Meditation is not a good way for practising

[Lao Tzu]

I'm really not trying to mess with you. Just trying to get some clarification. The more you post the more I think you are being honest in what you are trying to say but even the title of this thread was a challenge to many of the members here because meditation is an important part of their life and their path.

 

I would agree that if one can attain the state of wu wei meditation would no longer be a necessary part of one's practice because they would be gaining the same benefits of meditation that can be gained in the 'non-doing' condition of wu wei.

 

I think you can get much more in the state I mentioned than meditation.

 

 

The importance many of the members here place on their parctice of meditation, regardless of the practice. Just saying that meditation is not a good way for practicing the Dao is pretty much of an insult to those who find benefit in their meditation practice.

 

I do meditate on occasion. It is not a practice though. For me it is returning to the Valley Spirit, the condition of yin, the place of rest. I have no goal when I meditate and that is why I call it 'empty mind', a short period of time when I allow my mind to be quiet.

I didn't intend to insult anyone, I just want to point out something wrong in the society. Real WuWei doesn't like that, it is so natural...

Edited December 25, 2011 by Lao Tzu

[Lao Tzu]

Lao Tzu....

Do you interpret the Tao Te Ching yourself or with the help of the native scholars....???

By myself. but, I have to read lots of books before I can do that.

Native scholars, most of them are not believable.

[Marblehead]

I think you can get much more in the state I mentioned than meditation.

 

Yes, but there are many who cannot attain the state of wu wei yet. Especially here in the US life moves so darned fast it is often very hard to just keep up with it. Life is not very simple for the majority of people.

 

I didn't intend to insult anyone, I just want to point out something wrong in the society. Real WuWei doesn't like that, it is so natural...

 

Well, sure, if one has attained the state of wu wei there no longer is the need to meditate, in my opinion. But I don't consider it wrong that some have not attained this state. Afterall, they are too busy living life.

[Lao Tzu]

Yes, but there are many who cannot attain the state of wu wei yet. Especially here in the US life moves so darned fast it is often very hard to just keep up with it. Life is not very simple for the majority of people.

 

Yes, me too. I can only united with Dao very occasionally. But keep trying, maybe we can do it even though we are so busy.

 

 

Well, sure, if one has attained the state of wu wei there no longer is the need to meditate, in my opinion. But I don't consider it wrong that some have not attained this state. Afterall, they are too busy living life.

 

The thing is many meditation can be harmful to one's health if one can not handle it proberly. It is not what I said, it is what the sages said.

Yes, you can feel some magic feeling in your body when you meditate, but it means nothing in most of the time.

[ChiDragon]

Yes, but there are many who cannot attain the state of wu wei yet. Especially here in the US life moves so darned fast it is often very hard to just keep up with it. Life is not very simple for the majority of people.

 

Well, sure, if one has attained the state of wu wei there no longer is the need to meditate, in my opinion. But I don't consider it wrong that some have not attained this state. Afterall, they are too busy living life.

 

It was because of the busy life in the modern world. That's why one should take the time to meditate to become Wu Wei once awhile to easy the mind and soul. Human has to deal with nature which is the necessity of life.

[Protector]

Bringing wondering mind onto a subject in question is called concentration. When mind stops wandering end effortlessly goes into a subject, it's meditation. Next step, becoming the subject and transform is called Samadhi.

 

hold on I used a Sanskritic word(I think), in China it's more commonly known as Shen gong and Shim gong in Korea

Edited December 25, 2011 by Sinfest

[Marblehead]

... maybe we can do it even though we are so busy.

 

That would be the ideal, wouldn't it? The biggest challenge would be getting around the competition that is required in a lot of the areas of our life.

 

The thing is many meditation can be harmful to one's health if one can not handle it proberly. It is not what I said, it is what the sages said.

Yes, you can feel some magic feeling in your body when you meditate, but it means nothing in most of the time.

 

Okay, now you are saying things that I can actually agree with. I agree, there are many meditative practices that would be dangerous if a person were to attempt without proper knowledge and guidance. I have never experienced with any of these. But then there are many forms that can be practiced that would present no danger to anyone practicing them.

 

I will suggest that meditation is a good way for one to regain one's center (grounding) when life has been very trying. No, it is not walking the path (the Way) but after meditation one can return to the walking.

[Marblehead]

It was because of the busy life in the modern world. That's why one should take the time to meditate to become Wu Wei once awhile to easy the mind and soul. Human has to deal with nature which is the necessity of life.

 

Well, sure, you understand this but what of the folks who do not understand? It is they who are moving too fast to realize it.

[Lao Tzu]

It was because of the busy life in the modern world. That's why one should take the time to meditate to become Wu Wei once awhile to easy the mind and soul. Human has to deal with nature which is the necessity of life.

en,,,

Dao is everywhere, everything.

So, theoretically, you can deal with everything and being with Dao in the meantime.

[Lao Tzu]

That would be the ideal, wouldn't it? The biggest challenge would be getting around the competition that is required in a lot of the areas of our life.

Dao is everywhere, everything.

So, theoretically, you can deal with every competition and being with Dao in the meantime.

[Marblehead]

Dao is everywhere, everything.

So, theoretically, you can deal with every competition and being with Dao in the meantime.

 

Yes.

[ChiDragon]

The thing is many meditation can be harmful to one's health if one can not handle it proberly. It is not what I said, it is what the sages said.

