Lao Tzu Posted December 26, 2011 A very spiritual man once said 'I meditate once a day.. for 24 hours'. Another very spiritual person meditated only 24 minutes a day (a minute for each hour). I assume its partly because they spend most of the day in a meditative state of mind. Â Still I think long long hours of meditation come before that state of constancy becomes a norm. Â There are some intellectual routs to the top levels. But they become as unbalanced as the meditative ones if you don't have a great teacher or stray off the path. Â Seems like me you can reach the 'top' and still be unbalanced. Wu Wei, Emptiness, non duality.. requires mastery of oneself and that requires knowing oneself, others, nature, yin yan, 5 elements and there interactions. There are some good way which has no risk, you will never get unbalanced. Â Meditation is the most likely to make people unbalanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) I totally understand what you said here. But, it is not real Wu Wei. You can agree with me only after you have read hundreds of the books which were written by the sages. Â Lao Tzu, Â One Hundred books by the sages? Be done with learning! If you've read one hundred books by the sages, you've read 100 too many. Stop studying and start practicing! Have you ever tried meditation? If you haven't, then my own recommendation is that before you criticize meditation, you try it first. One can be told how to meditate, but one can never learn what meditation is without practicing it. It is like reading a book about fishing. Yes, you might know the techniques for fishing, but only a fisherman can catch a fish. Â edit- Also keep in mind your ideas about meditation are not correct. Taoist empty mind meditation does not require you to focus on anything, but rather to stop focusing on anything and allow your mind to become clear as water. If a thought comes, then accept that thought, but let it pass. Keep letting them pass and with enough practice you mind will become still and then you can achieve and understand without doubt or hesitation the wu wei experience. Keep practicing and you will find that even within a crowded mall you can find the stillness beneath the surface, and from that stillness will arise actions absent of intention, actions that arise from the highest form of virtue. Â Â Anyways, good luck with whatever you choose. Â Aaron Edited December 26, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lao Tzu Posted December 26, 2011 Lao Tzu, Â One Hundred books by the sages? Be done with learning! If you've read one hundred books by the sages, you've read 100 too many. Stop studying and start practicing! Have you ever tried meditation? If you haven't, then my own recommendation is that before you criticize meditation, you try it first. One can be told how to meditate, but one can never learn what meditation is without practicing it. It is like reading a book about fishing. Yes, you might know the techniques for fishing, but only a fisherman can catch a fish. Â Aaron Before I read these 100 books, I did some meditation. But while I read these books, I realize the so-called "meditation" is a wrong way for Dao. After that, I started to practise according to the books, and I was experiencing the real Dao. It is really fantastic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) Before I read these 100 books, I did some meditation. But while I read these books, I realize the so-called "meditation" is a wrong way for Dao. After that, I started to practise according to the books, and I was experiencing the real Dao. It is really fantastic. Â If you practiced meditation, then why are you having such a hard time grasping its concepts? I think you were not practicing it the correct way. I am glad you have read so many books, obviously much more than I. I know little about Tao and meditation compared to you, but the knowledge I share with you is meant to benefit you, and encourage you to sincerely try it, before you pass your final judgement. Â Passing judgement on something, without knowing completely what it is, is like walking through the desert and throwing out the last of your water because there is a bug in it. Forget the bug, drink the water. Â Aaron Edited December 26, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lao Tzu Posted December 26, 2011 If you practiced meditation, then why are you having such a hard time grasping its concepts? I think you were not practicing it the correct way. I am glad you have read so many books, obviously much more than I. I know little about Tao and meditation compared to you, but the knowledge I share with you is meant to benefit you, and encourage you to sincerely try it, before you pass your final judgement. Â Passing judgement on something, without knowing completely what it is, is like walking through the desert and throwing out the last of your water because there is a bug in it. Forget the bug, drink the water. Â Aaron I can understand all the meditations which were talked here by you guys so far. So I don't think I didn't get the concepts of meditation. Â The judgement which I passed here is not from me, is from the sages. I think they had tons of practices. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) I can understand all the meditations which were talked here by you guys so far. So I don't think I didn't get the concepts of meditation. Â The judgement which I passed here is not from me, is from the sages. I think they had tons of practices. Â Please name these sages and explain the judgements they passed to me. You are obviously far more knowledgeable about this topic than I am, so any information you might give me would help me to understand what you are saying more clearly. Right now I only hear you say, these men said you were wrong, but I do not know who these men were or what they said, only what you have said they said. Â A man who argues with another man's words will soon find that the boat is he is in goes wherever it wishes. Â Aaron Edited December 26, 2011 by Twinner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lao Tzu Posted December 26, 2011 Please name these sages and explain