Behind the words

[Aetherous]

You used to hang out in mcDonalds trying to give female strangers orgasms at a distance, and you spend half your time accusing others of being pervs!?!

 

Well, I'll dismiss it, because there is a present and past participle that is being overlooked. Did vs do.

 

I won't. These days he still stays at his parent's house, and doesn't go out. He gives his female family members orgasms at a distance now...which is quite disturbing.

 

Here is something he recently posted:

 

Since I'm still storing up my energy that I still get perv attacked by my mom though as she's a perv. haha. It's kind of sad but I wonder if she just can't help it. So she make these perv breathing noises when she comes near me and she gets overcome by lust and she then uses her lower chakra electromagnetic consciousness to suck off my jing energy.

 

After something like 10 years of doing "healings" on his family members, they haven't even been healed of their "lower chakra blockages" and still leech off of his full lotus pose...well...at least in his mind that's what is happening.

[Informer]

after ten mutual climaxes with females then the heart chakra opens up into true love and the chi energy keeps increasing.

 

This seems misconstrued because there is not a requirement of any other person for the heart to open in true love, let alone a sexual climax?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Informer

[voidisyinyang]

This seems misconstrued because there require "no other" for the heart to open in true love, let alone a sexual climax?

 

It's not the only way for the heart chakra to open up -- it's just the way of tantra. So the other way is to bring down the shakti shen laser energy -- or if a qigong master transmits the shakti shen laser energy into you then that will open up the heart as true love. But the true love is felt like real bliss -- beyond sex bliss.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "no other" -- when the heart chakra opens up the sensation is of physical unity with another person. So it's like an electromagnetic connection inside you with the other person. The process through the "O at a Ds" works through mutual climaxes. Both climaxes are internal -- for the celibate yogi and then for the female. Or it can happen with another male if that male knows how to also have internal climaxes like a female.

Edited December 28, 2011 by fulllotus

[Informer]

It's not the only way for the heart chakra to open up -- it's just the way of tantra. So the other way is to bring down the shakti shen laser energy -- or if a qigong master transmits the shakti shen laser energy into you then that will open up the heart as true love. But the true love is felt like real bliss -- beyond sex bliss.

 

Well it is misconstrued, because it is only you who can open the heart to true love, you don't need anyone else to do that. I think even Masters are just coaxing people into doing it and not really doing it for them. That is our greatest strength and weakness is that one can only find it. Only you can do it, which applys to everyone I think.

 

Edited December 28, 2011 by Informer

[C T]

At the same time saying that someone is deluded isn't anymore of a direction either.

 

Sometimes what we interpret happening isn't what is really happening, otherwise it wouldn't be an interpretation would it?

I have no wish to argue.

 

The contents in Drew's posts can have a bewildering effect on some people.

 

If you happen to find in them some gems you could use, then good for you.

 

Alas, the issue is not about interpretations because there was not even a hint of abstract content in the above post. If you re-read it, you may see the contradictions and the misleading nature quite clearly without having to use any sort of interpretational assumptions.

[Informer]

I have no wish to argue.

 

The contents in Drew's posts can have a bewildering effect on some people.

 

If you happen to find in them some gems you could use, then good for you.

 

Alas, the issue is not about interpretations because there was not even a hint of abstract content in the above post. If you re-read it, you may see the contradictions and the misleading nature quite clearly without having to use any sort of interpretational assumptions.

 

Is it I who presented the words as an argument or were they interpreted that way?

 

I personally don't see anything conflicting to argue about, but if you do then go ahead

Edited December 28, 2011 by Informer

[voidisyinyang]

[C T]

C T -- maybe you want to be more specific. You're referring to the part about the origins of human language and the sex strike menstruation synchronization? I can quote from my book if you want - -that would give my references and clarify things....

 

Thanks, Drew, but i have to politely decline the offer.

 

My needs are quite simple, and moreover, i am not big into your theories, most of which can stretch the mind at the best of times.

