Zhan Zhuang

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

zhan zhuang is definetely a treasure! it`s a tool that enables you to develop and use your whole potential as a human beeing.

 

our sifu, master lam, taught us to do the training with open eyes.

 

the training consists of three parts:

 

warm up, the main exercises, cool down and gathering the chi.

 

it`s very important to have a long warm up. after that you try to relax your whole body from head to toe. then you do the main exercises: wu chi posture, embracing the tree and so forth. after that you cool down and gather the chi in your dantian.

 

you can use a mirror as an aid to see if you do everything in the right way.

 

nevertheless you need a qualified teacher if you want to learn zhan zhuang correctly.

 

happy standing!

 

sirius

 

 

 

 

Master Lam is a genius. A great man.

 

So sad he has moved to America, although great for everyone over there. I hope they appreciate what they have !

 

And as you say, he teaches ZZ with eyes open, which I find is a higher level than eyes closed.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Jeramiah Zeitigeist

[Gerard]

I always wondered why certain ZZ teachers taught eyes closed and others eyes open?

 

To see through "maya."

 

Either way is fine.

[humbleone]

 

the training consists of three parts:

 

warm up, the main exercises, cool down and gathering the chi.

 

it`s very important to have a long warm up. after that you try to relax your whole body from head to toe. then you do the main exercises: wu chi posture, embracing the tree and so forth. after that you cool down and gather the chi in your dantian.

 

sirius

 

yes, after watching master lam's youtube videos, I started doing a warm up, it really enhances my practice. I noticed that master Lam actually places quite a bit of importance on the warm up, he actually does a different warmup in each of his 10 youtube video's.

[JustARandomPanda]

I'm sure you'll get a half dozen reading suggestions in no time, but eventually the necessity of formal instruction will become apparent. Getting nei kung instruction has been the single most important event in my life (besides getting married, becoming a father, getting educated and getting sober!), but my recent posture tune-up was quite humbling. I thought I was making progress but was told I was merely doing "isometrics." Ouch!

 

Sigh.

 

Yeah... That's what I've long suspected too. Too bad I can't afford a teacher. I would love to be able to do Zhan Zhuang correctly someday (assuming my feet ever quit hurting). That + holding my breath to open the tiniest chi channels + shining Awareness practice upon everything...

 

Man...if I could do all of those I'd be set to go for a LONG time.

[Friend]

 

And as you say, he teaches ZZ with eyes open, which I find is a higher level than eyes closed.

 

I agree but :Why you think so?

[sirius]

I agree but :Why you think so?

 

zz training with eyes open means FULL AWARENESS - not only concerning the permanent process of scanning your whole body, but concerning your awareness of the fact that you are standing between heaven and earth. and as a more advanced student the awareness of the six directions.

 

happy standing!

 

sirius

[Friend]

zz training with eyes open means FULL AWARENESS - not only concerning the permanent process of scanning your whole body, but concerning your awareness of the fact that you are standing between heaven and earth. and as a more advanced student the awareness of the six directions.

 

happy standing!

 

sirius

 

Nice to hear your answer Sirus. Which teachings these insights comes from?

Are you say the same Jeremiah or something else in addition, since there are many answers?

[Taomeow]

Open-eyed is neither superior nor inferior, just a different focus of awareness. It is, however, much easier.

 

I have Master Lam's feng shui book, it is a very basic beginner level. Perhaps his open-eyed ZZ is also for the purpose of making the inroad easier for the beginner.

[ChiDragon]

Zhan Zhuang is about horse stance which help one to build up the leg muscles to lock oneself to the ground. Emphasis on the eyes is secondary. Ask sinfest, he knows all about the horse stance....

Edited February 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

Zhan Zhuang is about horse stance which help one to build up the leg muscles to lock oneself to the ground.

A horse stance is one version of ZZ, out of many, and building up the leg muscles is one application, out of many. The main purpose, however, is to build up one's core. What I call "the diamond axis."

[ChiDragon]

A horse stance is one version of ZZ, out of many, and building up the leg muscles is one application, out of many. The main purpose, however, is to build up one's core. What I call "the diamond axis."

