emotional issues make them deceivable. Perhaps it is a particular potency of Ayahuasca that it puts the user in a state where they are beyond all that and hence not decievable.

 

Yeah while under Ayahuasca, it could be the rules are different then I don't know

 

Maybe Machig Labdron or someone initiated in her lineage can get away with this, or someone who has worked through all their emotional issues, mental filters, and energetic leaks and is very highly spiritually developed, but otherwise I don't think this is a good idea.

 

That is, if it really is a demon. But that's the whole question here I guess.

 

It appears the Tibetan Yogi's had various ways of approaching demons, Padmasambhava apparently used his siddhi powers sometimes wrathfully to overcome them and tame the demons of Tibet so Buddhism could flourish there.

 

If you want to read some funny stories about how to deal with them you should look into how Drukpa Kunley tamed the demons of Bhutan, one story which has been enshrined in Bhutanese legend is how he lured one hostile demon to a house in a valley and when the demon came to the door he put his penis through the keyhole and shot it in the eye, if you go to Bhutan even today they have statues of his penis everywhere because of it's demon subduing power, I wouldn't try that technique at home though.

[C T]

 

If you want to read some funny stories about how to deal with them you should look into how Drukpa Kunley tamed the demons of Bhutan, one story which has been enshrined in Bhutanese legend is how he lured one hostile demon to a house in a valley and when the demon came to the door he put his penis through the keyhole and shot it in the eye, if you go to Bhutan even today they have statues of his penis everywhere because of it's demon subduing power, I wouldn't try that technique at home though.

:lol:

[rex]

This guy has some interesting things to say on the matter:

 

Should you be spirit friendly?

[Marks of Glory]

[Marks of Glory]

From all the "teacher plants" Ayahuasca is in 1st place, on top of peiote and amanita muscaria even...

 

is activates ajna and sahasrara chakra if you`re lucky as i was rsrsrs...

 

oh and opens your mediumity also... you feel entities alright (of course.. depending on the sensitivity of the one that took it... but for an alchemist = very much strong rsrs...

 

If you`re pure of heart you will know how not to be deceived by demons... you identify what is ego and what is not (by intuition)

[Seth Ananda]

Just treat them like people. When you meet a person, what does your Intuition tell you? What are they like?

What tendencies do they encourage in you?

Do they want you to do things you wouldn't feel right about?

How do you feel after you spend some time with them?

 

Points to remember:

 

Like friends in this world, make friends in the others, and do things for them regularly, without always asking for something in return. I find this easiest with Beings I naturally like. They can detect your sincerity, and things go a lot smoother with beings you have developed a relationship with, often in surprising ways...

 

Some entities will feed you a surplus of energy initially to get you to keep coming back, to cement the relationship, but then they start to draw energy from you, or their requirements [offerings] start to far outweigh the positive returns...

 

Some 'demons' are purely hostile and 'seem' to have no interest in you.

 

Some 'demons' are very open to Interacting, and are honest enough, as long as you fulfil your ends of any arangement made...

 

Some 'demons' are less honest, and may try to get you to do things for them before they do their thing, which they never carry out. Apart from whatever you do or give to call them, never enter a bargain that Involves you doing your part first...

 

Always carry out your part of any deal to the letter, not doing this once is usually enough to make sure you never make this mistake again...

 

Interacting with demons can be very toxic to the psyche. Sometimes just associating with them can bring out demonic tendencies in your self. This can give unparalleled opportunities for personal growth and self knowledge, or it can turn you into an evil little shit... [hopefully just for a period] be warned...

 

There are lots of different kinds of beings, many who are happy to relate and exchange with humans. Obviously that means that certain beings have preferences for certain things over others when it comes to pacts. For instance there are very refined loving Nature spirits, and there are also nature spirits who are a bit darker, and want Blood offerings for their services... Same goes for the probably thousands of variety's of spirits in existence...

 

Some want {or maybe respond is a better way to say it for these lighter beings} to loving attention, some want sexual energy, some want food, some want music or smells, some want blood, some want sacrifice, some want certain actions in the world...