 

Yes, you can feel some magic feeling in your body when you meditate, but it means nothing in most of the time.

 

Lao Tzu...

You need to justify this to all of us why you say that the sages said that. Keep repeating this does not resolved anything.

[Fu_dog]

Lao Tzu -

 

Sorry but you are simply giving your opinion, and nothing more.

 

You are basically saying "I'm right, others are wrong" and to me that is a tired argument used followers of almost every major religion and/or philosophy.

 

I'm glad you think you have it figured out, because if it works for you then great.

 

Enjoy.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Fu_dog

[Protector]

Something tells me you don't agree with him, Fu_dog

[Lao Tzu]

 

Okay, now you are saying things that I can actually agree with. I agree, there are many meditative practices that would be dangerous if a person were to attempt without proper knowledge and guidance. I have never experienced with any of these. But then there are many forms that can be practiced that would present no danger to anyone practicing them.

 

The thing is it is almost impossible to get the proper knowledge and guidance.

So why we take the risk?

[Protector]

The thing is it is almost impossible to get the proper knowledge and guidance.

So why we take the risk?

 

Because that's the way to live a life

[Lao Tzu]

Lao Tzu...

You need to justify this to all of us why you say that the sages said that. Keep repeating this does not resolved anything.

The idea is sedimentated after I read hundreds of books from libraries and bookstores. And most of them are not available on line.

So showing the proof is not easy for me. But I would try.

[Lao Tzu]

Because that's the way to live a life

No, meditation is not the way to live a life.

[Protector]

I was talking about tacking risks actually

[Lao Tzu]

I was talking about tacking risks actually

If we have other options, why we take this risk?

[Marblehead]

The thing is it is almost impossible to get the proper knowledge and guidance.

So why we take the risk?

 

From what I have seen on this forum there are a number of teachers I think could handle that requirement very well and it has been pointed out before that there are some practices that should not be attemped by anyone on their own but to have proper instruction and guidance before-hand.

 

Why take the risk? Some people enjoy taking risks. I'm not one of those any more but I used to be.

[Lao Tzu]

From what I have seen on this forum there are a number of teachers I think could handle that requirement very well and it has been pointed out before that there are some practices that should not be attemped by anyone on their own but to have proper instruction and guidance before-hand.

 

Why take the risk? Some people enjoy taking risks. I'm not one of those any more but I used to be.

What kind of teacher can be the proper teacher for teaching meditation?

The answer is only sages can be the teachers.

So before you learn from a "teacher", you must make sure he or she is a sage. Do you know how to judge if a person is a sage or not?

 

We could take a risk Only when we think the risk is worth to take on account of the potential benefit.

[Aaron]

The basic Taoist form of meditation (to my knowledge) is similar to Zen meditation, in that a person does not actually focus on anything, but instead they try to clear (or if it's easier to understand, clean) their mind of all thought. It's sort of like cleaning a mirror of the dirt, in order to get a better understanding of what you're looking at. So a person who meditates is not trying to achieve anything while they are meditating, rather they are allowing all thought to pass from their mind, so that they can become more aware of who they are. In essence this practice allows one to become more aware of the present and their place within the present. In doing so once can begin to cultivate Wu Wei simply by clearing their mind of random thoughts and being more aware of their surroundings. In this state one can begin to act more intuitively rather than rely on logical thought to interact with the conditions within their lives.

 

At least that's my own experience. As a side note, my lack of meditation for the last few days has caused me to become much more irritable and discontent in my day to day life, so for me meditation seems to be an important part of maintaining balance and cultivating awareness.

 

Aaron

[Lao Tzu]

The basic Taoist form of meditation (to my knowledge) is similar to Zen meditation, in that a person does not actually focus on anything, but instead they try to clear (or if it's easier to understand, clean) their mind of all thought. It's sort of like cleaning a mirror of the dirt, in order to get a better understanding of what you're looking at. So a person who meditates is not trying to achieve anything while they are meditating, rather they are allowing all thought to pass from their mind, so that they can become more aware of who they are. In essence this practice allows one to become more aware of the present and their place within the present. In doing so once can begin to cultivate Wu Wei simply by clearing their mind of random thoughts and being more aware of their surroundings. In this state one can begin to act more intuitively rather than rely on logical thought to interact with the conditions within their lives.

 

At least that's my own experience. As a side note, my lack of meditation for the last few days has caused me to become much more irritable and discontent in my day to day life, so for me meditation seems to be an important part of maintaining balance and cultivating awareness.

 

Aaron

I totally understand what you said here.

But, it is not real Wu Wei. You can agree with me only after you have read hundreds of the books which were written by the sages.

[thelerner]

A very spiritual man once said 'I meditate once a day.. for 24 hours'. Another very spiritual person meditated only 24 minutes a day (a minute for each hour). I assume its partly because they spend most of the day in a meditative state of mind.

 

Still I think long long hours of meditation come before that state of constancy becomes a norm.

 

There are some intellectual routs to the top levels. But they become as unbalanced as the meditative ones if you don't have a great teacher or stray off the path.

 

Seems like me you can reach the 'top' and still be unbalanced. Wu Wei, Emptiness, non duality.. requires mastery of oneself and that requires knowing oneself, others, nature, yin yan, 5 elements and there interactions.