zeitgeist

[settler]

A very interesting analyses on our society, political, economic , genetics model of life.

 

[Jetsun]

I like the beginning of that film and the Psychologist Gabor Mate is really wise in my opinion, the work he has done with Ayahuasca and addictions is really interesting and very important. Although i'm not sure they have all the answers to many of the problems they highlight, I wasn't very impressed or convinced by the Venus Project stuff they talk about.

[settler]

I agree. Not that convinced in how they will apply such broad concept, if they start to be cooperative in small areas first, i think they could be more successful.

 

while we watch so many people doing nothing... witness some debate and afford to improve our society its a start.

[Vmarco]

A very interesting analyses on our society, political, economic , genetics model of life.

 

 

 

This link adds to the perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNgSa7GvA

 

The dialogue beginning at min. 11:00 is brilliant,...and very applicable to every post on TTB.

[settler]

Think this is their slogan:

 

Manage resources up to the most possible way to remove our need to buy a car a house or to have a full time job in order to free us from the slavery of the civilization.

[Vmarco]

Think this is their slogan:

 

Manage resources up to the most possible way to remove our need to buy a car a house or to have a full time job in order to free us from the slavery of the civilization.

 

 

The slogan of all the Zeitgeist films is this:

 

"The biggest crux to the evolution of humanity is breaking through your own indoctrination. It is very, very difficult to overcome emotional elements that have become so engrained in you, that you have an immediate reaction, an immediate suffering and pain, if something interfers with [your idea of the status quo]. It's a very, very complex problem. We have to learn how to identify and break our own indoctrination if we expect to move forward at all as a civilization" PJ Merola

 

Minute 11:00 - 17:43 which includes the above quote, expresses the problem of humanity,...which as I mentioned,...is applicable to every post on TTB.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNgSa7GvA

 

 

OR...as Eckhart Tolle said, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

 

V

Edited December 29, 2011 by Vmarco

[settler]

"we need to draw our attention to what is true in us, for unless we learn to recognize the true as the true, there can be a lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into god, for that is how the true perpetuates itself"

 

love is the truth

love your self and you will find god

do you love others?

then you do not love your self

Edited December 30, 2011 by settler

[Marblehead]

love is the truth

love your self and you will find god

do you love others?

then you do not love your self

 

Hi Settler,

 

I don't like that. Hehehe. Nor do I agree with 'it'.

 

But I agree with what you are saying within limitations.

 

I agree; love your Self and you will find your Self (if you are honest).

 

Loving others will result from an honest love of your Self.

 

Words. Funny sometimes.

[Vmarco]

"we need to draw our attention to what is true in us, for unless we learn to recognize the true as the true, there can be a lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into god, for that is how the true perpetuates itself"

 

love is the truth

love your self and you will find god

do you love others?

then you do not love your self

 

"stop seeking truth, but seek and find all the barriers you have built against it"

 

Or, as a Tantric Buddhist said, "The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. On the contrary, he tries to clean himself of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. He comes to you; you just have to be prepared."

 

Love is proof that no god exists.

 

V

[settler]

Marblehead

 

was long you understand it for your self that's the important thing

[Vmarco]

[settler]

Love is proof that no god exists.

 

I manage to enter in to bliss a long time ago, before i got my self entangled in life affairs. It is a mix between Jesus Christ Salvation and Buda enlightenment.

 

How can you say such thing if you never experienced it for your self?

 

Worse, people are always quoting Buda or Christ or someone else can't you think for your self?

 

Since the moment i start posting my own thoughts i got nothing but inflammes, worse then not thinking is judging others for thinking.

 

In deep, what most peole say is others thoughts are not in the book there for can not be truth.

 

If you mix Buda self center with Christ love you will find it.

 

Quoting this or that leads you to another people quote. Sure if you want to entertain you self. Ok.

 

Look at people on Zeitgeist they say that for thinking they got death threats, guess thinking for your self can be a dangerous affair.

 

You will have more spiritual realization thinking for your self then spending your hole life read about Christ or Buda. Sure its important to have more knowledge but don't let your self be manipulated by it.