 

And i also disagree with your stance on the vital role of the full-lotus position. You have a dependency, and as all dependencies go, its not healthy.

[C T]

Is it I who presented the words as an argument or were they interpreted that way?

 

I personally don't see anything conflicting to argue about, but if you do then go ahead

I liked your essay in the previous page.

 

 

(sorry, page 2 it was.) -- edited --

Edited December 28, 2011 by C T

[voidisyinyang]

Thanks, Drew, but i have to politely decline the offer.

 

My needs are quite simple, and moreover, i am not big into your theories, most of which can stretch the mind at the best of times.

 

And i also disagree with your stance on the vital role of the full-lotus position. You have a dependency, and as all dependencies go, its not healthy.

 

Hey C T the full lotus is not a stance -- it's a sitting position! haha.

 

Yeah I wish I could say the menstruation synchronization thing was my theory -- you'd have to contact the above references I gave to disagree with them if you want. haha. Camilla Power and Leslie Aiello, Professor Chris Knight, and Megan Biesele. All respectable academics if that isn't an oxymoron. haha. Actually Chris Knight is NOT respectable as he got fired for protesting at the G-20 or whatever -- yeah just like I protested and got arrested all the way through graduate school. So Chris Knight is too cool. Actually the friend I mentioned -- online friend who went to Amsterdam to meet Chunyi Lin -- then he went to meet one of the "radical anthropologists" who works with Chris Knight in London. Pretty sweet.

 

Still it's kind of silly to say you disagree with me but not give any specifics except saying that I am "dependent" on the full lotus. I mean I respect your opinion to reject my "theories" out right. haha. But then to reject the antithesis of theory -- the full lotus!!?? Or you just reject my "dependancy" on it right? haha.

 

Gee I guess Wang, Liping is dependent on the full lotus -- he sits in it four hours non-stop every night. I just do two hours. haha. Chunyi Lin also does long full lotus non-stop -- my guess it's also four hours a night. He told Jim Nance he had to do two hours of full lotus non-stop every night without missing a night to become an energy master. Yan Xin sits in full lotus -- for ever basically. So does Effie P. Chow, another full lotus energy master healer. Master Nan, Huai-chin says full lotus shows if the energy channels are open. Chunyi Lin says if you want to know if someone is really an energy master then see how long they can sit in full lotus.

 

Just-Sit is the secret meaning of Justice. haha.

[taooneusa]

v

[Mark Foote]

I really only look at my own energy, especially when I go to write, but also when I read. I try to reach into not knowing, until something comes out I didn't know before, or maybe something I knew before comes out in a different way. That's why I'm on Tao Bums, for the joy of discovery.

 

I like reading what Drew has to say, although he is oftentimes speaking as though in a dream to me. I only look at how the relationships he describes feel to me, and I find some inspiration in what I feel, usually.

 

I respect the masters of all the arts, but I like the statement of Foyan, a Ch'an teacher in 12th century China. He said that there were only two illnesses at his monastery: searching for an ass while riding an ass, and being mounted on an ass but unable to dismount. Isn't it better, he asked, never to mount the ass at all?

 

I like what Scotty has to say, and pretty much what everybody on Tao Bums has to say. The folks who realized their own helplessness, who came to a crisis and found redemption, I feel particularly close to even when they are of another faith- I feel with them as I feel with Drew, that I have inspiration from the relationships they speak of when they describe how their faith operates in their daily life.

 

I think Chunyi Lin mentioned that he does reverse breathing all day long. I find that as remarkable as his advice to sit the lotus 2 hours a day, to become a healer. Chunyi Lin by all accounts is an amazing healer, and I like what I have seen of his teaching. If I were able to sit the lotus two hours a day, I might think like Drew to become a healer. However, my effort has always been simply to teach myself to sit the lotus for forty minutes once or twice a day, to heal myself. Sometimes I think I should try to be more, to become an impeccable master, but then I realize that there's no way other than to be where I am 24/7 and that's more about not getting on the ass to begin with. So I give it up, to take it up, yet I don't expect I will become a healer.

