Can someone tell me the names of Qigong masters in America?

[Lao Tzu]

Actually Chunyi Lin says Lao Tzu touched his head. So....

So what?

[Taomeow]

I find it quite funny that in the land of the free Chigung can be quite an expensive practice to acquire.

 

Most of the 'famed' so-called masters pay very careful, detailed attention to mould their credentials - understandably so, since their motive is to ride the money-train while the coals are still smoldering !!

 

In Asia, the approach is very direct and simple. Lots of groups practice in parks, athletic fields, even rooftops of apartment buildings, and anyone is welcomed to participate, learn and share progress. Very informal relationships are formed between teacher and students, and there are no 'catches' anywhere. Best of all, its free!

 

I guess different mindsets expect different things, so i guess the western masters cannot be held to account for demanding steep fees since those that seek them out almost expect to pay enough, and then some, almost as if the idea is that the more they pay the more benefits can be accrued.

 

Boggles the mind sometimes.

 

Not my experience. Top masters in China charge top money, adjusted for the overall standard-of-living there vs. here. And the highest-level ones may not be available to the general public at any buying price at all for any purposes, since the rich and powerful may (and do) keep them to serve them exclusively. The ones who practice for free in the parks, etc., are of course enthusiasts, but hardly masters. Masters of a high level simply have no time, incentive, interest in doing beginners favors in the park on a regular ongoing basis, year in and year out. They are, typically, exceptionally busy individuals. So, those who charge to teach, gotta make a living this way, if they didn't charge to teach, they'd charge to fix your sink or something, masters have to eat and feed their families and sometimes teachers. (I know two, in China, who supported their elderly teachers for as long as the latter lived. One of them still does. The other one started practicing TCM specifically to earn money to take care of his very old teacher who had no family. )

 

I too catch myself idealizing the good old charitable Asian ways from time to time... as though such a thing ever existed in any pristine purity... China has been civilized for thousands of years longer than the West, and no one in Asia is a stranger to money. However, I would agree that it is much more widespread there than here for a bunch of enthusiasts to just get together for free and practice whatever they love without anybody charging anybody anything. Here, I had to give up on the Kunlun "meetup," e.g., because all of a sudden it's a paid service! "Kunlun lessons!" Started out as just a bunch of practitioners getting together in the park, lasted without fiscal implications for, like, a month... Americans tend to charge for everything that moves whenever they can, and most won't lift a finger for free. Asian masters here aren't gonna be the only ones left out in the cold in this climate, are they? Why should they be stupider -- and poorer -- than the average Joe? I always HATE paying for every trifle that normal human interactions should be providing free of charge (if there was such a thing still left), but I do not begrudge any master I ever paid for teachings even a dime. They worked hard all their lives to earn my money -- since age 6!!! And if I didn't pay, chances are I wouldn't practice, I'm a slacker deep inside and need all the nudges I can get to get things done... including this one.

[Lao Tzu]

Not my experience. Top masters in China charge top money,

I think they are not top masters, they are good cheaters.

[orb]

Actually Chunyi Lin says Lao Tzu touched his head.

Wait Lao Tzu... why did you touch Chunyi Lin's head?

Edited December 30, 2011 by orb

[Lao Tzu]

Wait ... why did you touch Chunyi Lin's head?

This Lao Tzu is not that Lao Tzu

[orb]

This Lao Tzu is not that Lao Tzu

 

Why not?

[The Way Is Virtue]

His hands are very thick and calloused as could be expected from chronic exposure. He is a scam, he refuses to demo his abilities without water and tinfoil.

I don't think sodium hydroxide forms callouses. It would tend to eat them away however. I have seen a close up shot of Zhou Ting Jue's palms in one of the videos on him and his hands looked pretty ordinary, at least what showed in the video anyway. I am still not convinced about the theory about him using sodium hydroxide, for the reasons I mentioned previously. It sounds like it could just be a caustic lye.

 

BTW, when you put a solution of sodium hydroxide and water and aluminum foil together, it tends to bubble and sizzle away and eat all the aluminum foil away. So, if sodium hydroxide is used, it would likely be bubbling and sizzling and very likely eating away the aluminum foil. I suppose it may be possible that if someone were to carefully mix a very weak solution of sodium hydroxide and water to just the right weak percentage and put that on aluminum foil that it might produce heat without noticeably bubbling and sizzling too much, and may not eat too much of the aluminum foil away too quickly, but I wouldn't know without doing some experimentation first. It might not work that way at all. Normally it looks something like this:

It is not a mixture I would want to be touching with my hands anyway.