Yes, there are lots of fancy names that were created in the west which I'm not aware of.

[Friend]

Open-eyed is neither superior nor inferior, just a different focus of awareness. It is, however, much easier.

 

 

There are different energetics in open eyes and closed eyes not just awarness.

Neither it is easier nor more difficult.

[Taomeow]

Yes, there are lots of fancy names that were created in the west which I'm not aware of.

 

It is not "a fancy name created in the west." It is what I said it is -- "what I call it." Most fancy names for this stuff were created in the East, incidentally. When I use them, I use them the way I've been taught by my teachers. When I create a name, I say so. I call the effects of zhan zhuang "the diamond axis" because of the way I perceive them.

[spiraltao]

There are different energetics in open eyes and closed eyes not just awarness.

Neither it is easier nor more difficult.

 

 

Can you expand on this? In terms of yin and yang?

[RyanO]

It is not "a fancy name created in the west." It is what I said it is -- "what I call it." Most fancy names for this stuff were created in the East, incidentally. When I use them, I use them the way I've been taught by my teachers. When I create a name, I say so. I call the effects of zhan zhuang "the diamond axis" because of the way I perceive them.

 

That sounds cool, could you explain what you mean by diamond axis and how this relates to the effects of zhan zhuang? Thanks.

[Taomeow]

That sounds cool, could you explain what you mean by diamond axis and how this relates to the effects of zhan zhuang? Thanks.

Sure.

 

This metaphor has to do with my overall view of the nature of the human being, from physical to emotional to the moral character of the upright-walking, vertical beast that we are. It is also related to the concepts of softness-hardness; heng (reliability, lasting nature, sturdiness in relation to the influences of time and change); and pu, "preciousness."

 

All kinds of training humans undertake or are forced to undertake in order to become stronger, sturdier physically and emotionally (as well as more "upright" morally) are practiced in the form of assorted sports, endurance routines, military drills, boot camps, etc.. etc.. These typically create bodies that are hard on the outside, with an overall impression of toughness -- tough guys and gals, iron men and women, the type both stiff and stiff-upper-lip, with flexibility and finer feeling and responsiveness trained out and an "unbreakable surface" installed. Taiji people call this type "hard on the outside, soft on the inside," or "hard muscles, soft bones." This type handles stress of a medium level very well, but crumbles under extreme pressure, physically, emotionally, morally -- internally. Physically, people trained in this manner are attacked from the inside -- by their own heart, liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs and so on -- as well as their own disturbed, unsteady, unreliable mind. That's because the training of the outer toughness has been undertaken at the expense of the inner organs, driving their strength and vitality out to the surface, depleting their qi. Emotionally, a lack of flexible responsiveness on the surface, the numbing-out, control via suppression, creates a neurotic breech between the mind and the body, between thinking and feeling, between experience and expression. This accumulates a lot of inner tension, assorted pent-up feelings that are like a ticking time bomb waiting to explode -- or else implode -- doing damage to the innocent bystanders or to the individual himself, or both. Morally, this type has no real set of internal values to hold their character together and to hold it up to any natural, inherently human standard. Their moral values are superimposed, an outcome of conditioning rather than of having found something inside that tells you the right from the wrong. Superimposed morality is not reliable -- again there's no congruence between feeling, thinking, body sensations, and beliefs, it's all haywire. These people will adopt moral values as offered from the outside, not as found inside, and act accordingly, which is why misery spreads like wildfire around them, their families, their countries, nations, empires, historic epochs. Heavy, huh? -- but to me it's only logical, hard on the outside, soft on the inside is against the genuine human nature, and if you go against nature, you go wrong every which way.

