Desire for diffrent reality

[et-thoughts]

Are you sure about that? Only our perspective of everything else changes, I think.

 

 

 

Oh, be sure I have no desire to escape anything because I am imprisoned by nothing nor no one. And yes, I do change those things I am capable of changing.

 

Some things I can't change. I do know that I am not supposed to worry about those things I can do nothing about, however, for me to not care would require me to be much more callous than I really am. I do care.

 

Anyhow, sure, I would love to see a different reality. Perhaps on of peace & love where no person ever starved to death. Perhaps one where we humans stop over-populating the planet and causing the extinction of other species of life.

 

Is it rational to have these dreams? I think so. Do I think it will ever happen? Naw.

 

I know that when our perspective changes we can affect everything else ... within us and out there

The word 'perspective' could be replaced by (thoughts/words/actions/feeling/Beliefs/stories) and the statement would still be as valid!

Are you sure about not being imprisoned? For me we are all bound to believe, though free to choose what to believe!

When you think it will happen there exists a better possibility for it to happen...

when you become certain it will happen well it will happen sooner or later...

[Marblehead]

Are you sure about not being imprisoned?

 

Yep. Absolutely.

 

When you think it will happen there exists a better possibility for it to happen...

when you become certain it will happen well it will happen sooner or later...

 

So true. That is why I sometimes label myself a 'realistic optimist'. I expect positive change. I realize that it ain't always going to happen.

 

But I make sure I don't put any hopes in anything that will require magic. You know what I mean?

[et-thoughts]

Yep. Absolutely.

 

 

 

So true. That is why I sometimes label myself a 'realistic optimist'. I expect positive change. I realize that it ain't always going to happen.

 

But I make sure I don't put any hopes in anything that will require magic. You know what I mean?

 

I think I do know what you mean :-) ... and if need be I would seek to validate if that I think to be corresponds to what be... so that in fact what I thought to be corresponded to what be... though most of the time I will just take it for granted... and flow with it... if you know what I mean :-)

 

the reason I asked 'Are you sure about not being imprisoned' stems from a little cartoon I drew a while back in which the belief of freedom is used to keep some imprisoned... you know the saying 'the truth will set you free'... To know the truth one must choose to bind oneself to the truth... if one is free from truth one is imprisoned by delusion... in a way I like to say we are forced to believe while free to choose what to believe... similarly we are forced to choose while free to choose what to do... we each judge everything and each thing some do it nicely :-) the illusion of choosing not to choose just complicates things... the same with judging not to judge... it still is a judgement call one makes!

 

this topic centers on a desire for a different reality... escaping this dream seeking another dream rather than transforming this one... I expect positive change I realize that it may take a while and me doing some things (and not doing other things) as well as the participation of others for it to happen... and eventually it will happen... it may seem a bit magical to some though its rather quite natural... My desire for a different reality focuses on transforming this reality now and here to make it better...

[Everything]

Granted that. We are here because that's the way it is. A star doesn't need a reason to explode or to support life for billions of years.

 

Remember, I don't surrender. Just something I don't do.

Surrender is not a loss or lack of control. Surrender is letting go of the concept of who you think you're supose to be, and being who you actually are, which is unlimitted possibilities. Surrenderig to the fact that you are made in the image of the infinite creator, so that your reality may reflect this, trough the synchronisities in your life. Surrender is not the forsaking of yourself, it is infact the total acceptance of your self.

 

All great warriors know the true power lies behind vulnerability and the practice of surrender. Look at great martial arts masters and how they seem to "surrender" like water rather then push, fight and resist like stone.

[et-thoughts]

 

I will now share with you the 6 major illusions of the self reinforcing negative ego.

 

Those 6 major illusions is the tool that the negative ego uses.

 

Seems that 'whatever' would be the seventh...

 

Now would you or someone else please share with us the 7 major realizations of the self reinforcing positive ego.

[Fū Yue]

Seems that 'whatever' would be the seventh...

 

Now would you or someone else please share with us the 7 major realizations of the self reinforcing positive ego.

