Meditation is not a good way for practising

[Lao Tzu]

Many ancient sages said that meditation is a bad way for pursue Dao.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Perhaps you might know what the ancient sages promoted as a good way of pursuit?

 

 

The so called zen paths tend to seem appealing to me

[Lao Tzu]

Perhaps you might know what the ancient sages promoted as a good way of pursuit?

 

 

The so called zen paths tend to seem appealing to me

At least, zen path is better than meditation.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

im sure there might be instances of meditation on a zen path, but i dont think there is any ultimate focus on it either, so i doubt the possibility of any real "bad way" to walk the zen path.

 

 

Unless it's not even zen, then it's probably, i dunno, political?

[Lao Tzu]

zen path has nothing to do with meditation

[doc benway]

zen path has nothing to do with meditation

What is meditation and how does it differ from zen?

[Lao Tzu]

What is meditation and how does it differ from zen?

I think meditation is thinking of some images or some place on/in one's body with your mind.

zen is thinking of the philosophy.

[Protector]

Pursuing anything wont get you anywhere

Let it come to you instead

Don't do, just be

[RiverSnake]

Meditation in essence is cultivating awareness in all things: awareness when we are talking, running, working, and any other activity. Awareness free of all cumbersome mental banter.

 

You're are saying that people should not be self-aware?

Edited December 22, 2011 by OldGreen

[Protector]

Meditation is a tool, it's not necessary

But it's already a part of a being, all the people practice meditation without knowing it

It is still the outer shell of a person, the person is looking for the essence underneath the shell

[Spirit of the Tiger]

Well... I was thinking of narrowing down all my practices to some more simple and encompassing meditation like:

 

sitting in full lotus for 20 mins, emptiness meditation type. Standing meditation in the wuji posture breathing in earth energy and breathing down heaven energy, ie exchanging/breathing heaven and earth energy through me.

[Lao Tzu]

Pursuing anything wont get you anywhere

Let it come to you instead

Don't do, just be

when you say "just be", you are pursuing "just be"...

[doc benway]

I think meditation is thinking of some images or some place on/in one's body with your mind.

zen is thinking of the philosophy.

I disagree on both counts.

 

Zen has nothing to do with thinking or philosophy - Zen is simply about being

 

Meditation is a very vague and broad term, and often misused IMO - there certainly are some methods that involve focusing the mind on points in the body or dwelling on images, but that is a very superficial understanding of the process.

 

Ultimately, the aim of meditation and Zen are the same. To drop everything that we have picked up that obscures our essence. and to dwell in what it is that "we are." Please don't misunderstand, I don't mean to give the impression that this is an authoritative definition of Zen or meditation. I just hope to give a very general taste and distinguish it from your definitions that I find misleading.

 

With all due respect, if you would like to teach others about the value (or lack of value) of Zen or meditation, I would suggest that you first learn something about those methods.

[doc benway]

Many ancient sages said that meditation is a bad way for pursue Dao.

One cannot pursue Dao.

Meditation is not a pursuit of Dao.

It is waking up to Dao.

There is nothing to pursue.

Just to be aware, as Old Green said.

Awareness is not a pursuit, it is a receptiveness and a letting go of obstructions.

Pursuit is yang, meditation is yin.

[Lao Tzu]

Meditation in essence is cultivating awareness in all things: awareness when we are talking, running, working, and any other activity. Awareness free of all cumbersome mental banter.

 

You're are saying that people should not be self-aware?

If that is the definition of meditation, you can ignore what I have said here.

[Lao Tzu]

I disagree on both counts.

 

Zen has nothing to do with thinking or philosophy - Zen is simply about being

 

Meditation is a very vague and broad term, and often misused IMO - there certainly are some methods that involve focusing the mind on points in the body or dwelling on images, but that is a very superficial understanding of the process.

 

Ultimately, the aim of meditation and Zen are the same. To drop everything that we have picked up that obscures our essence. and to dwell in what it is that "we are." Please don't misunderstand, I don't mean to give the impression that this is an authoritative definition of Zen or meditation. I just hope to give a very general taste and distinguish it from your definitions that I find misleading.

 

With all due respect, if you would like to teach others about the value (or lack of value) of Zen or meditation, I would suggest that you first learn something about those methods.

Thank you.

So, I need to know the exact English definitions of both of them, so as to give my opinions on them.

Can you please do that for me?

[JustARandomPanda]

I fail to see how meditation does not help be in the "now".

[Birch]

Yeah, but if you think about before you ever tried any of this meditation thing. What was that like?

[LaughingNumbSkull]

Get out of town. What a crock of shit. What's the alternative then?

 

Isn't there a policy on disinformation?

[LaughingNumbSkull]

If this is so true why do daoist monks spend 6+ hours a day meditating? Why do they go on meditation retreats that sometimes last years. If it's so useless why does almost every religion in the world practice meditation of some form.

 

Why do the highest level practitioners spend most of their days doing meditation?

 

 

Something don't add up to a full stack of pancakes.

 

What a crock of shit. Unless you can show me tangible proof WTF would anyone agree with a topic that's so ridiculous. Without any proof except that you claim high level sages have uttered such bullshit

 

They should give me the title of thread killer. Once I comment the thread goes dead. That's not going to make me go away though. I will continue to call people on their bullshit.

 

I don't just agree with people's bullshit. Either show proof or don't make such an outrageously ridiculous thread.

[Lao Tzu]

If this is so true why do daoist monks spend 6+ hours a day meditating? Why do they go on meditation retreats that sometimes last years. If it's so useless why does almost every religion in the world practice meditation of some form.

 

Why do the highest level practitioners spend most of their days doing meditation?

 

 

Something don't add up to a full stack of pancakes.

 

What a crock of shit. Unless you can show me tangible proof WTF would anyone agree with a topic that's so ridiculous. Without any proof except that you claim high level sages have uttered such bullshit

 

They should give me the title of thread killer. Once I comment the thread goes dead. That's not going to make me go away though. I will continue to call people on their bullshit.

 

I don't just agree with people's bullshit. Either show proof or don't make such an outrageously ridiculous thread.

Could you give me a typical example of meditation? And based on that, I will try to show you the proof.

[Lao Tzu]

If this is so true why do daoist monks spend 6+ hours a day meditating? Why do they go on meditation retreats that sometimes last years. If it's so useless why does almost every religion in the world practice meditation of some form.

 

Why do the highest level practitioners spend most of their days doing meditation?

Because Tao have been misdeliverd or misunderstood a lot.

[Jetsun]

From the Dzogchen perspective all the methods people practice like focusing on one point, or on the dan tien or the breath is not real meditation, they can lead to real meditation but they are not the real thing. Essentially trying to do anything with your mind and attention creates a duality and a disconnect, so they say in Dzogchen that meditation only begins when you rest in the nature of your own mind, all the other methods are just preparation or training wheels so you can do this.

[Protector]

when you say "just be", you are pursuing "just be"...

 

[Ish]

Just an excuse for people to not practice and pretend they are enlightened - classic 24/7 practice excuse.

Of course 24/7 practice is what you should do, but you need a foundation - and training sessions to add depth.

 

If you've put some time and effort into meditation you would realise its worth.

Saying otherwise indicates you are above the level and teachings of masters such as Buddha and Buddhist masters, all the yoga masters, all Taoist masters etc.