[Vmarco]

I manage to enter in to bliss a long time ago, before i got my self entangled in life affairs. It is a mix between Jesus Christ Salvation and Buda enlightenment.

 

How can you say such thing if you never experienced it for your self?

 

Worse, people are always quoting Buda or Christ or someone else can't you think for your self?

 

Quoting this or that leads you to another people quote. Sure if you want to entertain you self. Ok.

 

 

"Love is proof that no god exists" is my quote,...and it's irrefutable,...if the love being defined is unconditional.

 

"Light is proof that no god exists" is my quote,...and it's irrefutable, is we are speaking of Undivided Light.

 

"God can only be seen, felt, known, or imagined within an electromagnetic field" is my quote, and it's irrefutable.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html

 

Authentic Buddhists, like all Buddha's, did not believe in a god.

http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm

 

The makers of Zeitgeist do not believe in a god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

 

Who believes in god,...only the dishonest.

 

"I could not in good conscience, vote for someone who honestly thinks that the other 95% of us (who believe in god) suffer from some sort of mass delusion." Palmer Joss (actor Matthew McConaughey) in the 1997 film 'Contact'.

[Vmarco]

 

If you mix Buda self center with Christ love you will find it.

 

You will have more spiritual realization thinking for your self then spending your hole life read about Christ or Buda. Sure its important to have more knowledge but don't let your self be manipulated by it.

 

It is impossible to uncover any spiritual realizations from Christianity. Just look at their Christ's love:

 

"love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things", 1 Cor 13:7. Although this form of love, that is, bearing, believing, hoping and enduring is idealized by Christians, it isn't Unconditional Love, but the submission, devotion, expectation and suffering to the conditions of their religions brewed beliefs.

 

Buddhism is fully contrary to bearing, believing, hoping, and enduring. Tilopa said, that to transcend the mind's dualities all hope must die. "the highest goal is being devoid of hope and fear." But Christianity advocates hope and fear.

 

Some may ask, why did the Buddha object to hope. Simply look up the word.

 

hope n. from ME. hopa, an expectation. 1. expectation of something desired; anticipation of some future event. 2. a guess or belief. 3. that which gives hope; a substance or object hoped for; an

expected payoff.

 

Is there a more dishonest, perniciousness word than hope?

 

V

[Aaron]

"stop seeking truth, but seek and find all the barriers you have built against it"

 

Or, as a Tantric Buddhist said, "The real seeker of truth never seeks truth. On the contrary, he tries to clean himself of all that is untrue, inauthentic, insincere - and when his heart is ready, purified, the guest comes. You cannot find the guest, you cannot go after him. He comes to you; you just have to be prepared."

 

Love is proof that no god exists.

 

V

 

 

"When a soul has advanced so far on the spiritual road as to be lost to all the natural methods of communing with God; when it seeks Him no longer by meditation, images, impressions, nor by any other created ways, or representations of sense, but only by rising above them all, in the joyful communion with Him by faith and love, then it may be said to have found God of a truth, because it has truly lost itself as to all that is not God, and also as to its own self."

 

-St. John of the Cross

Edited December 30, 2011 by Twinner

[Vmarco]

[Aaron]

Some more quotes from St John of the Cross-

 

"The very pure spirit does not bother about the regard of others or human respect, but communes inwardly with God, alone and in solitude as to all forms, and with delightful tranquility, for the knowledge of God is received in divine silence."

 

"Love consists not in feeling great things but in having great detachment and in suffering for the Beloved."

 

"Souls will be unable to reach perfection who do not strive to be content with having nothing, in such fashion that their natural and spiritual desire is satisfied with emptiness; for this is necessary in order to reach the highest tranquility and peace of spirit. Hence the love of God in the pure and simple soul is almost continually in act."

 

"If you desire to discover peace and consolation for your soul and to serve God truly, do not find your satisfaction in what you have left behind, because in that which now concerns you you may be as impeded as you were before, or even more. But leave as well all these other things and attend to one thing alone that brings all these with it (namely, holy solitude, together with prayer and spiritual and divine reading), and persevere there in forgetfulness of all things."