 

Some beings have such high refined vibrations that any time with them is deeply spiritually uplifting/healing/rewarding... They rarely 'want' anything, but if you do 'feed' them love and appreciation, they will surely return their own high frequency love and attention to you...

[3bob]

No, you do not treat demons like regular people, for in comparison a very high percentage of us "people" can be reached through people like means being that we have various degrees of conscience and inate humanity. The primary nature of a demon does not include degrees of human conscience or humanity... what demons do understand and have some wariness of is the human being who is also a spiritual warrior of truth and strong spiritual power that knows how to use it, thus to deal with them in any other way is more or less fools play.

Edited January 18, 2012 by 3bob

[Seth Ananda]

Informers question contained an element of how do I know if it is my ancestor or a demon?

 

I say approach all the beings you meet in the same way you meet humans. Intuition and careful observation serve best.

 

There is no cut and dry category that says - 'All beings of such and such a nature are demons, and all demons act in this particular way all the time...'

Actual regular experience will quickly cure one of such errors for it is just not a black and white issue.

 

Also there are Humans that act like demons, and ones that act like saints, and funnily enough that is also how it is on the other levels. As above so below, as below so above...

 

There are so many different kinds of beings that I am not sure I would even bother with the word demon for most, and any categorising system is purely arbitrary.

 

Demon is a fairly loose term multiculturaly... It could mean pure evil or just a being that always serves itself first, It could be from the pits of hell or just a spirit that doesn't like you personally, A wandering po that has lost its mind might be called a demon by some, and simply a crazy lost po by others...

 

And again, there are so many different spirit categories in different cultures, and they dont all fit neatly together... Its a weird world out there

[Friend]

"Evil Ancestor Spirit"

[phore]

I agree with what seth said on this matter, as it seems an accurate representation of my experiences.

 

I would add that some schools of thought suggest that while using teacher plants might open up esp, they also leave you open to capricious influence.

 

Honesty is not the strong point of the creatures of darkness.

[Cheshire Cat]

Let's say you are consorting with something that is not of this plane. This entity says that it is your ancestor, how do you know if it is telling the truth? How do you know that you aren't being duped into subservience. I mean from a demons perspective, what better way to get a living entity to do your bidding?

 

This is the problem I see with lineages, if people do live on after death then there are malicious and malevolent entities as well as kind and loving ones. How do you know you are consorting with your ancestor or a demon? Even more than that, how do you know it's not just your imagination?

 

I'll admit I've seen some pretty extraordinary things, although I have never assumed any of it was anything other than unknown.

 

I like your thoughts because they make sense. Unfortunately, very few people test their comprehension on

this topic and they decide to be happy with some praeter-natural phenomena.

 

For some,spirits and ghosts cannot lie. This the case of John Chang as Kosta Danaos reported.

For others, they should undertake some tests in order to verify their identity and check if they have the proper knowledge.

For example, you can ask them to write their names in astral matter... it is said that a spirit cannot write

the name of another entity, unless it is strictly related to him.

In order to do this you can use a black mirror or a crystal ball.

 

What I think it is best is to have a spiritual ally, a guide or a deity that you can trust and

ask him to check the spirit. This is the way of the shamans.

 

SO, the most important thing is to have a qualified "link" to an entity you can trust. A guru, a master shaman,

a taoist wizard... and you should learn from them the way to interact.

 

In the case in which you are forced to interact with a spirit and you don't know if he is what he claims to be,

then you can only see if it produces positive effects in your life or not. That's the way of the newagers... sometimes it works. =)

[Marks of Glory]

Oh... you can be sure that if your purpose with cultivation is pure, your guide will appear in no time if a tricster demon tries anything bad with you...

 

 

one thing that I think alot about is this... some times i have very strong spiritual experiences, and i don`t know if i have them by a good being or a demon

 

(the good being would give me osme experiences to show me that I am on the right path... and the demon, would give me some experiences for me to continue on this path (that is wrong and blind))

 

maybe it's just paranoia rsrs

[KarthusMeanor]

Too bad the guy got permaban for standing up to the opressors!