 

The energy in people's words, the effort should be to heal ourselves, and that comes through in strange ways sometimes. I love to dance, these words somehow make me feel like that!

[Jetsun]

The problem is how can you be sure the energy you perceive coming from other people isn't just your own disowned energy coming back at you? One thing I learned from my own struggles is that the basic mechanism or way projection works is that if you disown or repress an energy you become blind to it in yourself and place it out in the world, so if you are sexually repressed you will see perverts everywhere, if your anger is repressed you will see angry destructive people out in the world everywhere, the common way this works now is that the repressed Christian countries project all their aggressive energies onto Muslims and are blind to it in themselves. Repression and denial can be so strong that you can be absolutely certain that the issue is with the other person and nothing to do with you, so if you are open enough to the idea that you suffer from delusion and may not always see reality clearly then how can you be certain the energy you experience behind someone elses post isn't your own projection? maybe you are just as guilty of the perv attacks as the people you perceive them coming from, or more guilty.

[Birch]

There are too many interesting posts on this thread!

 

Jetsun, I think my basic understanding is that "I don't know" how this stuff works but what should I do with it?

I liked Scott's suggestion that it's yours whether it originated in you or not. Responsability becomes an "ability" in that sense rather than a burden.

This being said, that the healers seem obliged to do their own cleansing (what it sounds like to me) after people have (unknowingly?) taken their trash out on them is as good an ad for self-awareness as any. I have found in many cases that my only option to deal with oversensitivity is to shut myself away to meditate on my own (in some cases "newly uncovered") "issues". Honestly, sometimes I'd just rather not.

 

So I'm looking for expeditives:-) I can't sit FL btw

[Mark Foote]

There are too many interesting posts on this thread!

 

Jetsun, I think my basic understanding is that "I don't know" how this stuff works but what should I do with it?

I liked Scott's suggestion that it's yours whether it originated in you or not. Responsability becomes an "ability" in that sense rather than a burden.

This being said, that the healers seem obliged to do their own cleansing (what it sounds like to me) after people have (unknowingly?) taken their trash out on them is as good an ad for self-awareness as any. I have found in many cases that my only option to deal with oversensitivity is to shut myself away to meditate on my own (in some cases "newly uncovered") "issues". Honestly, sometimes I'd just rather not.

 

So I'm looking for expeditives:-) I can't sit FL btw

 

I read somewhere that the latest research on PTSD shows that attitude toward the enemy affects recover, and maybe even the occurrence of PTSD in the first place. Those who respect their enemies, get over it, and those who denigrate their enemies do not.

 

No surprises there, I suppose, from an Eastern wisdom perspective.

[Birch]

That's an interesting idea Mark. I'd digress into what a "proper" enemy might be some other time. Not always clear to me.

 

I think I also liked Informer's idea about the "stuff" just sort of being there and then being sensitive to it or not. To the extent that "ownership" of emotions might not always be obvious (the idea that someone is actually angry but doesn't want to feel it so they have to piss other people off so there will be anger anyway)I think it's wise to suggest just noticing it and then going off to do whatever works to process is a practical idea but that's about it. I don't see there being a gain for the person who processes (or "exorcises" ) others' anger for example.

[Jetsun]

I don't see there being a gain for the person who processes (or "exorcises" ) others' anger for example.

 

I'm not sure that is really possible for you to process another's emotion, the way I see it is that if you are in contact with someone who is angry they will trigger or vibrate your own anger in your body, so really they are just triggering your own issues rather than passing onto you theirs. People often try to trigger you into things like anger as a way to try to be rid of their own, I think this is one of the reasons behind internet trolling, but people never become less angry by triggering other people, in the short term they might get a fix but long term their anger will just grow.