 

Now then. There's far fewer methods to accomplish the opposite -- to strengthen the true xing and ming, life and spirit, physicality, emotionality and morality in concert. The goal of these is to create a human being of the type taiji folks call "steel needle wrapped in cotton," "soft on the outside, hard on the inside," "soft muscles, hard bones." The territory comes with an approach opposite of the one I've described above. You don't harden your surface, don't numb out your feeling responsiveness, you don't adopt moral values and beliefs imposed from the outside. You train yourself to be flexible, pliable, yielding, you don't meet force with force, you don't drag your strength out from your inner core, you gather and collect and store it inside, it is not for show, it is for to make you heng, reliably strong in every sense, not on the surface but at the very foundation of your being. People trained in this manner don't concern themselves with how they handle minor to moderate stress, trusting their natural sensitivity to take care of their reaction, knowing this reaction will not be extreme and overblown nor numbed-out and artificially subdued. There's no pent-up, locked-away, suppressed feelings waiting to explode or implode. There's no depletion of one's ability to withstand extreme stress. So if/when (for most people it's a matter of "when" rather than "if," alas) it comes, they are equipped to handle it without crumbling. It can be any kind -- physical, mental, emotional, it can be a challenge to xing and ming, to everything you hold dear... and you persevere, endure, your core stays intact. This is what I call "the diamond axis." This sturdy, hard, brilliant, entirely reliable inner strength that you possess -- nothing can break it, it is infinite, its reliability is absolute, not relative. Time and change can't make a dent.

 

So, zhan zhuang is one of those practices (of which there's few, compared to thousands and thousands that do the opposite) whose true purpose is this kind of training. This is what it's supposed to accomplish. It strengthens your muscles without making them stiff and hard and without taking vital forces away from your inner organs for accomplishing the task. It strengthens your emotionality and teaches you your own limits and ways to push them further without either suppressing, numbing out, or losing control over your feelings. It gives you a training in moral uprightness that is your very own -- you lean toward no one, no leader but your own human core, and to lean toward that (which can only be accomplished if your body, mind, and spirit all lean toward your very own center harmoniously, in unison) is to find your true values, your natural morality. It can't be explained or taught, it has to be found. Zhan zhuang helps find it. When you have found it, every which way -- physically, emotionally, morally, spiritually -- it is of diamond quality, precious, eternal, and a great comfort to know you have. You are rich beyond measure, you have a great treasure hidden inside, not for show, but for your own peace of mind no one and nothing can dent. That's the diamond axis.

 

Whew!

[Friend]

Can you expand on this? In terms of yin and yang?

 

Closed eyes cause the brain to produce more Alpha wave while open eyes cause to produce more Beta Waves. When one close the eyes and relax then one relax deep.

When Eyes are open then there is a tension remained when one relax.

The energy expands easier with Eyes open and goes inward if eyes are closed.

This is why in ZZ one do like to use open eyes as one need alterness on the surrounding.

The fun begins if one use this knowledge. As when one do sink into ones natural state,

which is what one feel, stand, look express in the moment in the the natural state.

It feels real. When one act on the energy of the moment the eyes will respond,

as it is natura when the standing get tired one do look dull and the eyes are start to look halfopend.

 

And when it is too hard one close and tense the eyes and all the face seem to be pulled to the eyes. If the energy is strong eyes are open natural while one relax. People who relax in general close their eyes more as the let go of control or even close then as the enjoy the moment. Then when energy runs it it will express in the eyes and the stronger the energy state the more awake they appear.

This a back door describtion of why one not stand too long or to deep or too big for the moment of being. The master would say "Exercise moderate, do not strain yourself"

(They not mention the eyes.....)

 

The art is to have the same tension with eyes closed and open and be able to feel the difference and exercise until there is no difference anymore. This result in adding stability in ones breathing as well lessen the undergoing changes which eat up energy.

 

This is easier to see the difference when on is tired. This is the time when equal balance of yin and yang as you like want to hear is gone.

"With closed eyes get results of open eyes and to get with open eyes the results of closed eyes." "Neither sleeping or awake."

 

Hopes this was enough expansion.

[RyanO]

Thanks Taomeow! Who knew simply standing could have so much depth?

 

Great insights and motivation to further my ZZ training.

[JustARandomPanda]

From reading BK Frantzis books I discerned his Opening the Energy Gates is a form of Zhan Zhuang. Hence his meticulous pointers on getting the posture absolutely right. It's harder than it seems at first. And probably takes a full length mirror as well as someone who already knows what the correct posture is like to help one adjust correctly.

