IMA vs. MMA

[Yuen Biao]

On the subject of IMA v. MMA, I think at the very simplest level the focus is different.

MMA is an aggressive philosophy that denotes forcing the fight, in contrast the IMA exponent should not have the mentality to be the aggressor in a fight. The IMA only deals with the attack and subdues the opponent, so in practical terms this may often be difficult to see portrayed in the UFC.

 

From my experiences of training in Beijing, I've met some pretty amazing Taijiquan practitioners who can Fa Jing anyone with the slightest force. This is the ultimate goal of IMA and one that MMA competitiors are not concerned with; they focus on physical strength and force too much and I firmly believe that any IMA with sparring practise (Sanshou) would win easily by using their understanding of subtle techniques.

 

Well that's my short response anyhow.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Yuen Biao

[Sahaj Nath]

On the subject of IMA v. MMA, I think at the very simplest level the focus is different.

MMA is an aggressive philosophy that denotes forcing the fight, in contrast the IMA exponent should not have the mentality to be the aggressor in a fight. The IMA only deals with the attack and subdues the opponent, so in practical terms this may often be difficult to see portrayed in the UFC.

 

From my experiences of training in Beijing, I've met some pretty amazing Taijiquan practitioners who can Fa Jing anyone with the slightest force. This is the ultimate goal of IMA and one that MMA competitiors are not concerned with; they focus on physical strength and force too much and I firmly believe that any IMA with sparring practise (Sanshou) would win easily by using their understanding of subtle techniques.

 

Well that's my short response anyhow.

 

what you say is more or less true about the current state of MMA, but you're not taking into account its origins.

 

the UFC was created in the early-to-mid-90's to answer, once and for all, what style was the most powerful. it was winner-take-all. street fighters as well as traditional masters battling it out. in the beginning it was pure style against pure style, with the occasional bum thrown in there. it was a mirror-image of the underground scene, of which i was a part at the time. what exists today as MMA is really the distillation of that process of determining which schools had the goods and which schools didn't. and fa jing didn't keep any of those guys from getting knocked the hell out, or getting the fight/courage knocked out of them when they actually took a hit. (too much time shadow boxing.)

 

in 1973, five shaolin masters went to fight in the rings of bangkok to prove the superiority of their style. all of them had fa jing. all of them had iron shirt & iron palm. and all of them got knocked out in the first round.

 

throughout the remainder of the 70s, many more masters from shaolin and other schools went to thailand and lost except for one guy. he was pummeled through all three rounds, but he didn't get knocked out, so to honor him they called it a draw.

 

perhaps the biggest problem was that the chinese weren't used to taking a hit in a fight. all of their training had been in controlled circumstances with no real surprises or dangers. a master of a fighting style who has never had his nose bloodied in a fight isn't gonna look or act very masterful when the moment of truth comes.

 

the muay thai fighters proved what bruce lee knew to be true about the old traditional styles.

 

 

the weakness of any discipline is its dogma.

[Spirit Ape]

To be a fighter u must train to fight and fight / spar everyday this is the problems with too many forms and meditations takes away the fighting spirit!

[Spectrum]

win first fight later

[h.uriahr]

This reminds of the whole MY MASTER CAN BEAT UP YOUR MASTERcrap...lol, get ready Hundun. Ok so if you could take Goku from DBZ and magically make him a real person then sure he'd slaughter everyone on earth but let's be real...we cant do that. You can debate internal and external all day long but in the end, and again let's be real, a taichi or bagua or any martial artist isnt going to stand up against any amature mma fighter. It's much easier to develop punching power and kicking power and take downs than it is learning to cavity press someone. On that topic, who the hell can even cavity press someone to such a degree that it actual works even on the smallest level??? I'd take a kickboxer over a boxer anyday. I'd take a bjj over either one of those, normally. A boxer against a taichi guy??? KO easily. EASILY. The amount of devotion it would take to make an IMA effective just is not reasonable. Life isnt the Karate Kid or not some magic mountain that you go and sit on and all of a sudden become the most effective fighter in the world. NOPE The most effective martial arts are the external martial arts, in terms of combat, unless you train like a mad man and make IMA work. By mad man I mean quit work and train like a fighter trains. Oh and you need to spar full contact too. Probably run and do other exercises aswell obviously. I've met many, many martial artists that I could beat up just for the simple reason that I've actually been hit before. Have you seen the look on someones face whose never been hit? Youtube kiai master and youll find a video of an IMA MASTER getting his ass handed to him

Edited September 11, 2008 by h.uriahr

[Spectrum]

Have you seen the look on someones face whose never been hit?

 

Have you seen the look on someones face whose never been cavity pressed?

 

"What really works" is "the perfect move" nothing more nothing less. every highlight video ever reveals this.

 

The perfect move is:

 

1. Get out of the way

2. Redirect

3. Technique

4. Setup (for the next perfect move)

 

Every move in taijiquan follows these principle.

Every move in boxing follows these principles.

Every hole in one.

Every home run.

Every swish.

Every one.

 

What is the difference then? What defines effectiveness?

 

Training methodology and application during sparring. Knowing how to issue an effective punch (physics + timing), knowing what it's like to be punched or kicked, only through these experiencing can you "shake it off" and keep going. Thus is life. internal and external meet where people come together. internal transforms where it is externalize. external transforms where it is internalized. there is no such thing as internal or external training when it comes to application. either you are opposed to your opponent or you are a part of them.

 

Fight to heal, heal fights.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Spectrum

[mantis]

the main difference is that internal martial arts are usually (and i'm generalizing here) practiced by older people and not for their fighting aspects but for internal health. mma fighters don't really care about health (if they did they wouldn't let themselves get hid in the head so often which can cause serious problems) and their main concern is usually beating people up.

 

that being said, internal martial artists aren't always pussies like some of the MMA crowd tries to make it seem. this is an excerpt from one of the top bagua guys in china

 

JS: Is this so-called "One-Inch-Power" (Cun Jin) that you are talking about?

 

MR.MA: Yes, in Neijia we strike using One-Inch-Power. Hitting from a distance is not effective as it does not really hurt the opponent. The worst what can happen are some bruises that can heal in few days. When I strike my opponent I want him to spit with blood...This is the reason we emphasize Neigong so much. When you have Neigong, if you want to hurt the opponent, you can hurt him; if you want to push him into the air like a leather ball, you can do it as well at will.

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

 

as for shaolin vs muay thai or bjj or whatever, you can't really compare a celibate, vegetarian, serene monk with a MMA fighter who probably has the best nutrition and training regiment available. does that mean that shaolin kung fu is any less effective? i don't believe so.

Edited September 11, 2008 by mantis