Meditation is not a good way for practising

[Lao Tzu]

Deep breathing is 深呼吸.

 

What is your definition of meditation in Chinese....???

 

What is your definition of chi in Chinese....???

I know 深呼吸， I thought there may be some specific term meaning for deep breathing.

Why you ask me such two questions? and ingore my question?

[Protector]

Well there is I guy who I think is all that but he doesn't teach anymore and he was more well known in the 90s

He doesn't teach but he taught a few people so they would teach instead, and if I gave you his name I bet you would call him bad things for no reason

[Lao Tzu]

Not all meditations are qigong meditations. Some meditations can be taught by non-immortals, and are natural and beneficial to health. Just watching the breath and keeping good posture is the basis for a lot of buddhist practice. A lot of people find it beneficial in a lot of ways!!

 

isn't something beneficial to health in accord with the dao?

That is not the topic which we are talking about.

[Lao Tzu]

poor guy. Whats wrong with inner light?? I do chakra meditations every day, they are very beneficial!!

 

Do you speak from any experience?

No, not this experience. just my own experiences and theories.

What kind of benefit do you get? Can you describe it for me?

[dawei]

1. It is NOT the intention of the Dao, because Dao has no intention.

2. It is just an intention of a human being.

3. You are a manifestation of Dao; that is saying that your spirit and your body are born with Dao. But if you have an intention, the intention is beyond the natural way of Dao, it leads you to a path toward death.

4. The sages found that no intention is consistent with Dao.

I have studied under two Qigong masters. One is in the Jerry Johnson program that some know about here. But there is the story of the technique called the "Flying Dragon" when doing Medical Qigong on another; That one has to 'lock the wrist' to prevent Qi infiltration from the patient to the practitioner. The reason Jerry instituted the 'lock' was because he found in his experience and then also in clinical setting that Qi appears to be able to manifest an intention. I might say this is what Chidragon mentions as 走火入魔(run fire enter the devil), or 'possessed by the devil'; in this case, it would mean, a 'dispersion of maleficent Qi'. Later when I used the technique I had the issue arise when I forget to perform the 'lock'. The other person's Qi knew this somehow.

 

 

The active meditation, I did it before and not so much good feeling, further more, when I read the books and got the idea, put the idea into practice, I experienced the difference. So in theory and practice, I convinced myself that active meditation is not the true Dao and therefore it is not the best practice method.

Or you just did not have proper instruction or guidance. It is not necessary to make it so black and white to require 'an immortal' to teach you the correct method... but I am not going to argue too strongly since I understand your point.

 

When I practice, I almost never have an intention to follow Dao. I just see all the things around me with a theory of Dao.

Using that capacity is Zi Ran(自然), but if you want to arrange your mind specifically for Dao, that is not Zi Ran.

There is something about this I do agree with and found to work against itself.

 

You know, in the point view of Dao, you are not a human, you are spiritual beyond human.

I agree... but since we interact with the three realms of spirit, energy and physical we are something beyond it all.

[Lao Tzu]

Well there is I guy who I think is all that but he doesn't teach anymore and he was more well known in the 90s

He doesn't teach but he taught a few people so they would teach instead, and if I gave you his name I bet you would call him bad things for no reason

If I call someone bad things, I would give my reason.

If you don't believe, try it.

[Protector]

I still think you might bother him and I'm kinda scared of him

[Lao Tzu]

I still think you might bother him and I'm kinda scared of him

OK, that is fine.

[ChiDragon]

I know 深呼吸， I thought there may be some specific term meaning for deep breathing.

Why you ask me such two questions? and ingore my question?

 

If you can answer these two questions, then you might answer your own questions.

 

At the present, I don't know what kind of knowledge you have on meditation.

[Lao Tzu]

 

What is your definition of meditation in Chinese....???

 

What is your definition of chi in Chinese....???

Meditation: 我只说最常见的形式：静坐+意念

Chi： 道家的气 和中医的 气 是一个概念，就是指运行在人体内的真气。

[ChiDragon]

Meditation: 我只说最常见的形式：静坐+意念

Chi： 道家的气 和中医的 气 是一个概念，就是指运行在人体内的真气。

What is 氣功 to you then....???

[Protector]

Here's a theory I have about why sages are so powerful without meditation and qi gong

You know about Jing Chi and Yi, right? To do an action(jing), a person needs to intend it(yi), and for that to work, intention uses energy(chi). People meditate and exercise for hours to get enough chi to do whatever they want to do. That is very hard and annoying. If a person is a sage, he can merge his intention with the intention of the universe(shen). When a person is like that, the person is one with the Dao.

 

ChiDragon, could you translate this for me? I don't think I can get my point across unless I speak Chinese

[ChiDragon]

.............................

