Tonic foods?

[hagar]

Food question:

 

Are there any good suggestions to affordable, easy-access foods or herbs that

a) build/strengthen yang energy, especially kidney yang

tonify spleen, and build/strengthen spleen yin

 

?

 

Even some simple recipies would be much appreciated

 

 

Tusen takk

 

h

[Chang]

Very cheap and easy to produce yourself on an ongoing basis. Below you will find the Wiki description but any search engine will bring up countless hits.

 

Kombucha

 

Kefir

[hagar]

Very cheap and easy to produce yourself on an ongoing basis. Below you will find the Wiki description but any search engine will bring up countless hits.

 

Kombucha

 

Kefir

 

Great! I've been looking into Kefir actually. But what properties were you referring to Yang or Yin, spleen or kidney?

 

h

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Great! I've been looking into Kefir actually. But what properties were you referring to Yang or Yin, spleen or kidney?

 

h

 

licorice root is a spleen tonic. like all medicinal roots, it should be boiled (or simmered I think is fine) for 20 minutes to get the medicine out. It makes a good iced tea as well, so you could add some other things in there, though I havent tried it with ginger or lemon that might be good.

 

An interesting herb for kidneys is Borage, however, it can have negative effects on the liver. It's more of a once in a while thing to clear out stagnant adrenal fluid. I do not recommend using it without proper guidance from a trained herbalist (I'm just a dabbler more or less.. you know, curiosity killed the cat..).

 

Schizandra berries (wu wei zi, 5 flavour berries, in Chinese) are a good overall tonic and I find they clear away the fog pretty good just by chewing on them. The powerful sour and bitterness may contribute to that effect.

 

You could check out some info in my old thread "Chakra Nutrition" for some other info.

[thelerner]

My favorite super food at the moment:

 

In Traditional Chinese Medicine Avocado is a food with beneficial healing power.

 

Thermically it is cooling. It cools the body.

 

Taste: Sweet

 

Healing Properties:

 

1. Lubricates the Intestines treats constipation

2. Benefits the Lungs. Moistens the Lungs for Lung dryness

3. Nourishes Blood, it improves blood factors that modern medicine can not even imagine.

4. Nourishes Yin...prevents the organs from drying out from aging.

5. Benefits the stomach...treats ulcers

 

also

In accordance with Chinese medicine, the avocado is able to build blood and yin, harmonize the liver, and lubricate the lungs as well as the intestines.

[Fu_dog]

To build kidney yang the acupuncture doctor at my local Chinese herb store recommends "Golden Cabinet" tea pills.

 

I am taking them and they work as advertised, i.e., I can see a definite improvement in my kidney yang.

 

You can google it for more info, but if you have a TCM herb shop near you I expect you can find them.

[Gerard]

My favorite super food at the moment:

 

In Traditional Chinese Medicine Avocado is a food with beneficial healing power.

 

Careful with eating too much raw food. Stomach & spleen don't like raw for starters.

 

 

.................

 

 

Congee. It is a simple rice soup easily digested and assimilated, tonifies the blood and the qi, harmonises the digestion, and is demulcent, cooling, and nourishing. Ill people often have weak blood and low energy, and easily develop inflammations and other heat symptoms from deficiency of yin fluids; hence, the cooling demulcent and tonifying properties of congee are particularly welcome

 

Other therapeutic properties may be added to this Chinese soup by cooking appropriate vegetables, grains, herbs, or meats in with the rice water. Since rice itself strengthens the spleen-pancreas digestive center, other foods added to a rice congee become more completely assimilated, and their properties are therefore enhanced.

 

In your case:

 

Kidney from pig, sheep or deer: strengthens the kidneys and benefits the knees and lower back. Make sure you use organic kidney.

 

Happy recovery

[noelle]

black color foods are known as good ones for kidney...black berry, black bean, black sesame, red bean and dried hair from corn for tea(helps excretion of urine )...

 

black bean is also well known food for detoxifying....red bean soup is easy to make and tastes also good!

 

most of all, there is simple way for healthy kidney : drink couple of cups of fresh water 1 or 2 hrs before your eating every morning.

water should not be too cold and not take iit in hurry.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'm pretty confused about the raw vs. cooked situation. On one hand I can see how it's easier for the spleen to digest cooked food. On the other hand, cooking food destroys much of the enzymes which can be seen as the "chi glow" in the food, and which also provide that which is needed by the stomach to digest the food.

 

I know that eating the salad first is a good way to make sure the other food is chewed up by the digestive enzymes in the raw salad.

 

I guess it goes back to the "not too much" rule, depending on your present endeavours...

[Gerard]

water should not be too cold and not take iit in hurry.

 

+1 And a lot of hot yummy tea.

 

 

I'm pretty confused about the raw vs. cooked situation.

 

Would you add a cooling material to a cooking pot? I wouldn't

 

Stomach is the fire (yang-Earth) of the cooking pot and spleen is the pot itself (yin-Earth). This is how the principle works.

 

I'm pretty confused about the raw vs. cooked situation.

