What Is Non-Duality ?

[Marblehead]

Calls himself "Marblehead" to belie a soft heart. Atones for his past by kind support of the present and future. Don't take no bullshit, maybe a little bluegrass.

 

There we go:-)

 

Hehehe. Not too bad!

[Marblehead]

Oh thr paradox of human condition. Senss...cant live with them...cant live without them ;P

 

Agree. And this is a deep subject but to discuss it would take this thread off topic.

 

Well, what the heck, I will say something.

 

We do have to rely on our senses. But then we have to remember that all we are observings with these senses are outer appearances. These can offer us much misinformation at times because we are no where near the totality of what it is we are observing.

[Marblehead]

Well, it seems that higher or lower is being transposed to better or worse. Is a higher note better than a lower one? Is a circle better than a square?

 

Oh shit!!! The man is getting down and dirty!!!

 

(Actually, the questions are fantastic!)

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

Cool.. well, by all means, enjoy yourself.. even though i feel a little dirty after witnessing your affair with your own self-image.. oh, and the "Conspiracy of Mediocity", sound's a lot like you're trying to justify your 'affair'..

 

Be well..

 

Hehehe. But then I suppose that most of us are stuck on ourself in one form or another.

 

I think compassion arises out of fulness, not emptiness. Just my opinion.

 

But wait! We were talking about non-duality. Never mind.

[Vmarco]

[3bob]

 

In a certain state of realization one sees creations coming and going which to me is simialr to the saying, "nirvana is samsara, correctly understood" - Nagarjuna. Obviously I don't mind quotes now and then, for instance here are some more along these lines:

 

"To deny the reality of things is to miss their reality; to assert the emptiness of things is to miss their reality.

The more you talk and think about it, the further astray you wander from the truth. Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know". by Hsin Hsin Ming

 

and or,

 

Teaching of "Non-form" indicates non-attachment to form. Misinterpreted, it is adopted as holding to absence of form. Abiding in no forms at all, one falls into the abyss of void. Only in no grasping to form or non-form lies true liberation. by Yutang Lin

Edited December 18, 2011 by 3bob

[Aaron]

I think perhaps the problem that arises is that we fail to understand that duality arises from non-duality, simply because non-duality isn't without substance, but rather it is a single substance without form that encompasses everything. In that sense, because when we experience it we are not experiencing it with our five senses, but rather our consciousness or sixth sense, we perceive it to be empty, rather than simply being one absolute thing without any form to perceive it with. It is easier to describe as empty or void, or numerous other phrases, because the concept of a single totality being the force of creation, that in actuality emptiness and void come from something, seems to contradict what the rational man might think.

 

We perceive that the chicken came from nothing and then had the egg, but perhaps the chicken came to being from something?

 

Anyways, that's what I've been thinking about lately.

 

Aaron

 

(I was able to set up a router at the place I'm staying, so I'll be able to get on the forum during my stay here.)

[9th]

even though i feel a little dirty after witnessing your affair with your own self-image..

 

I wonder what would cause such a weakness...

[voidisyinyang]

If people want to steep themselves in nonduality then this book is a must-read -- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573923591/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=wwwdavidloyor-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1573923591

 

Dr. David Loy's Nonduality a comparative analysis. I quote it in my masters thesis from 2000 on sound-current nondualism -- Epicenters of Justice. http://www.scribd.com/doc/39436920/Epicenters-of-Justice

 

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/themagazine/vol12/articles/epi-justice1.shtml

 

Here's some more fascinating info:

 

Begin with religious beliefs. A striking proportion of rain forest dwellers are polytheistic, worshipping an array of spirits and gods. Polytheism is prevalent among tribes in the Amazon basin (the Sherenti, Mundurucu, and Tapirape) and in the rain forests of Africa (the Ndorobo), New Guinea (the Keraki and Ulawans), and Southeast Asia (the Iban of Borneo and the Mnong Gar and Lolo of Vietnam). But desert dwellers—the bedouin of Arabia, the Berbers of the western Sahara, the !Kung of the Kalahari Desert, the Nuer and Turkana of the Kenyan/Sudanese desert—are usually monotheistic. Of course, despite allegiances to a single deity, other supernatural beings may be involved, like angels and djinns and Satan. But the hierarchy is notable, with minor deities subservient to the Omnipotent One.

 

This division makes ecological sense. Deserts teach large, singular lessons, like how tough, spare, and withholding the environment is; the world is reduced to simple, desiccated, furnace-blasted basics. Then picture rain forest people amid an abundance of edible plants and medicinal herbs, able to identify more species of ants on a single tree than one would find in all the British Isles. Letting a thousand deities bloom in this sort of setting must seem natural. Moreover, those rain forest dwellers that are monotheistic are much less likely to believe that their god sticks his or her nose into other people’s business by controlling the weather, prompting illness, or the like. In contrast, the desert seems to breed fatalism, a belief in an interventionist god with its own capricious plans.

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/aug/desert-people

Edited December 19, 2011 by fulllotus

[Birch]

VM, was that a Ken Wilber quote?

 

I wonder, who is to be the judge of one's mediocre offering? Personally, I'm not convinced that perceived excellence is anything other than a rise to the values of the moment. If I don't rise because I disagree with current values, am I then inauthentic? I suppose I don't care.

[9th]

[voidisyinyang]

[9th]

You twisted up pretty good there, but I'm still not satisfied with your answer.

 

So what you are saying is, sitting full-lotus is better than a handful of crystal meth?

 

Hmmm.

[Vmarco]

VM, was that a Ken Wilber quote?