 

"Strive to preserve your heart in peace; let no event of this world disturb it; reflect that all must come to an end."

 

-----

 

 

It seems to me, that if you were to ask a Buddhist Monk whether or not the man who said these things was enlightened, most would agree that he was. Now, saying that, I will also admit that I am not a Christian, nor do I believe in God (or Gods) for that matter, but I can easily change God here for the concept of universal consciousness and say that he was onto something.

 

My reason for quoting these texts was simply to add some comments that reflect exactly what you've been saying in most of your threads. I would've thought you could've used this as a way to prove your argument that all religions hold truths, and that clinging to any one would be a detriment to understanding the truth.

 

Also I firmly believe that St John of Cross was enlightened, and that many people from religions other than Buddhism have achieved enlightenment. If anything I think this confirms my belief that enlightenment and understanding of non-duality is inherently influenced by one's practice. If you are a practicing Buddhist, then when you achieve enlightenment, your experience will be influenced by your experiences as a buddhist and color that experience. So perhaps, rather than urge people to give up their old beliefs in regards to achieving an awareness, it is better to urge them to attain a communion with the source of their spirituality?

 

My final point is that when I hear St John talk about light, it reminds me a great deal of you talking about light.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Aaron

Edited December 31, 2011 by Twinner

[settler]

It is impossible to uncover any spiritual realizations from Christianity.

 

When i was around 10 years i decided to abandon all that i have. (Buda self abandon)

 

God descend upon me and said: "how our you"? (Christianity God)

 

i replay: "i prefer the place i come from".

 

He then show me the other plane:

 

We have all possible things in one state, no movement, no food, no sleep, only love, only happiness all in one state. We already have all things.

 

God asked : "is this you want?"

 

I replay: "I'm to young i want to see what life is".

 

(he went away...)

 

You need to be very well prepared in order to accept that.

 

If you not know what love is or not abandon all that you have, how are you going to accept such thing?

 

To receive all for nothing you will surely think its madness.

 

Now for what i have understand we reincarnate from a plane of fullness in to a plane of emptiness. Having all to having nothing in order to give value to the fullness state. In the bible God say this in symbol form: "Angels can not evolve there for can not learn". Irony also? We are the angels.

 

Do not ask me where Jesus is because i do not know, nor ask me about Buda enlightenment i also do not know. As i stated before, it is a mix of Jesus love with Buda abandon off all things. Only by abandon all you have can you receive all back. Its not at a material level but at an emotional one which can be the same. First you let go in the mind and then in the physical world.

 

"Jesus to Peter: there will be a time when you will be prevented to use your own will". Jesus consider this as spiritual practice, allow your self, by your free will to be chained in prison.

 

If you want experience the indescribable fullness, love your self up to a point to abandon all that you have so you can enlighten your self, but it will be by God hand.

[Marblehead]

Marblehead

 

was long you understand it for your self that's the important thing

 

That's pretty much the bottom line, isn't it?

[Aaron]

When i was around 10 years i decided to abandon all that i have. (Buda self abandon)

 

God descend upon me and said: "how our you"? (Christianity God)

 

i replay: "i prefer the place i come from".

 

He then show me the other plane:

 

We have all possible things in one state, no movement, no food, no sleep, only love, only happiness all in one state. We already have all things.

 

God asked : "is this you want?"

 

I replay: "I'm to young i want to see what life is".

 

(he went away...)

 

You need to be very well prepared in order to accept that.

 

If you not know what love is or not abandon all that you have, how are you going to accept such thing?

 

To receive all for nothing you will surely think its madness.

 

Now for what i have understand we reincarnate from a plane of fullness in to a plane of emptiness. Having all to having nothing in order to give value to the fullness state. In the bible God say this in symbol form: "Angels can not evolve there for can not learn". Irony also? We are the angels.

 

Do not ask me where Jesus is because i do not know, nor ask me about Buda enlightenment i also do not know. As i stated before, it is a mix of Jesus love with Buda abandon off all things. Only by abandon all you have can you receive all back. Its not at a material level but at an emotional one which can be the same. First you let go in the mind and then in the physical world.