On the other hand, cooking food destroys much of the enzymes which can be seen as the "chi glow" in the food, and which also provide that which is needed by the stomach to digest the food.

 

We are talking about Qi and yin & yang balance in here, the rest is of little importance. It doesn't matter how many tons of fresh fruit and vegetable you consume each day thinking you are getting all the vitamins and minerals, if they aren't cooked. Because in this case I can guarantee you that you'll become a bloated zombie (bloating, gas, and indigestion, the typical symptoms of eating a raw diet which cause spleen deficiency).

 

 

I guess it goes back to the "not too much" rule, depending on your present endeavours...

 

Go and spend time as a homestay with a Chinese family in Kunming for a month...you shall discover how much raw food they eat. Close to zero. The occasional piece of fruit (like myself ) but in wintertime none.

 

 

 

Asians have been eating like that since the times of Fu Xi.

[Sonhoffman]

Ayurvedic medicine considers the herb Gokshura as the best kidney tonic. Otherwise the most powerful Yang (and Jing) tonic is said to be Ashwagandha.

 

It could be a good ide to first do a good flush for maybe a week using diuretics like dandelion or nettle or whatever, there is a variety of good cleansers.

 

I second the lukewarm water before breakfast.

 

BTW I agree that too much cold raw foods is not good but juices like carrot etc will bring a lot of entzymes into the system and wont hurt digestion unless too cold.

Edited December 17, 2011 by Sonhoffman

[Aetherous]

I have read that you are supposed to take kidney yin tonics alongside yang tonics. Is this true?

[Fu_dog]

Great question Scotty... that's one I was planning on asking my TCM herbologist.

 

I have taken, for example, both 6 flavor tea for kidney yin and golden cabinet tea pills for kidney yang and the combination seemed to work well for me. But I did this on my own recently, so I want to get an opinion from someone who would know.

 

I have a very knowledegable TCM doctor that I am planning to ask. If I see her within the next few weeks I will get the answer and post it here.

[Chang]

[Spirit of the Tiger]

i think the issue with raw foods can be looked at again with a modern viewpoint taking into account TCM principles. I think a raw food diet can work and it still wouldn't be a problem. My take is that one can be just fine if 75-80% of the food is raw, and for special cases if one is in a weakened state perhaps some cooked food/herbs can be of benefit. I am not against preparation of herbs and such but yea raw food isn't all that bad. I think it's just traditionally raw food is avoided because in the old times we didnt have as much knowledge as we have today, the environment and/or technological limitations did not allow for a diet high in raw foods. If you read my previous posts it can make sense why raw foods aren't all that bad if you take into account certain things and still it will fall under TCM principles.

[Spirit of the Tiger]

Also I think it's good to use modern scientific measures along with TCM principles to explain the whys and hows of TCM or even to further classify things using TCM principles using modern scientific research. People just repeat what TCM says often like "this is strengthens the spleen, is warming, etc" but how does it do this? The answer cant just be "because it says so in the nei jing" or "because it just is traditionally for thousands of yrs (of course within the context of usage)" or something like that.. or even to further explain or justify using more vague TCM terms which have no correlation with modern scientific research. Not that TCM can't be scientific in it's own right but in the ancient times some tools were lacking that we have now which can help to evolve TCM and take it in a new direction. This is part of why in China TCM and western allopathic medicine are in such conflict.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Spirit of the Tiger

[Fu_dog]

I stopped my my Chinese herbalist's shop today and asked her about taking herbal remedies for both kidney yin *and* yang at the same time.

 

She answered rather cautiously that you would only do that if you were diagnosed as being deficient in both kidney yin and yang.

 

Her advice is consistent with Chang's comment above.

[Aetherous]

Thanks man. Always best to consult with the pros.

[Gerard]

You could make a start using the Chang Ming Diet as a base.

 

Personally, I would eliminate from that diet:

 

1. Wheat

2. Yoghourt and any other dairy products mentioned

3. Biscuits, cakes

4. Vegetarian mince (usually loaded with artificial ingredients that are toxic/generate fire)

5. Coffee

6. Tropical fruit drinks (and any other fruit juices for that matter)

 

Limit consumption of:

 

1. Soy milk

2. Honey

 

I wouldn't reduce intake of fish, meat and other animal-based protein sources if someone is engaged in any form of serious physical activity, including IMA, ZZ or walking meditation for many hours a day. A warrior needs to eat like a lion and not like a lamb. Again test and see whatever suits your needs. Everyone's internal energetics are different, some are more/less Yang than others.

 

 

 

My take is that one can be just fine if 75-80% of the food is raw...

 

You obviously don't know what you are doing to your spleen and stomach, do you? That ratio is serious overkill.

 

I would limit it to 2%.

[Spirit of the Tiger]

 

You obviously don't know what you are doing to your spleen and stomach, do you? That ratio is serious overkill.

 

I would limit it to 2%.

 

 

You must be referring to your understanding of the spleen/stomach system. That's fine.