 

I wonder, who is to be the judge of one's mediocre offering? Personally, I'm not convinced that perceived excellence is anything other than a rise to the values of the moment. If I don't rise because I disagree with current values, am I then inauthentic? I suppose I don't care.

 

 

Yes,...Wilber.

http://www.wie.org/j22/gurupandit.asp?page=3&ifr=srch

 

As for you rising or not,...no problem,...except if you are disallowing others to rise.

 

Look at it through the lens of Maslows Hierarchy. Those into "just feelings" or the Conspiracy of Mediocrity, that is, the "practice has become nothing more than a form of therapy where self-acceptance rather than ego-transcendence is the goal,...and "nobody's allowed to be higher because that means someone else is going to be lower"...is like saying that no one is allowed to to be self-actualized, or self-transcendent.

 

V

[voidisyinyang]

Yes,...Wilber.

http://www.wie.org/j22/gurupandit.asp?page=3&ifr=srch

 

As for you rising or not,...no problem,...except if you are disallowing others to rise.

 

Look at it through the lens of Maslows Hierarchy. Those into "just feelings" or the Conspiracy of Mediocrity, that is, the "practice has become nothing more than a form of therapy where self-acceptance rather than ego-transcendence is the goal,...and "nobody's allowed to be higher because that means someone else is going to be lower"...is like saying that no one is allowed to to be self-actualized, or self-transcendent.

 

V

 

I debunked Ken Wilber in my masters thesis linked above. haha.

[voidisyinyang]

You twisted up pretty good there, but I'm still not satisfied with your answer.

 

So what you are saying is, sitting full-lotus is better than a handful of crystal meth?

 

Hmmm.

 

 

Wow quite a dualistic choice for the nondualism thread. haha. I did have precognition of my cousin's death from meth-related illness last summer. Surprised me when suddenly in full lotus I get this thought that she died and how strange a thought it was since I didn't even barely know her -- I had just seen her that summer briefly after many years of not seeing her. But she was just a few years older than me -- and then anyway later that day I was told she had died at the same time I had the thought. I mean her death was unexpected so that I thought she died was very strange.

[9th]

Wow quite a dualistic choice for the nondualism thread. haha. I did have precognition of my cousin's death from meth-related illness last summer. Surprised me when suddenly in full lotus I get this thought that she died and how strange a thought it was since I didn't even barely know her -- I had just seen her that summer briefly after many years of not seeing her. But she was just a few years older than me -- and then anyway later that day I was told she had died at the same time I had the thought. I mean her death was unexpected so that I thought she died was very strange.

 

hee hee ho ho ha ha ooh eeh ooh ah ah ching chang walla walla bing bang

 

better watch yourself old man, i only make promises

[voidisyinyang]

hee hee ho ho ha ha ooh eeh ooh ah ah ching chang walla walla bing bang

 

better watch yourself old man, i only make promises

 

Yeah it was strange when my mom called to tell me that my cousin had died.... the way I responded -- before I said anything -- just made some sounds -- she says: "You knew?" Because I did know already -- I had the thought that day that she had died. So then I had to admit the truth to her -- yes I did already know that she died. But that's the second time that's happened with my mom where she told me someone died but I had a thought-vision about the person even though I never thought of them normally at all. So both times I was not surprised to hear it and it just confirmed what I already thought. Precognition is always strange like that. I've had probably a dozen precognitive dreams now -- one dream happened in detail three years before and I wrote it down saying I thought it would predict the future....then it came true in specifics that could not in any way be coincidence -- I dreamt of my earth first activist friends standing on the roof of a house with Native American activists, holding a banner to protect a wooded area. Then the same photo appeared in the paper three years later.

[9th]

Yeah it was strange when my mom called to tell me that my cousin had died.... the way I responded -- before I said anything -- just made some sounds -- she says: "You knew?" Because I did know already -- I had the thought that day that she had died. So then I had to admit the truth to her -- yes I did already know that she died. But that's the second time that's happened with my mom where she told me someone died but I had a thought-vision about the person even though I never thought of them normally at all. So both times I was not surprised to hear it and it just confirmed what I already thought. Precognition is always strange like that. I've had probably a dozen precognitive dreams now -- one dream happened in detail three years before and I wrote it down saying I thought it would predict the future....then it came true in specifics that could not in any way be coincidence -- I dreamt of my earth first activist friends standing on the roof of a house with Native American activists, holding a banner to protect a wooded area. Then the same photo appeared in the paper three years later.

 

 

You sound so super-special and totally awesome, I wonder how long it takes you to get ready to go out? How much preening in front of the mirror does it take before you are comfortable with the way you look?

 

Hey, could you write another few pages of rambling nonsense about electromagnetism and sitting in the full-lotus position? I want to hear more about how you built a UFO from your own pubic hairs. Its pretty amusing stuff.

[voidisyinyang]

[9th]

like,

 

far out, man

[Patrick Brown]

You sound so super-special and totally awesome, I wonder how long it takes you to get ready to go out? How much preening in front of the mirror does it take before you are comfortable with the way you look?

 

Hey, could you write another few pages of rambling nonsense about electromagnetism and sitting in the full-lotus position? I want to hear more about how you built a UFO from your own pubic hairs. Its pretty amusing stuff.

:lol:

 

I can't stop laughing!

[Marblehead]

Me thinks 'non-duality' just got a few holes shot into it.

[Patrick Brown]

Deffinetly gone off-topic!

 

What was we talking about again?

 

Oh I remeber, DAM!

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=MSHr4ubuD64

[dwai]

Me thinks 'non-duality' just got a few holes shot into it.

The nagging quetion in my head however keeps repeting itself... How can you shoot something tht you cannot see?