 

"Jesus to Peter: there will be a time when you will be prevented to use your own will". Jesus consider this as spiritual practice, allow your self, by your free will to be chained in prison.

 

If you want experience the indescribable fullness, love your self up to a point to abandon all that you have so you can enlighten your self, but it will be by God hand.

 

Great story. Thanks for sharing it.

 

Aaron

 

 

[Marblehead]

Since the moment i start posting my own thoughts i got nothing but inflammes, worse then not thinking is judging others for thinking.

 

Ah!, easy goes it, my friend. I responded to your post because I thought it was of value. Sure, I offered you my true feelings regarding the post. You'll get used to me after a while.

 

I enjoy talking with people rather than just reading quotes they have posted from other people. I enjoy discussing understandings even when I an whoever are in initial disagreement. This indeed broadens my perspective even if we do not reach an agreement.

 

Yeah, Vmarco likes to quote others a lot. That is just his way of doing things. But he does also speak for himself so look for those times and speak 'with' him.

 

I have enjoyed your participation and without your post I still likely would not be posting in this thread. I thank you for that.

[Vmarco]

It seems to me, that if you were to ask a Buddhist Monk whether or not the man who said these things was enlightened, most would agree that he was.

 

Not any authentic Buddhist,...and certainly no Bodhisattva.

 

Any notion of god steps between a sentient being and their direct experience. Not sure what your problem is,...a condition cannot enter the Unconditional. It is absolutely impossible for a Christian to realize enlightenment,...except if he dissolved such a belief just prior to awakening. One cannot, under any reason, enter the Heart with beliefs.

 

All beliefs are part of the Skandhas,...god is a belief. Their is no god beyond delusional thinking,...every authentic Buddhist would agree. Those who would disagree, like Thich Nhat Hanh, are not true Buddhists, but have some sort of deluded theist agenda.

 

The ONLY way to uncover enlightenment is through honesty. No honest person believes in a god.

 

"If I ask you why you believe any particular matter of fact, which you relate, you must tell me some reason; and this reason will be some other fact, connected with it. But as you cannot proceed after this manner, in infinitum, you must at last terminate in some fact, which is present to your memory or senses; or must allow that your belief is entirely without foundation." David Hume

[Aaron]

Not any authentic Buddhist,...and certainly no Bodhisattva.

 

Any notion of god steps between a sentient being and their direct experience. Not sure what your problem is,...a condition cannot enter the Unconditional. It is absolutely impossible for a Christian to realize enlightenment,...except if he dissolved such a belief just prior to awakening. One cannot, under any reason, enter the Heart with beliefs.

 

All beliefs are part of the Skandhas,...god is a belief. Their is no god beyond delusional thinking,...every authentic Buddhist would agree. Those who would disagree, like Thich Nhat Hanh, are not true Buddhists, but have some sort of deluded theist agenda.

 

The ONLY way to uncover enlightenment is through honesty. No honest person believes in a god.

 

"If I ask you why you believe any particular matter of fact, which you relate, you must tell me some reason; and this reason will be some other fact, connected with it. But as you cannot proceed after this manner, in infinitum, you must at last terminate in some fact, which is present to your memory or senses; or must allow that your belief is entirely without foundation." David Hume

 

But don't you see that these are your own beliefs, which you also could be said to avidly cling too. So here's my question to you, how is your own self defined short path Buddhism, based on your own intellectual diaspora of Western and Eastern philosophers any different than someone who just follows Christianity, Buddhism, or any other religion? While we're on the topic, how about the Mahayana and Theravada Buddhists that believe in Gods, where do they rank here? Do they receive as much disdain as the Christians, or are the Christians especially vile because of who they are?

 

I wonder sometimes if you have somehow tricked yourself into believing you're objective, when in fact your ideas have simply replaced God in your mind? I think that until you get rid of this entire notion of short path, long path, Buddhism, Christianity, and all the other philosophical messages you've picked up in your lifetime and completely stilled your mind, that you'll never be able to see through the message you've learned from others.