 

I am that which is,

 

That which is be the word,

 

This word is freedom and fire,

 

The greatest love is born from purely being,

 

It's work is an ocean of play.

 

My self empty of negative or positive,

 

Completely united is all.

[Stosh]

Seems that 'whatever' would be the seventh...

 

Now would you or someone else please share with us the 7 major realizations of the self reinforcing positive ego.

Ok, thats funny

[Marblehead]

... if you know what I mean :-)

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. Actually, that is a pretty good post.

 

Being bound to the truth is an interesting concept. I don't we will always get the truth though when we ask our questions. Therefore we must find our own truths. We just talked about that recently.

 

And I suppose that you already know that I believe in free will so we do have choices in life and I have never denied the fact that I constantly make judgement calls. But I do try to restrict my judging others as much as I can.

[Marblehead]

Surrender is not a loss or lack of control. Surrender is letting go of the concept of who you think you're supose to be, and being who you actually are, which is unlimitted possibilities.

 

I got that down pretty well. But I didn't need to surrender to realize it. I can't speak to the rest of that paragraph as it is not part of my belief system.

 

All great warriors know the true power lies behind vulnerability and the practice of surrender. Look at great martial arts masters and how they seem to "surrender" like water rather then push, fight and resist like stone.

No, No, No. I disagree with that assessment.

 

The warrior does not surrender - (S)he realizes that they may die during the course of their actions therefore not fearing death allows them to take whatever action is necessary at the time.

 

The martial artist does not surrender - (s)he moves with the flow of the energy of their opponent reserving their energy for the appropriate time for whatever action is necessary. Yes, to flow like water. Don't jingle like the jade but rather rumble like to rock.

[et-thoughts]

Yeah, I think I know what you mean. Actually, that is a pretty good post.

 

Being bound to the truth is an interesting concept. I don't we will always get the truth though when we ask our questions. Therefore we must find our own truths. We just talked about that recently.

 

And I suppose that you already know that I believe in free will so we do have choices in life and I have never denied the fact that I constantly make judgement calls. But I do try to restrict my judging others as much as I can.

 

We may never know who be the angel and who be the demon at the intersection but we can certainly know with full certainty the way to go... This refers to a logical challenge one may encounter on the way... you probably already know it... its the one where you have one question to ask to one of two beings at an intersection... the difficulty resides in the fact one always tells the truth (the angel) and one always lies (the demon) but no one knows which is which... There is a solution which will give one certainty of the way to go while leaving one quite ignorant as to which was the angel and which as the demon... The point I am driving to is that regardless of knowing the truth or ignoring it we must find the right way and follow it... Its not about finding our own truth and discovering we are wrong or right whatever the case may be... its about finding the path and following it... why seek to do the impossible when its easier to just do it right... as I said previously or elsewhere you are bound to choose, while free as to what you choose. To put it more bluntly your destined and enslaved to make a choice wether you like it or not accept it or not ... while given the opportunity to choose among some options. In terms of the truth we can accept it or reject it but rarely determine it...

 

Suggest you recognize that you/me/others will constantly make judgement calls though can choose how these will be... some choose 'not to chose' and then choose to deny the fact of what they choose... instead of just recognizing the choices they make... what makes some think that they will choose to do something differently at some other time when this time they chosen a certain way? Just choose right this time and every time to ensure getting the right answer when it really count

[et-thoughts]

I am that which is,

 

That which is be the word,

 

This word is freedom and fire,

 

The greatest love is born from purely being,

 

It's work is an ocean of play.

 

My self empty of negative or positive,

 

Completely united is all.

 

If you are that which is... then you know the fullness of love

and every word which you spew should radiate fullness of love

every thought, action, feeling completely united in love for all that be of love now and forevermore...

Love conceives the being to love and loves the being to love forming it within loves lovely ways...

[Informer]

I disagree, fullness of love includes playing the devil's advocate when necessary. I'll make myself look like an ass to get a point across, I don't have some image to uphold or worry about someones feelings as far as truth is concerned. Sure, everyone wants to play the nice guy, but I don't think that does much to get the point across in all situations.

