What's it really all about for you?

[Rishi Das]

Water vs. Fire method? What are your thoughts? How do you go about your practice? Is it all about the journey, or is it more about reaching the finish line (whatever/wherever that may be for you)?

 

I have been reading Relax Into Your Being by Bruce Frantzis and find these concepts so very interesting. On one hand, there is the water method that pretty much can be summed up as, "[This] method is known for not forcing things, for literally letting things occur in their own time...Whatever you do must feel comfortable." On the other hand the fire methodology employs a bit different strategy in that, "[Practitioners] of the fire way are true believers in the idea that, in matters of spiritual attainment, the end justifies the means. Their methods are known for their willingness to emphasize force."

 

Frantzis later goes on to talk about "the big trap" and how it relates to the immature practitioners addiction to psychic power. He states, "Emotional maturity is the absolute necessary foundation upon which spiritual power must be built." Obviously tending toward the water method, Frantzis writes, "Fascination with fire, force, opening channels, and having powerful awareness of what [one] can do with energy [one] is producing often leads to a spiritual dead end. It rarely makes one spiritually free."

 

This leads me to ask the question, do you think practices like Mo Pai are almost a kind of "trap" for people just starting out in learning the arts? Videos, like the one of Sifu John Chang almost set the stage for newcomers to right off the bat assume that siddhis are the ultimate goal of the arts which totally takes away from the real purpose of the practices themselves, not to mention that it seems like most people never end up attaining even close to what JC has. I guess Mo Pai really comes to mind because lately I have seen so many threads related to the practice and it seems as though most of it is based around a real fascination with psychic power and its attainment.

 

As a true newbee, it has for a time lead to a bit of confusion and almost taken me off track from my ultimate goal, which is complete and utter knowledge of self. I see the siddhis and think to myself, "Wow that's pretty freakin cool" and then find myself looking more into it with total fascination, which ultimately results in time being taken away from the practices I could be doing instead. For me this book has really driven home the importance of just, "letting things occur in their own time." If at the end of my journey I come to find that I have no "magic powers" i'm ok with that, it's not my reason for being here and it never was.

 

My point for posting this was to really ask all of you what your purpose for your practice really is? Why do you practice the things you do? What drives you on a daily basis to wake up and continue that which you have started? I know their are many of you here that have some really great insight and experience in the arts and i'm really just interested in what it's all about for you. I appreciate you taking the time to read this, and would love to hear some responses.

 

EDIT: Topic Title

Edited December 22, 2011 by don_vedo

[thelerner]

Fire..Water...For me it's about balance. Though as the years have gone by, I move closer to water practices and away from fiery ones, though that could change if I found the right teacher.

 

Why do it at all? Not for powers or enlightenment, other then attaining a lightening of my social/cultural conditioning. To some extent there is the relaxation response I get from meditation. When I meditate my nose runs, my sinus's open, my eyes will tear. That's just what's apparent. Perhaps my internal organs experience a similar catharsis; a state with rejuvenal properties, maybe. Psychologically there is also a resetting, a little mellowing. Who knows how crazy I'd be without it?

 

Goals?? It's like the Olympics only it's faster deeper longer. (that's what she said; could've help myself). To see myself better, not be as controlled by circumstances, find a few truths, not by reding or choosing, but through personal experience.

[Birch]

Fire will burn you out - with all of its attendant "effects"

Water will lead you out and you won't notice it until afterwards. (effects are there, but maybe not quite so unusual for us modern people)

 

Anway it goes, the point is Kan/Li. But IMO/IME it depends on who you have become, to know where to start. But damn, if you knew who you had become, practices would come easy. I personally reckon water might be safer per 5e theory, but I think I messed them both up (as a yang water gal is wont to do).

 

My point is that it depends.

 

Not very helpful, sorry!

 

But really great topic as i reckon practices might often be handed out Willy-nilly.

[voidisyinyang]

Water vs. Fire method? What are your thoughts? How do you go about your practice? Is it all about the journey, or is it more about reaching the finish line (whatever/wherever that may be for you)?