 

That's the other thing that amazes me, that so many people on here who have supposedly reached enlightenment, don't understand that the idea of getting rid of these philosophies, has nothing to do with not believing them anymore or abandoning these institutions, but rather entering a state within meditation where you have given them up by reaching a place of complete silence, with no distraction or thought, it is then, when you are free from these beliefs, that you can achieve an awareness of emptiness, the infinite source, and all of the other things everyone seems to know so much about, but can't seem to explain without quoting someone else.

 

Also the word authentic is tricky and subjective, and somewhat puritanical, which is one reason I never use it.

 

This isn't meant to be argumentative or a personal attack. I think of many of the people on this board, you're one of the closest to realization, but in the same way, I think you have some inherent ideas and beliefs that are holding you back as well. Of all the people I've talked to, other than Matt Black, Xabir is the only one I've met who's been able to put their experience into their own words without resorting to quotes. That's a clear sign of someone who has had an authentic experience.

 

Anyways, happy new years! I hope this doesn't put a kabash on our dialogue, because I do enjoy discussing these things, my own little attachment.

 

 

Aaron

Edited December 31, 2011 by Twinner

[settler]

The ONLY way to uncover enlightenment is through honesty. No honest person believes in a god.

 

Vmarco are you still hurry about the others or you hurry about your self?

 

When i write that i was to entangle in life affairs i mean that i start to hurry about my social image to much.

 

Its not what you write Vmarco is how you write it.

 

Just because, how you written Vmarco, i know you have to much sexual energy circulating.

 

You can fix that by hurry more about your self. Care less about studying, you study that much to put it in others face.

 

This is just an example nothing to do with you. Like many people who meditate; They do it to show a state to others, they don't do it for them self's, in the deep, they don't want peace they don't want enlightenment they just want something to put in others face.

 

Enlightenment means peace, show peace to your self, enjoy peace, be in peace. If any one or any thing don't give you peace not go near them unless you have the strength to show them peace.

 

Enlightenment is the same was belief or believing. A search for a state or thing to put it in others face. Its an emotional state. The truth or love is opposite to enlightenment, do not attach to enlightenment and you will save your soul.

 

If you read Da Mo teaching, he speaks more on salvation of the soul then any thing else. This concepts can easy miss lead you to serve others needs.

 

Lets say you go to a congregation of zen monks, they tell you: our path is enlightenment, Buda enlightenment him self, its available to all, any one can became a Buda. Come and meditate with us.

 

How miss leading this can be?

 

Did they give you any thing? Did they have any to offer? They offer their own goals to you, a true master will tell you search your own peace. Search how to love our self.

 

enlightenment is just another form of belief, so the religious authority can profit with you.

 

In this topic: "PLEASE READ THIS! HOW DO YOU CHANGE SOMEONE!?!?!?! There must be a way?";

 

AЯAB says: "Honestly F*** every thing I've ever said on tao bums I don't give a rats ass about enlightenment or any of that, I want my family back to normal";

 

This is closer to self love and peace that you can ever get.

 

Vmarco its your choice to undertake the eternal search to find something to put on others face or choose to love your self.

[Vmarco]

But don't you see that these are your own beliefs, which you also could be said to avidly cling too.

 

I'm not discussing "my beliefs" or "my truth",...a belief is a condition,...and if you try to bring those conditions into the Unconditional (the Heart-Mind), you will NEVER access Heart-Mind. That's Buddhism is a nutshell. Not the belief of Buddhism,...but the instruction of Buddhism that points to Heart-Mind.

 

Some Buddhists say,...if you see Buddha in your meditations, kill him. Buddha does not belong in your meditations. If you have any beliefs during your meditations, then your meditations are inadequate.

 

Experience born through belief, can ONLY be experienced through the condition of that belief.

 

You (Aaron) are assuming that because you have beliefs, that everyone must be speaking through their beliefs. With such a belief, you WILL NEVER experience the essence of Undivided Light. One must fully surrender,...surrender ALL their beliefs, before entering Heart-Mind.

 

The 6 senses cannot enter Heart-Mind. There are no beliefs beyond the 6 senses.

 

V