 

But I agree that to temporarily soothe another persons emotion may do them no favours in the long run, although perhaps it may be possible for a very advanced practitioner to root out the seed of anothers issue with enough time, one case of this I heard was of an intellectual academic who didn't believe in Buddhism or do any spiritual practice but stayed with the Dalai Lama and his monks for a month to write a book and he said that all his life he had resentment and anger toward his parents, but by the end of his stay with the Tibetans he said his anger had completely gone without him doing anything, so I assume the monks had taken on his karma as their own or the power of their Bodhicitta was so strong to allow him to let it go. But such cases are rare examples I think most other people who try to do this just end up crossing boundaries and cause problems.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

@Jetsun

 

I read a story of a Qi Gong healer who once cried for this warrior type guy since the patient's suppression of his sadness resulted in a large tumor. After a number of sessions the patient was healed very rapidly.

 

A similar case might be seen near the end of Story of the Weeping Camel (thanks Drew!) where these shamanic musicians play and sing to help the camel release it's emotional blocks.

 

I guess resonating with the person can help them release something they might need to release, but this would have to be done intentionally rather than just getting someone else to be angry for a moment and expecting it to cure us. Though, if other people are angry it allows us to be angry and then we might get it over with, which we probably know subconsciously.

 

Still there must be deeper reasons they need to deal with if people get angry too easily, like a misguided grudge.

[voidisyinyang]

@Jetsun

 

I read a story of a Qi Gong healer who once cried for this warrior type guy since the patient's suppression of his sadness resulted in a large tumor. After a number of sessions the patient was healed very rapidly.

 

A similar case might be seen near the end of Story of the Weeping Camel (thanks Drew!) where these shamanic musicians play and sing to help the camel release it's emotional blocks.

 

I guess resonating with the person can help them release something they might need to release, but this would have to be done intentionally rather than just getting someone else to be angry for a moment and expecting it to cure us. Though, if other people are angry it allows us to be angry and then we might get it over with, which we probably know subconsciously.

 

Still there must be deeper reasons they need to deal with if people get angry too easily, like a misguided grudge.

 

H.E. -- yes thks for mentioning the great doc -- the Weeping Camel -- it's an excellent example of this direct process of emotional energy through sound. As Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality states sound is the expression of the jing or lower emotional electrochemical energy. So just as in Taoist healing sound is used for each of the organs -- thereby cleansing the emotional blockages of each organ -- so too does each organ resonate with tingling and heat when someone else has a lower emotional blockage. The pineal gland in the center of the brain transduces this blockage back into left brain awareness -- in other words it's through the heart-pineal gland connection that we are both connected to the lower organ blockages and also their transformation back into love electromagnetic chi energy. So it's a very direct experience -- actually called "direct knowledge" if someone say...

 

I'll give you an example. I was at work alone in full lotus. No one around. Then my co-worker walked into the room and we looked at each others eyes. Suddenly I was overwhelmed by sadness -- I knew from experience I had sucked up his sadness. He had not said a word to me. He had no frown on his face. He had no body language to express sadness. Yet I knew he was extremely sad. Before I even said hi or anything I bursted out:

 

Why are you so sad? He looked back at me shocked that I knew his emotion. haha. Before he could respond I said to him.

 

You know smoking causes sadness. He knew that I knew these things because we had discussed energy blockages and healing many times but it had always been on an intellectual level for the most part. I had just started transmitting energy at work.

 

So then my coworker was so shocked that I had tagged not only his emotion but also the cause of his emotion since he was a chain smoker. He was only 24 or so -- maybe younger. He soon after quit smoking and his sadness went away! It was a great experience for both of us.

Edited December 28, 2011 by fulllotus

[Birch]

@Jetsun

 

I read a story of a Qi Gong healer who once cried for this warrior type guy since the patient's suppression of his sadness resulted in a large tumor. After a number of sessions the patient was healed very rapidly.