 

I have been reading Relax Into Your Being by Bruce Frantzis and find these concepts so very interesting. On one hand, there is the water method that pretty much can be summed up as, "[This] method is known for not forcing things, for literally letting things occur in their own time...Whatever you do must feel comfortable." On the other hand the fire methodology employs a bit different strategy in that, "[Practitioners] of the fire way are true believers in the idea that, in matters of spiritual attainment, the end justifies the means. Their methods are known for their willingness to emphasize force."

 

Frantzis later goes on to talk about "the big trap" and how it relates to the immature practitioners addiction to psychic power. He states, "Emotional maturity is the absolute necessary foundation upon which spiritual power must be built." Obviously tending toward the water method, Frantzis writes, "Fascination with fire, force, opening channels, and having powerful awareness of what [one] can do with energy [one] is producing often leads to a spiritual dead end. It rarely makes one spiritually free."

 

This leads me to ask the question, do you think practices like Mo Pai are almost a kind of "trap" for people just starting out in learning the arts? Videos, like the one of Sifu John Chang almost set the stage for newcomers to right off the bat assume that siddhis are the ultimate goal of the arts which totally takes away from the real purpose of the practices themselves, not to mention that it seems like most people never end up attaining even close to what JC has. I guess Mo Pai really comes to mind because lately I have seen so many threads related to the practice and it seems as though most of it is based around a real fascination with psychic power and its attainment.

 

As a true newbee, it has for a time lead to a bit of confusion and almost taken me off track from my ultimate goal, which is complete and utter knowledge of self. I see the siddhis and think to myself, "Wow that's pretty freakin cool" and then find myself looking more into it with total fascination, which ultimately results in time being taken away from the practices I could be doing instead. For me this book has really driven home the importance of just, "letting things occur in their own time." If at the end of my journey I come to find that I have no "magic powers" i'm ok with that, it's not my reason for being here and it never was.

 

My point for posting this was to really ask all of you what your purpose for your practice really is? Why do you practice the things you do? What drives you on a daily basis to wake up and continue that which you have started? I know their are many of you here that have some really great insight and experience in the arts and i'm really just interested in what it's all about for you. I appreciate you taking the time to read this, and would love to hear some responses.

 

EDIT: Topic Title

 

It is definitely about finding a real teaching and directly getting the energy transmissions. There's the shen transmission which is a laser holographic transmission that is also long distance -- can go anywhere. Then there's the qi transmission which is electromagnetic.

 

O.K. so how many people actually met a real qigong energy master that can do the above transmissions? We have one video of John Chang doing electromagnetic transmissions and setting stuff on fire which is more like the laser transmission. But as far as getting energy transmissions from John Chang we have a few students who have received them significantly and subsequently written books -- Kostas and Jim, etc. Then a few fake books claiming to teach John Chang's methods.

 

O.K. so my experience is getting the laser transmissions Chunyi Lin. So the first class he walks by me and shakes his finger at me and immediately I see bright light and my whole body fills with bliss that is pure love -- better than any sex I've had even though my girlfriend at the time was sought after by many a male. haha.

 

So my second level class Chunyi Lin says he can say what percentage a person's organ is functioning. So I go up during a break and ask him what percentage my right kidney is working. He looks at me from facing my front -- suddenly I feel this laser heat on just my right kidney that feels like pure bliss. He says: About 70%. I smile and say thanks. But I am thinking -- wow that is awesome.

 

O.K. so then I train hard and the Level 3 retreat when Chunyi Lin is in full lotus I see yellow forms shaped like humans coming out of his head and breaking off and floating out into the room towards the students. He says those are just his yin spirits going out to heal people. Then I see yellow forms shaped like humans float into the room from outside. Chunyi Lin says those are dead spirits and that he is healing them to help them find peace.

 

Now at this point I had very strong electromagnetic fields filling my body. I had fasted for a week on just half a glass of water. I had only needed 5 hours of sleep a night and I could sit in full lotus for two hours at ease. I could transmit electromagnetic fields out of my hands using the sword fingers. So I went up to Chunyi Lin during the break and I asked him: What should I do? I didn't tell him any of the above. I figured he would know. He said: Let me read your aura. Then he said this: Keep your mouth shut. I was dumbfounded. I said you mean when I meditate? He said: Yes. But then I realized that indeed I had been keeping my mouth slightly open and that my lips were dry -- that I had misunderstood Chunyi Lin about this point. Because you breath with your mouth open at first to release the bad chi energy but then after keep the mouth closed.