 

If I think you are delusional, then I'm likely to tell it to your face. That is because deep down I love you, and I think a zen slap can go a long ways.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Informer

[et-thoughts]

I disagree, fullness of love includes playing the devil's advocate when necessary. I'll make myself look like an ass to get a point across, I don't have some image to uphold or worry about someones feelings as far as truth is concerned. Sure, everyone wants to play the nice guy, but I don't think that does much to get the point across in all situations.

 

If I think you are delusional, then I'm likely to tell it to your face. That is because deep down I love you, and I think a zen slap can go a long ways.

 

The idea that playing the devil's advocate when necessary is required stems from a devils schema that seeks to make some think that the devil is actually required... something along the lines that we need the problems for the solutions we have rather than just seeing the opportunities at hand... it is possible to know good by knowing good.... it is possible to know the truth by just knowing the truth...

[Informer]

What makes one with metta and good devils advocate, is that they aren't offended by other's words or insults, imo. They can stay the course rather then getting bogged down in the children's game of ego.

 

You can represent the stance and perspective of love all day if you choose, but I think it is selfish and does most good only for you. Then I'm still stuck playing the devils advocate, how about some love for that guy?

 

There are many delusions that must be cut through for one to find truth. Change perspectives, that is the key IMO, that is why you are not separate, because you have the ability for all perspectives.

 

Choose a perspective opposite of what is being presented to play for real all the while still feeling love at the core. Have you ever tried to wrestle a belief from someone? It is not pretty. If They don't have metta, then just telling them to use it does no good, because they don't know what that even is yet. There is too many beliefs surrounding love to begin with with, which the beliefs must be cut out to reveal its true form.

 

I think it is a beautiful thing for one to be able to look back upon their ignorance. For without eliminating a belief there would be nothing to look back upon because it continues to be believed. Then it is likely more beliefs have just compiled around it. Many people build their entire being around belief stacked upon belief.

 

I don't think there is anything that you can say love really is. What it is not is what is important imo. It is not something to think.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Informer

[Everything]

The warrior does not surrender - (S)he realizes that they may die during the course of their actions therefore not fearing death allows them to take whatever action is necessary at the time.

I mean, the fear itself says enough to me. Wether you feel frustrated to kill someone, or afraid not to kill someone. Obviously there is some negative ego at play there.

 

Taking whatever action is necessary is not a surrender. "necessary" does not exist outside of the negative ego. "rationalization" and "paranoid" is a big one among soldiers.

[Marblehead]

I mean, the fear itself says enough to me. Wether you feel frustrated to kill someone, or afraid not to kill someone. Obviously there is some negative ego at play there.

 

Taking whatever action is necessary is not a surrender. "necessary" does not exist outside of the negative ego. "rationalization" and "paranoid" is a big one among soldiers.

Yes, you are beginning to understand what I am saying.

 

No fear, no surrender. Just doing what needs be done.

 

A warrior's code: I will help you if I can; I will kill you if I must.

 

This is being beyond good and evil. Rather wu wei actually.

 

If you are able to forget your Self (inner essence) then you no longer need to fear or surrender to anything. All there is left for one to do is live.

[et-thoughts]

What makes one with metta and good devils advocate, is that they aren't offended by other's words or insults, imo. They can stay the course rather then getting bogged down in the children's game of ego.

 

You can represent the stance and perspective of love all day if you choose, but I think it is selfish and does most good only for you. Then I'm still stuck playing the devils advocate, how about some love for that guy?

 

There are many delusions that must be cut through for one to find truth. Change perspectives, that is the key IMO, that is why you are not separate, because you have the ability for all perspectives.

 

Choose a perspective opposite of what is being presented to play for real all the while still feeling love at the core. Have you ever tried to wrestle a belief from someone? It is not pretty. If They don't have metta, then just telling them to use it does no good, because they don't know what that even is yet. There is too many beliefs surrounding love to begin with with, which the beliefs must be cut out to reveal its true form.