 

I wonder how these guys' spleen/stomach systems are doing it: http://naturesfitnessmodel.com/

 

There are links to numerous raw vegan models there showing no signs of distending abdomens and such. Not every raw vegan has it. So there is a right and a wrong way to do it. You'll probably say that these people might be using supplements.. yea it's definitely possible. Though it's still very possible even so without supplements. Do all animals eating raw food have spleen/stomach issues or it only applies to humans? Well, I still stand by my opinion that a raw foods diet can be done if one is careful about it.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Spirit of the Tiger

[Gerard]

You must be referring to your understanding of the spleen/stomach system. That's fine.

 

I wonder how these guys' spleen/stomach systems are doing it: http://naturesfitnessmodel.com/

 

There are links to numerous raw vegan models there showing no signs of distending abdomens and such. Not every raw vegan has it. So there is a right and a wrong way to do it. You'll probably say that these people might be using supplements.. yea it's definitely possible. Though it's still very possible even so without supplements. Do all animals eating raw food have spleen/stomach issues or it only applies to humans? Well, I still stand by my opinion that a raw foods diet can be done if one is careful about it.

 

First of all the people depicted in that page are not yogis or Wandering Daoists that have a vast control and understanding of the internal energetics of their bodies, they rely on the external, and to achieve that anything matters including performing 200 push-ups every 2 hours or starve themselves to have a 8% body fat.

 

This is a Daoist subforum and we as such care about this cycle:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FiveElementsCycleBalanceImbalance.jpg

 

http://straightbamboo.com/articles/cooked-vs-raw/

 

Spleen-stomach don't like damp and cooling stuff as this blocks the natural circulation of Qi according to the Wu Xing model which permeates the entire Universe:

 

Spleen Qi ascends to the Lungs and Heart, while Stomach Qi descends. Thus, the clear Qi obtained by the transformation of the Spleen ascends and the Stomach sends the unrefined part of the food to the Small Intestine for further processing. Damp/cooling food interfere with this natural process since Earth and Water are not involved in the generating cycle.

[Spirit of the Tiger]

Not all raw foods are damp or cool, neither are they all damp promoting foods.

 

"The ability to transform food into usable nutrients for the cells is dependent on the ‘digestive fire’ to ‘cook’ the foods and ensure this transformation is completed."

 

But you're not using your own digestive fire when you're using external fire to cook the food. Depending on the external fire can weaken the yang of the body by depriving it of the exercise of digesting the food. Just like how allopathic medicines are considered yin and cooling, they "do the work for you" but in the long term it damages the yang because your body becomes dependent on it. Also when you cook food enzymes are denatured, and energy is released by heating it up. That's just chemistry.

 

I understand this perception probably comes from the thought that maybe our body's digestive fire is too weak to process raw food. Not all raw food is cold, or promotes damp.. it's just raw. Cold food is cold. Not room temperature or temperature that is in for example a tropical environment. I live in Florida btw so the weather here is nice. As long as the food doesn't come straight out of the fridge it's not going to be cold. Just room temperature or above if it's been sun-heated.

 

That and like I said not all vegetables are cooling and yin though by comparison with meat it might be considered yin. Some sources say that most plant foods are in fact neutral. Even so there are warming veggies just as there are cooling veggies. Just because some of the popular ones are cooling doesn't make all of them cooling. Though like I said, in comparison to meat they might be.. but is it necessary to be in a what might be seen as a relative state of extreme yang by eating meats and cooked foods that will polarize veggies as "cooling"?

 

As I said before though.. it's just traditionally cooked foods was preferred over raw.. back in the ancient days. Perhaps because raw foods could often harbor parasites or bugs, and/or meat was always more common than veggies, grains and beans also (can't really be eaten raw unless sprouted and even so in delicate moderation). Then we found out that sprouting seed is useful and even consuming them in the earlier stages of maturity is probably healthier.

 

Now we have better ways to cultivate and use agriculture to plant foods, and sprout them with minimal bacterial infection. We simply have more knowledge, and it's not unnatural to use these methods though minimal processing is best. Would you say that sprouting baby greens and microgreens so that they have less fibrous cell walls by growing them in the shade or in the dark until the last day is artificial? Of course not, it's just agriculture. Though the best ways of processing are the ways which are like the ancient ways of processing. They're not necessary though. We are natural farmers. My Chinese medicine professor even said when I brought up the topic of persistence hunting... if anything we are more natural farmers than hunters... just look at our bodies. This is how we've evolved. The earth provides enough to live off the land.. we don't need to be nomadic all the time even. We can settle and make a society and cultivate off the land to feed a family and expand.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Spirit of the Tiger

[starhawk]

Actually the reason we have organic foods these days is because regular food is less nutritious... with our artificial methods, we have reduced whatever qi essence is in our foods.

 

I know the Japanese have something against eating raw foods too. All that cold foods does take more energy biochemically to convert into glycogen. Your stomach would have to work extra hard to denature the raw food enzymes, especially in uncooked plant cellular structures. Even if the food passes through, the body would react accordingly to produce excess acids I bet, but I'm no expert.