 

A similar case might be seen near the end of Story of the Weeping Camel (thanks Drew!) where these shamanic musicians play and sing to help the camel release it's emotional blocks.

 

I guess resonating with the person can help them release something they might need to release, but this would have to be done intentionally rather than just getting someone else to be angry for a moment and expecting it to cure us. Though, if other people are angry it allows us to be angry and then we might get it over with, which we probably know subconsciously.

 

Still there must be deeper reasons they need to deal with if people get angry too easily, like a misguided grudge.

 

I just thought. Isn't resonance resonance regardless of directionality? I was thinking this because of the anger thing and the whole "yours" vs "mine" idea. I mean of course I get angry when I feel someone has overstepped some kind of mark with me. Where those marks are, however isn't always obvious. I suppose that's why they get lumped into the nebulous "issues" category? And I get (so far) even more angry if I find out someone has been trying to get me angry so they don't have to feel it themselves. With all this talk of responsability, I find it's often the case that spiritual practitioners are the first to play the "it's all yours" card and point at things like projection without full understanding. I'm perhaps not much closer to understanding either:-) But I suspect I will never lose my capacity to resonate emotionally with people. I think it's human, maybe?

[Birch]

Oh, just to add. I mentioned a bit about this stuff to an aquaintance the other day, that I didn't want to be that person that other people used for their needs. His reply was that I should be "honoured" to act as such. Wow. Well, I declined the whole idea and that just seemed to annoy him.

 

Ok, what am I doing wrong here?

BTW, i think it's still on topic.

[Aetherous]

I am checking out this book. The exercises could prove to be very helpful in all of this...but beware, the book is DENSE.

[Jetsun]

Oh, just to add. I mentioned a bit about this stuff to an aquaintance the other day, that I didn't want to be that person that other people used for their needs. His reply was that I should be "honoured" to act as such. Wow. Well, I declined the whole idea and that just seemed to annoy him.

 

Ok, what am I doing wrong here?

BTW, i think it's still on topic.

 

I was reading something about traditional societies that the "scapegoat" would play a valuable role as a target or container for negative energy for people within the community to project onto until they were mature enough to deal with it, that person was subconsciously chosen as the scapegoat because they had the inner strength and spiritual wisdom to sublimate those energies so they do no harm, so even though they were mocked and shunned by society they played a crucial role in stability and healing. The traditional shaman played that role and other cultures had similar roles such as the "sin eater" in ancient Britain, the problem now is that people are still scapegoated but they are not valued or trained how to heal the energies they are forced to contain so they become ill and neurotic.

[Aaron]

Hello K,

 

I stayed out of this thread for quite some time, because I didn't know what it was about. I like the topic! As an English Literature/Creative Writing grad, I really appreciate the sentiment behind this, simply because most people don't seem to take the time to understand the deeper meaning in what they're reading.

 

I think understanding what's behind the words requires a bit of thought and insight, but also a good deal of intuition. Many times when I read a story, I could figure out there was something going on, without actually knowing. For instance, the first time this happened was while I was reading "The Handsomest Drowned Man in the World" by Marquez, I realized their was an allusion to Stephen, the man stoned in Acts, without really knowing it. I think now it was a subtle awareness of the attention paid to that specific scene, somehow I could feel that there was something going on there and started to research it to make sure, and sure enough the description used to describe the drowned man, was the same used to describe Stephen at the time he was stoned.

 

I think being able to see behind the words requires one to also give up some of the pleasurable aspects of reading, because it requires you to pay attention to the subtleties of the text in a way that prevent you from allowing yourself to get immersed in the text itself. At least from a scholarly perspective. I have to turn it off these days, or I become the critic and can't really enjoy what I'm watching or reading.