 

I think it is a beautiful thing for one to be able to look back upon their ignorance. For without eliminating a belief there would be nothing to look back upon because it continues to be believed. Then it is likely more beliefs have just compiled around it. Many people build their entire being around belief stacked upon belief.

 

I don't think there is anything that you can say love really is. What it is not is what is important imo. It is not something to think.

 

I am a bit puzzled by what "metta" referrers to... could you elaborate a bit.. btw if you are stuck playing some roles just choose to change the role you play... there are many perspectives and possibilities... some are intended to remain left as just possibilities ... for seeing clearly through them requires too much effort... YES, I have tried to wrestle a belief from someone... I embarked on the task and learned quite a bit about wrestling with beliefs... unfortunately an impasse the other did not want to cross surfaced and they simply choose to stay on that side... FWIIW create a belief language that allows to expand to include both beliefs and more then contract to just one belief to know which of the beliefs can still stand... just realize that you might have to give up a belief you hold to keep on going... this exercise helped me... as I created and learned about belief languages and how to translate between different ones... Now I do not choose a perspective opposite to what is being presented to play for real, I choose many perspectives singularly integrated into a single one while respecting the individual ones. I know the elephant so even though I experience what others experience of it I know which part they be experiencing... and just because something is inside of it, or comes out of it, it does not mean it is it... indeed it is beautiful thing for one to be able to look upon their ignorance and knowledge while rejoicing at being ignorant of what be bad and knowledgeable of what be good... One can look at a belief and see upon looking at it what one believes and a bit more... if we eliminate a belief then 'there would be nothing to look back upon' because the belief has been eliminated! only if it continues to be can you see it... I think there are things that we can say love really is... how valid the statements be could be explored, debated dialogued ... at the very least I can say love be love... those who know love understand what I say and those who do not well they do not until they do... Love is something to think, experience, feel, give, get and more...

[Informer]

This is metta:

 

Visuddhimagga instructions

 

Contemporary instruction for the cultivation of loving-kindness – such as is found in the works of Sharon Salzberg,[11] the Triratna Buddhist Community's Kamalashila,[5] and Matthieu Ricard[12] – is often based in part on a method found in Buddhaghosa's 5th c. CE Pāli exegetical text, the Path to Purification (Pali:Visuddhimagga), Chapter IX.[13][14] This traditional approach is best known for identifying successive stages of meditation during which one progressively cultivates loving-kindness towards:

 

oneself[15]

a good friend[16]

a "neutral" person

a difficult person[17]

all four of the above equally[18][19]

and then gradually the entire universe[20]

 

One should avoid choosing someone to whom one is sexually attracted or who is dead.[21] For a "neutral" person, choose someone that you might come into contact with every day, but who does not give rise to strong positive nor strong negative emotions. For a "difficult" person, traditionally choose an enemy, but avoid choosing a person who has just wrecked your life, unless you are very well grounded in awareness.

 

Matthieu Ricard has recommended that metta practitioners choose to meditate on a person for whom it is very easy to feel unconditional love and compassion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mett%C4%81

 

It is something to think for some and may seem to be something that people "think" but the experience of love isn't inside your head really. Those are the ideas you have of what it is not really what it is.

 

It could very well lead you to the thymus, or heart center, or whatever you choose to call it. The palace of love.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Informer

[Everything]

Yes, you are beginning to understand what I am saying.

 

No fear, no surrender. Just doing what needs be done.

 

A warrior's code: I will help you if I can; I will kill you if I must.

 

This is being beyond good and evil. Rather wu wei actually.

 

If you are able to forget your Self (inner essence) then you no longer need to fear or surrender to anything. All there is left for one to do is live.

Forget your inner essence? What do you mean?

[Marblehead]

Forget your inner essence? What do you mean?

My understanding and opinion:

 

Our inner essence are those feeling and emotions we experience within whenever anything enters our conscious mind. This includes from all externals as well as our own thinking processes.

