What is Taoism (Daoism)?

[Lao Tzu]

[dawei]

Behind the "doing", there is a "do-nothing".

Lauguage is used to express the thoughts, describe the things and states. But lauguage itself is not the thoughts, things, or the states, so “道可道非常道”.

Maybe your aware that the Mawangdui has 恆 instead of 常... of course for some there is no difference after the ruler is dead. The difference is not in the language or thought... it is beyond all this or that thing...

Edited December 26, 2011 by dawei

[Lao Tzu]

Maybe your aware that the Mawangdui has 恆 instead of 常... of course for some there is no difference after the ruler is dead. The difference is not in the language or thought... it is beyond all this or that thing...

Yes, I know that.

In Chinese, 恆 and 常 are same here.

[dawei]

Yes, I know that.

In Chinese, 恆 and 常 are same here.

 

In modern chinese... of course... you have proved my point. thank you.

[Lao Tzu]

In modern chinese... of course... you have proved my point. thank you.

You are very welcome.

And I think they are same both in classic and modern chinese in such a context.

[Aaron]

edit- double post again. Site is getting laggy every now and again.

Aaron

Edited December 26, 2011 by Twinner

[dawei]

You are very welcome.

And I think they are same both in classic and modern chinese in such a context.

There is a very obvious difference... if the King does not exist then there is no need to replace the character... but we get a replacement based on politics.... so we lose the inherent meaning... don't justify the reason... you've missed the point of the meaning. I'm done here when we use a kings death to justify a change in the meaning of the original character to justify the change. The meaning is lose... with you...

[Lao Tzu]

There is a very obvious difference... if the King does not exist then there is no need to replace the character... but we get a replacement based on politics.... so we lose the inherent meaning... don't justify the reason... you've missed the point of the meaning. I'm done here when we use a kings death to justify a change in the meaning of the original character to justify the change. The meaning is lose... with you...

I don't remember the King's story, but the two characters are the same meaning to me in this context. Both of them mean "constant".

[Aaron]

Taoism is merely a label that we place on our own beliefs in order to distinguish them from someone else's. How great is the difference between "eh" and "oh"? Must I believe what someone else believes? Because I cannot speak of Tao, I cannot speak of Taoism. I can only speak of those things I see happening around me and investigate that which happens within me. It is only by examining these things that I can talk about a Tao, but the Tao I speak about is not the Tao.

 

It benefits a man a hundred times over if he can worry less about defining the -ism, and more about the Tao.

 

Aaron

Edited December 26, 2011 by Twinner

[Stigweard]

Taoism is merely a label that we place on our own beliefs in order to distinguish them from someone else's. How great is the difference between "eh" and "oh"? Must I believe what someone else believes? Because I cannot speak of Tao, I cannot speak of Taoism. I can only speak of those things I see happening around me and investigate that which happens within me. It is only by examining these things that I can talk about a Tao, but the Tao I speak about is not the Tao.

 

It benefits a man a hundred times over if he can worry less about defining the -ism, and more about the Tao.

 

Aaron

Booyah !!! There's the money shot !!!

 

The labels Daojia, Daojiao, Daotong etc etc, whether from Buddhist, Confucian, or Taoist origin, arose through comparison as a means of self-identification. I.E. we are XYZists compared to those ABCists.

 

Most of this label-identification arose because the indigenous traditions were being marginalized by both Confucian and Buddhist political aspirations. So in a sense the formalization of Taoism was an act of nationalism for those with vested interests in "the old ways".

 

Interesting that Taoism suffered yet another cultural purge during the mid-20th C at the hands of the communists and now, through yet another surge of nationalism, Taoism in China is enjoying a new boost of popularity. This is occurring I believe because the PRC has recognized the vacant blandness that has engulfed their culture and also because they are reacting to the increasing social influence of both Buddhism and Christianity. So yet again we see the label Taoism being used as a means of "us" compared to "them".

[ChiDragon]

Let's forget about Tao altogether then

hmmmmmm....Too bad you had lose interest in Tao so soon. Perhaps, I shouldn't have gone for the family dinner.......

[dawei]

I don't remember the King's story, but the two characters are the same meaning to me in this context. Both of them mean "constant".

Sorry... I don't buy that they mean the same for LZ. For anyone interested to look a little further:

 

http://www.cnphenomenology.com/modules/article/view.article.php/c7/711

[dawei]

[Stigweard]

[dawei]

So if we wrote everything else off as faith-based fairy tales then, yes, all we are left with is the philosophy.

 

My way of navigating this quagmire??

 

• Make a general study of it all but neither believe nor disbelieve; neither discount nor believe blindly.
  
• Study the philosophy in details, especially the principles of virtue, de, and naturalness, ziran.
  
• Learn one of the traditional movements arts like qigong, but especially Taijiquan, and discover the Taoist principles within that art. Don't believe anything on faith unless you can feel it in a practical way within your own body.
  

I think this is a very good summary and actually very close to my own way. I might only be a little emphatic on the last point of not believing anything on faith unless you can feel it. The boundaries of practice and faith are very blurry at some point and there can be an inner faith based on an inner feeling of some kind that is not like feeling Qi but more like simply awareness.

[Stigweard]

I think this is a very good summary and actually very close to my own way. I might only be a little emphatic on the last point of not believing anything on faith unless you can feel it. The boundaries of practice and faith are very blurry at some point and there can be an inner faith based on an inner feeling of some kind that is not like feeling Qi but more like simply awareness.

Yup I hearing you

 

I also allow a "fuzzy" area to give space for my inspiration to explore and grow. But I still like to ground it out in practical reality which runs in accordance with my sentiments over in How to handle the unknown.

 

[flowing hands]

Those that follow Tao will always suffer. For in suffering there is understanding. In understanding there is realisation of ones self and others.

 

Tao schools come from many sources and so does the religion. The Tao though is the core, but finding a way to it is so diverse and obscure that the task seems impossible. The 'schools' of Tao have a tendency to add to this great obscurity and tend to be devoid of the source using practices and ritual that most of the time take people away from a true understanding. All'schools' should really aim for the same thing and should have equal elements of various practices, but these have been changed and altered by many Masters over the years from the original. Now many are steeped in practices that are really unnecessary and are more to do with the "flowery" trappings of the Tao. Real power can only come from the lack of self and ambition to obtain it. When real power has been obtained the self has been purified and the need for it long forgotten.