 

That's what this is about in the end, criticism. Criticism, which shouldn't be characterized as bad, but rather criticism in the sense that it allows us to piece together the truth behind what we're reading, the hidden truth. We do this all the time, in order to deduce the hidden meaning in everything that happens around us. Sometimes it's done through logical deduction, but more often than not the hidden message seems to arise from an intuitive understanding of what's going on.

 

Anyways, I'm not sure if that makes sense, but thanks for the topic. It seems to have gone this way and that, but it's definitely worth the time to discuss.

 

Aaron

Edited December 29, 2011 by Twinner

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I just thought. Isn't resonance resonance regardless of directionality? I was thinking this because of the anger thing and the whole "yours" vs "mine" idea. I mean of course I get angry when I feel someone has overstepped some kind of mark with me. Where those marks are, however isn't always obvious. I suppose that's why they get lumped into the nebulous "issues" category? And I get (so far) even more angry if I find out someone has been trying to get me angry so they don't have to feel it themselves. With all this talk of responsability, I find it's often the case that spiritual practitioners are the first to play the "it's all yours" card and point at things like projection without full understanding. I'm perhaps not much closer to understanding either:-) But I suspect I will never lose my capacity to resonate emotionally with people. I think it's human, maybe?

 

 

...

 

Oh, just to add. I mentioned a bit about this stuff to an aquaintance the other day, that I didn't want to be that person that other people used for their needs. His reply was that I should be "honoured" to act as such. Wow. Well, I declined the whole idea and that just seemed to annoy him.

 

Ok, what am I doing wrong here?

BTW, i think it's still on topic.

 

Hi K,

 

Well, I guess as your acquaintance would approve, I am slightly honoured that you would ask me for my opinion on this and consider that it might be worth consideration. I suppose that might be what he means in that we might be honoured to be chosen to help someone out of their situation, like honorary therapists for that person. Of course, we don't need to be honoured when someone uses us as a stepping stone, unless that is part of your practice for one reason or another. Even if it were part of a Boddhisatva training, we would still be helping that person by showing them that they can't get through life stepping on everybody and they'd best chill and come back when they've collected themselves. Accepting an actual request is not the same thing.

 

 

"I find it's often the case that spiritual practitioners are the first to play the "it's all yours" card and point at things like projection without full understanding."

 

lol. This reminds of how I used to never get sick but it seemed like I would still carry colds around from other people and give them to people. I didn't know I had them, and I didn't seem to be sick, but they were there nonetheless and people with less resistance seemed to get them from me. I could be wrong, but it seemed to happen.

 

So some people have managed to beat all the symptoms away, but they still carry the anger and so they spit it on people without even realizing what is lurking underneath them, thinking they have totally quashed it by just blocking the symptoms, but really sometimes just build up even stronger bacterias of anger which effects others very quickly. At least if we show the symptoms we can get over them, turn away when we sneeze, and deal with the issue before it affects other people.

 

It's my opinion that we can't really help resonating with our environment. I think the trick is to be in tune, but in harmony rather than the exact frequency. So we don't really change our note, we just alter it slightly to help the other person find "the pocket" of harmonic pitch ("pocket" is a rhythm term, but useful here). Then we can get others to resonate better; get them to resonate more in harmony and in tune if we change only enough to let them in. I guess this works with rhythm too, slowing down a bit to get everyone on the train, so to speak.

 

So it might come upon us to help someone out of their anger, which is not necessarily bad depending on how the opportunity is availed to us. I'm finding that most people who have negative emotions, it still comes down to desire. Few people can separate desire from effort, like if they have no desire they're afraid they'll have no work ethic or diligence or energy, which is not necessarily true at all. If I'm angry or frustrated, say I'm disrupted during meditation and my nerves get hot, it usually helps me to remember that the frustration is a desire, a desire for peace or quiet or space or time. It's another desire and if I can let it go, the frustration or anger goes with it.

 

So cooling people's anger can have a lot with getting them to let go of some unnecessary desire, if you can find what it is and make them forget about it. Contentment, happiness, and energy can co-emerge, usually...