[寒月 Hanyue]

From reading BK Frantzis books I discerned his Opening the Energy Gates is a form of Zhan Zhuang. Hence his meticulous pointers on getting the posture absolutely right. It's harder than it seems at first. And probably takes a full length mirror as well as someone who already knows what the correct posture is like to help one adjust correctly.

 

Hi Serene Blue. The set Opening The Energy Gates is not ZZ. "Standing in Wuji" is the comparative ZZ in the Water Method school. In class, the instructors simply called it "standing."

 

I don't see how a mirror would assist. A teacher or a knowledgeable training partner would be ideal.

 

Since I don't do standing these days, yesterday I attempted it again after reading your last post. After about 30 seconds, the spontaneous movements of my stillness-movement practice unfolded throughout my upper body. I guess that was a confirmation that I was able to get the alignment right. And quickly.

 

My feelings are inline with RV. While it can be said that all good neigong is zhuang gong. Zhan zhuang is specifically standing statically or 'almost moving'. Opening the gates neigong starts opening the gates with zhanzhuang and moves into xingzhuang while the dissolving continues.

 

It is best not to use a mirror when learning ZZ. A knowledgable person to correct you is better. If you have no-one to do so. The use of a mirror is made viable ONLY if you do NOT correct yourself while looking at the mirror. Look, note what is mis-aligned, close your eyes and correct using internal sensation. Open and check again. Do not do so too many times in one go. This will at least teach you to rely on and use propriocetion to find alignment and not external visual cues.

 

There are different alingments taught in standing as there are in sitting, these can lead to different experiences. This is simply a school tradition thing IMO

 

Best,

[spiraltao]

I use ZZ in the way that I read Wang Shujin used it, before every workout, after doing my kneeling buddha's, reeling silk, swinging kicks and arms, I go into standing postures.

 

 

 

Rainbow_Vein, the only advice I would give is to not spend TOO long in one posture. If I stand for 45 minutes then I usuallly go thru, holding the belly (which I align in quite fast now), to the big circle ala Master Lam Kam, San Ti on each side, Master Lam Kam's Dragon Posture and then the archer on each side. Which makes for roughly eight minutes per posture.

 

 

 

I just got Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates in the mail and really like it so far! I like how he shows proper alignment, so far.

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

 

 

 

 

Rainbow_Vein, the only advice I would give is to not spend TOO long in one posture. If I stand for 45 minutes then I usuallly go thru, holding the belly (which I align in quite fast now), to the big circle ala Master Lam Kam, San Ti on each side, Master Lam Kam's Dragon Posture and then the archer on each side. Which makes for roughly eight minutes per posture.

 

 

Very good advice !

[Taomeow]

Thank you for the diamonds, Rainbow!

 

and for your kind words, Ryan.

[JustARandomPanda]

Well I can not manage to standing practices for longer than 2-3 minutes. Deep pain in my feet begins very soon thereafter.

 

Which is why I wondered elsewhere if standing for such a short amount would do me any good at all or if it just amounted to isometrics as so many Zhan Zhuang practitioners maintain it is without a personal teacher.

 

I don't know of any medical studies that say that standing for 2-3 minutes delivers any health benefits for such short amounts of time but does it do anything energy or Qi-wise?

[ChiDragon]

Well I can not manage to standing practices for longer than 2-3 minutes. Deep pain in my feet begins very soon thereafter.

 

Which is why I wondered elsewhere if standing for such a short amount would do me any good at all or if it just amounted to isometrics as so many Zhan Zhuang practitioners maintain it is without a personal teacher.

 

I don't know of any medical studies that say that standing for 2-3 minutes delivers any health benefits for such short amounts of time but does it do anything energy or Qi-wise?

 

In this case, no benefit at all. It seems to me that you have weak legs from not doing much exercise. Supposedly, ZZ will help to strengthen your legs. Tai ji will do that also. It is because Tai Ji will help you to put your body weights on one leg, alternately, at a time. The alternation gives you the Yin-yang effect. However, ZZ will have you to put the body weights on both legs constantly which causing you to have more stress on the legs. Lots of people cannot handle this as a novice.