 

Sorry. I have to decline your request. It is because that I may have the same problem with him in Chinese.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

So the thread is not going to end after all

[ChiDragon]

That's right. The Lao Tze spirit never dies.....

[Thunder_Gooch]

The true path to the Tao is with silly walks:

 

Edited January 1, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Lao Tzu]

What is 氣功 to you then....???

气功是指通过某种方法调节体内精气神三宝，使精气充足，达到祛病延年的效果。

[konchog uma]

That is not the topic which we are talking about.

 

well if you're dictating what i can talk about, i'm done talking.

[Lao Tzu]

well if you're dictating what i can talk about, i'm done talking.

No, I didn't mean that.

I mean the meditation you mentioned there is not the type we had been talking about.

[ChiDragon]

气功是指通过某种方法调节体内精气神三宝，使精气充足，达到祛病延年的效果。

 

He says:

Chi Kung is some kind of method that manipulates the three treasures, Jing, Chi, Shen, let the Jing and Chi be abundant to attain the efficacy of healing and longevity.

 

What is this "some kind of method".....??? He didn't say what it was but making another general statement as usual in all his posts.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

My conclusion about how Lao Tzu came to his idea about meditation was:

 

The risk that he mentioned harm may or may not harm the practitioner was pointing at the idea of 走火入魔(Run fire enter the devil). I recall that we had a discussion about that sometime ago in another thread. The term 走火入魔(Run fire enter the devil) one can find it in many fiction stories. If you ask a Chinese Chi Kung instructor, he will say that could only happen at a much higher level of Chi Kung practice. At lower level of practice, it cannot cause any harm. It is because, at the lower level, a practitioner doesn't know well enough how to manipulate Chi inside the body to make an error to cause harm to the body.

 

I think that was what Lao Tzu was trying to say but he did not express it explicitly.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Lao Tzu]

He says:

Chi Kung is some kind of method that manipulates the three treasures, Jing, Chi, Shen, let the Jing and Chi be abundant to attain the efficacy of healing and longevity.

 

What is this "some kind of method".....??? He didn't say what it was but making another general statement as usual in all his posts.

因为方法不一，所以我没有具体指出。

比如静坐意念控制，肢体运动，导引，呼吸调节，内丹功法等，其中有些方法本身就是由于对气功的误解产生的。

[Lao Tzu]

My conclusion about how Lao Tzu came to his idea about meditation was:

 

The risk that he mentioned harm may or may not harm the practitioner was pointing at the idea of 走火入魔(Run fire enter the devil). I recall that we had a discussion about that sometime ago in another thread. The term 走火入魔(Run fire enter the devil) one can find it in many fiction stories. If you ask a Chinese Chi Kung instructor, he will say that could only happen at a much higher level of Chi Kung practice. At lower level of practice, it cannot cause any harm. It is because, at the lower level, a practitioner doesn't know well enough how to manipulate Chi inside the body to make an error to cause harm to the body.

 

I think that was what Lao Tzu was trying to say but he did not express it explicitly.

I agree with this passage,

but I never tried to express it at this aspect.

Thank you for your replenishing to my idea.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Lao Tzu

[ChiDragon]

因为方法不一，所以我没有具体指出。

比如静坐意念控制，肢体运动，导引，呼吸调节，内丹功法等，其中有些方法本身就是由于对气功的误解产生的。

 

Translation:

It was because the methods are not uniform, therefore, I did not point them out explicitly.

 

Let's say quiet sitting, meditating(意念) control, body movements, directing, breathing modulation, and internal alchemy, etc. Among them, there are some methods themselves were actually causing someone to have Chi Kung misunderstood.

 

OK, Finally, he puts out his Chinese definition of Chi Kung.

 

quiet sitting, meditation(意念) control, body movements, directing, breathing modulation, and internal alchemy,

 

I think I had indicated these are the basic criteria of the Chinese definition of Chi Kung in the past threads. This time it came out from another native which indicates that I wasn't BS'ing....

 

1. Quiet sitting was to cultivate the body.

2. Meditation(Yi) control is the intent of the mind.

3. Directing is to manipulate the Chi inside the body.

4. Breathing modulation is to breathe deep down to the lower dan tien.

5. Internal alchemy includes steps 1 through 4.

6. Body movements is the dynamic Chi Kung(動功, Dong Kung).

Edited January 2, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

First you belittle LZ in two posts and then later in the same day use him as your poster child to support your ideas because 'it came out from another native'? That's quite good manipulation skills.

 

What you fail to see is that you use the same ploy in the past: To say you have the singular correct way and everyone else is wrong (and that it is because the westerner's have it wrong). At least LZ has come around to modify what he means and answers questions asked of him. His admits his english is lacking but at least he is not trying to create two sides and then playing a game of pandering to both sides.

 

Time yet again to call BS on what your doing on this site with your games.