the judgements they passed to me. You are obviously far more knowledgeable about this topic than I am, so any information you might give me would help me to understand what you are saying more clearly. Right now I only hear you say, these men said you were wrong, but I do not know who these men were or what they said, only what you have said they said. Â A man who argues with another man's words will soon find that the boat is he is in goes wherever it wishes. Â Aaron That is the difficult part for me. I have states the reason somewhere here. But I remember I pointed out a sage here. His name is zhangziyang. His words is also put here by me and given the translation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Friend Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) Edited December 26, 2011 by Friend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted December 26, 2011 What are the name of these ancient sages and why they say that? Do they tell a good way to pursue Dao? In which book and where in the book is this information? Â This thread is so long that people get confused Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 26, 2011 That is the difficult part for me. I have states the reason somewhere here. But I remember I pointed out a sage here. His name is zhangziyang. His words is also put here by me and given the translation. Â But that is only one sage. Who are the other sages and what do they have to say? One sage does not make sages, unless he has a few children that end up becoming sages. Â Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted December 26, 2011 Maaaaaaaaaaaaan, if only we had some sages on the forum, things would be a lot easier Thought I can guess what they all would say NOTHING!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted December 26, 2011 I guess the only reason people still get involved in this discussion is because they can simply not comprehend that someone is so ignorant that he is completely impervious to the facts and reality! You know why you ignored my hint to John Chang, oh Lord of Ignorance, do you? Â FACT IS: The only person we know for sure is a taoist immortal and therefore reached the final goal of taoism, lives the tao etc. is JOHN CHANG! He got there BY MEDITATION/NEI GONG/ENERGY WORK!!! THAT PROVES YOUR THESIS WRONG!!! END OF THIS (ridiculous) DISCUSSION! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted December 26, 2011 It's a fun thread and I'm still 100% on Lao Tzu's side I'm also bored Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lao Tzu Posted December 26, 2011 I guess the only reason people still get involved in this discussion is because they can simply not comprehend that someone is so ignorant that he is completely impervious to the facts and reality! You know why you ignored my hint to John Chang, oh Lord of Ignorance, do you? Â FACT IS: The only person we know for sure is a taoist immortal and therefore reached the final goal of taoism, lives the tao etc. is JOHN CHANG! He got there BY MEDITATION/NEI GONG/ENERGY WORK!!! THAT PROVES YOUR THESIS WRONG!!! END OF THIS (ridiculous) DISCUSSION! How can you tell John Chang is a immortal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) How can you tell John Chang is a immortal? Â Edited December 26, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted December 26, 2011 Â That's right, it's spelled 'an immortal' not 'a immortal' 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunder_Gooch Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) That's right, it's spelled 'an immortal' not 'a immortal' Â Edited December 26, 2011 by More_Pie_Guy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 26, 2011 What kind of teacher can be the proper teacher for teaching meditation? The answer is only sages can be the teachers. So before you learn from a "teacher", you must make sure he or she is a sage. Do you know how to judge if a person is a sage or not? Â We could take a risk Only when we think the risk is worth to take on account of the potential benefit. Â Yep. I have to agree with you although I don't necessarily agree that all teachers must be sages. I have learned from all different types of people with all different levels of awareness. Â But regarding the more advanced levels of meditation I pretty much agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 26, 2011 Seems like me you can reach the 'top' and still be unbalanced. Wu Wei, Emptiness, non duality.. requires mastery of oneself and that requires knowing oneself, others, nature, yin yan, 5 elements and there interactions. Â Just wanted to voice my agreement with this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 26, 2011 This thread is so long that people get confused  Hehehe. Maybe we were already confused and we are just beginning to realize it through this discussion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 26, 2011 I guess the only reason people still get involved in this discussion is because ... Â Good try Dorian. Hehehe. Â I am rather enjoying this. It has been a beautiful example of understandings and misunderstandings. Both being totally subjective, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 26, 2011 I'm also bored  That's because you haven't presented your understandings so I can challenge you on them. I can offer you even more fun if you give me the opportunity. Hehehe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 26, 2011 That's right, it's spelled 'an immortal' not 'a immortal' Â I have been immoral a few times. Does that count? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) Â WTF is wrong with you? Why would you post something like this, regardless of the topic? I could accept the first one, but did you ever think some kids might be on this forum. I don't want to see this shit, so I'm certain a parent wouldn't want their kids too either. Did you even think before you put this image up? Â Aaron Edited December 26, 2011 by Twinner 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lao Tzu Posted December 26, 2011 So, how can you tell John Chang is an immortal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