 

I think that when we attain a state where our feelings and emotions do not cause us any mental anxiety we are at peace with our Self and at peace with our surroundings. If we are at peace and we are doing what we feel we should do we have reached the state of being beyond good and evil.

 

When we are in this state no matter what we do there will be no inner conflict so we have forgotten our inner essence as it is the same as our outer essence.

 

So, in the case of the warrior, (s)he has forgotten their inner essence, forgotten any fear of death, knowing what they did or were about to do was the best thing to do at the moment. (Kinda' like the man or woman running into a street with oncoming cars, putting their own life in danger, in order to attempt to save the life of a child. The possible results don't matter at times like these.)

[The Observer]

Forget your inner essence? What do you mean?

 

I don't necessarily speak for Marblehead, but I think he's saying that in crucial moments it is good to forget yourself (sense of self). When that happens you are operating at 100% clarity, thus able to carry out decisions according to the Tao. A decision that is in accord with the Way can be said to be not doing because the doer is at one with the Way. Hope that made sense. I think most of us have had an experience like it before (to varying degrees of intensity and impact).

 

Here's an example of what I think it means: When I used to meditate Zen style, one of my favorite moments was when I temporarily forgot who I was and a great big smile cracked on my face.

[Everything]

My understanding and opinion:

 

Our inner essence are those feeling and emotions we experience within whenever anything enters our conscious mind. This includes from all externals as well as our own thinking processes.

 

I think that when we attain a state where our feelings and emotions do not cause us any mental anxiety we are at peace with our Self and at peace with our surroundings. If we are at peace and we are doing what we feel we should do we have reached the state of being beyond good and evil.

 

When we are in this state no matter what we do there will be no inner conflict so we have forgotten our inner essence as it is the same as our outer essence.

 

So, in the case of the warrior, (s)he has forgotten their inner essence, forgotten any fear of death, knowing what they did or were about to do was the best thing to do at the moment. (Kinda' like the man or woman running into a street with oncoming cars, putting their own life in danger, in order to attempt to save the life of a child. The possible results don't matter at times like these.)

I think I know the feeling. Is it perhaps like when you think you're about to die and you accept it, so nothing matters anymore. You're just being who you are. Surrendered to yourself in a sense. It feels like you be what you focus upon, without judgement, thinking or conflictig thoughts. There is absolute focus on the being/becoming of who you are in that moment. Something like that?

Edited June 23, 2012 by Everything

[Everything]

I don't necessarily speak for Marblehead, but I think he's saying that in crucial moments it is good to forget yourself (sense of self). When that happens you are operating at 100% clarity, thus able to carry out decisions according to the Tao. A decision that is in accord with the Way can be said to be not doing because the doer is at one with the Way. Hope that made sense. I think most of us have had an experience like it before (to varying degrees of intensity and impact).

 

Here's an example of what I think it means: When I used to meditate Zen style, one of my favorite moments was when I temporarily forgot who I was and a great big smile cracked on my face.

Moments? We should always be like that! It is our natural state of being, if we allow it to be.

 

I know, there is just being. Everything flows naturally. We are always like that when we face great sickness and become sick of being sick. So you surrender your "sickness" or "ego" and just be, with great clarity. In a sense, you naturally fall into the place of well-being that has always been yours for the taking. You can even enjoy the contrast of your sickness and laugh about it, because there is absolutely no doubt in the absolute clarity of your absolute knowingness that you are absolutely healthy and absolutely well.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Everything

[Marblehead]

I don't necessarily speak for Marblehead, but I think he's saying that in crucial moments it is good to forget yourself (sense of self). When that happens you are operating at 100% clarity, thus able to carry out decisions according to the Tao. A decision that is in accord with the Way can be said to be not doing because the doer is at one with the Way.

Well, you did pretty damn good none-the-less.

[Marblehead]

Something like that?

Yeah, something like that. Actually this is a little difficult for me to speak to because I don't want to sound like I have gotten mystical on Y'all.

 

I still won't conceed to that word "surrender" though. Hehehe.