 

O.K. so then Chunyi lin leaves the room and it's still the break. I go sit down. Immediately the center of my brain is burning on fire -- so strong I can not handle it. I know that the point of the LEvel 3 retreat is to open the third eye. I know that I am the youngest male at the retreat and I have trained the hardest. I know that Chunyi Lin is working to open my third eye. I know that I can't handle the energy. So I stop meditating and then the burning sensation goes away.

 

So after that my energy was very strong and Chunyi Lin's assistant Jim Nance asked me to share my training at the next healing practice session. Then an old lady asked me for a healing. I didn't touch her but I forgot to not pull the energy blockages out of the top center of the head. I felt this heavy electromagnetic blob -- she couldn't see what I was doing but at the same time she started bawling. I had pulled her spirit out of her head by accident. She bawled non-stop for at least 15 minutes. I had never touched her.

 

So then I healed my mom of a serious leg condition and she no longer needed surgical stockings nor to keep her legs elevated. She screamed bloody murder at me until I ate some food. This experience was traumatic for me as I had trained hard and her response was to scream worse than ever in my face. O.K. So I stuffed some food down in front of her and then I healed her and then I left. When I had gone to work earlier the week on Monday -- I felt electromagnetic fields emanating out of the center of my head and it created this ripple sensation through the work room. Then the female in the room - I could feel her thoughts and then the pineal gland transduced her thoughts back into me so I knew them. It was telepathy.

 

O.K. so then when I sat in full lotus there was a spacetime vortex around me. When I came out of it the experience was the Emptiness -- nirvikalpa samadhi. I knew that I was not my body nor my mind. I got rid of my old journal. I got rid of my Yan Xin meditation tape. I asked Chunyi Lin about it and he said I had an enlightenment experience but I should have called him on the phone. I had stopped training. He said I should have not gotten too over-excited or too afraid. People around me were freaking out from the strong electromagnetic fields coming out of me. I could now sense their energy and it was not good. I could sense it through the walls.

 

So it was like coming back from the dead. I needed more answers. I could no longer afford all the classes nor the strict vegan salt-free diet, and I was now living farther from work. I moved nine times looking for a nice quiet place to practice but with no luck. I now was experiencing precognition in my meditation. Precognition of people dying - people that I knew but had no contact with in a long time. I befriended homeless people and I began eating dumpster food and eating meat. Before my energy channels closed up though Chunyi Lin had touched my forehead and he shot laser energy into the center of my brain. After that I had permanent electromagnetic bliss in the center of the brain. I stopped training for a couple months to see if the sensation would go away. It did not.

 

O.K. so then online I told people about Chunyi Lin but only a few took me up on it. haha. I say -- check out the testimonials of people he's healed of serious diseases -- now there's severe epilepsy, M.S., late term cancer, etc. O.K. so anyone right now can get a phone healing from Chunyi Lin and feel the laser energy themselves. Chunyi lin said how one of his masters at Shaolin -- Master Yao -- he light balls of paper on fire using his eyes. But then he did it too much and was spitting up blood in his room later on.

 

O.K. so unless people actually experience the laser energy then how can they ever know what it's like? haha. But most don't have the $90 to get a phone healing. Most really don't believe it since they can have no idea what it is like. Most can not afford to travel to Minneapolis for classes and Chunyi lin doesn't teach as much anyway anymore. I took the classes ten years ago. Then I read one book a day for ten years to translate my experience back into Western science terminology. I continued to learn from my meditation -- I learned the "O at a D" psychic mutual climax. haha. I learned how I could read people's lower emotional organ blockages -- how my organs would tingle or get hot in response to their lower emotional organ blockage. I could do the transmission long distance through walls, ceilings and even to the house next door -- or half a block away.

 

O.K. it's easier to train if you are young. If you have a quiet place to practice that will not be bothered by people who don't care about these things. If you train six hours a day then you will get results in three months -- very fast results. You can train using the self-learning materials. When you get to the advanced level then you need to get personal direct supervision -- by phone. the energy can be transmitted long distance from anywhere on the planet.

[Rishi Das]

I appreciate the responses, always nice to hear others thoughts and opinions; I figured the thread wouldn't catch wind and go very far but i'm really glad it got what it did. Thanks.