 

P.S. This video shows a segment in which Zhou Ting Jue is heating up what they say is just a rolled up dampened towel in his hands (no mention of aluminum in the rolled up towel):

This video (starting at around 3:21) shows a doctor testing Zhou Ting Jue's ability to heat a moistened aluminum foil pad in his doctor's office. They don't mention in this short video clip what steps the doctor took to make sure Zhou Ting Jue didn't tamper with the aluminum foil pad or water, but presumably if you are going to the trouble to formally test someone you would be smart enough to make sure they weren't given the opportunity to tamper with the items being tested. I can't say that the doctor in this video did take those precautions for certain, but I would have to wonder about the point of doing the test if such obvious precautions were not taken:

 

I am well aware that videos are not proof of anything, but also someone simply claiming that they think Zhou Ting Jue is using sodium hydroxide is not proof of anything either, especially when that explanation doesn't seem to hold up too well when examined more closely. Zhou Ting Jue may be using some tricks, but if he is I think it is certainly not proven yet, is all that I saying. Also, Zhou Ting Jue really does appear to be someone who may have some real qigong skill. If he is just a trickster, he is a very good one, IMO.

Edited December 30, 2011 by The Way Is Virtue

[Lao Tzu]

Why not?

Because I know I am not the sage LaoZi.

[Aetherous]

If they are really wrong, my pointing out the mistake should be the primary teaching.

 

If you go that route, no one will even consider you.

 

Think about if no one here knew anything about the Tao...how would you start teaching them? Totally clueless people who haven't been taught incorrectly yet.

 

You'd teach them in a productive way, rather than destructive. You wouldn't waste time talking about false ways, you'd talk about the true way. So do that!

 

No one likes to be told their way is wrong. A lot of people here cherish their practices and ideas, and won't give them up simply because some random Chinese person tells them it's wrong.

 

Most of us here have the view already that YOU are the one who is wrong. So prove us wrong, by teaching the true TAO.

[Lao Tzu]

If you go that route, no one will even consider you.

 

Think about if no one here knew anything about the Tao...how would you start teaching them? Totally clueless people who haven't been taught incorrectly yet.

 

You'd teach them in a productive way, rather than destructive. You wouldn't waste time talking about false ways, you'd talk about the true way. So do that!

 

No one likes to be told their way is wrong. A lot of people here cherish their practices and ideas, and won't give them up simply because some random Chinese person tells them it's wrong.

 

Most of us here have the view already that YOU are the one who is wrong. So prove us wrong, by teaching the true TAO.

In the thread, I have told my points by which I said there is something wrong.

And when I teach the true TAO, how can the guys believe my words is true?

So complete proving is almost impossible in a forum.

[Protector]

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who do not believe, no proof is possible."--Stuart Chase

 

Any point can be proven true or false with words or be destroyed completely

Dao can't be explained with words, the explaining begins when there are no words left

As for masters, they are all wise by staying away from the forums

[Aetherous]

In the thread, I have told my points by which I said there is something wrong.

And when I teach the true TAO, how can the guys believe my words is true?

So complete proving is almost impossible in a forum.

 

Well maybe no one will believe...but it's more productive than talking about nothing and telling everyone how wrong they are.

[Birch]

But a bit of proving ought to be good enough

 

I don't think you need to prove anything to the newly arrived. However, you may consider it worthwhile to do so to some other people on here.

I believe several of them them know what they're looking at when they see it.

[Lao Tzu]

Well maybe no one will believe...but it's more productive than talking about nothing and telling everyone how wrong they are.

But... that is not true. I HAVE given something, not nothing.

[Lao Tzu]

But a bit of proving ought to be good enough

 

I don't think you need to prove anything to the newly arrived. However, you may consider it worthwhile to do so to some other people on here.

I believe several of them them know what they're looking at when they see it.

That is what I did.

[Aetherous]

[Birch]

So why bother telling me?

[Lao Tzu]

So why bother telling me?

Are you talking to me?

[Protector]

But... that is not true. I HAVE given something, not nothing.

 

This might be the first time I missed a post that is at least 300 words long, I might need new glasses

But know what, doesn't matter. Back on topic, I wonder if you could find one of the previously discussed masters put you back in your place. You seem to be lacking in something, can't put my finger on it.

[Lao Tzu]

This might be the first time I missed a post that is at least 300 words long, I might need new glasses

But know what, doesn't matter. Back on topic, I wonder if you could find one of the previously discussed masters put you back in your place. You seem to be lacking in something, can't put my finger on it.

Sorry, I do not understand your this text very well.

[Protector]

Let's keep it simple then.

You think most of the masters out there are fake and do everything for money.

So you want everyone to learn only from sages and warn about the fake masters, right?

 

Let's try out your methods on me, if you can't get past me, you wont even be able to make it past anyone else

 

Sounds fun?

[Taomeow]

I think they are not top masters, they are good cheaters.

 

And I think you need to stop trolling.

[kundalini]

name comes to mind

 

Anthony Korahais. just google it. my opinion best for health.

Edited March 3, 2012 by kundalini

[C T]

Not my experience. Top masters in China charge top money, adjusted for the overall standard-of-living there vs. here. And the highest-level ones may not be available to the general public at any buying price at all for any purposes, since the rich and powerful may (and do) keep them to serve them exclusively. The ones who practice for free in the parks, etc., are of course enthusiasts, but hardly masters. Masters of a high level simply have no time, incentive, interest in doing beginners favors in the park on a regular ongoing basis, year in and year out. They are, typically, exceptionally busy individuals. So, those who charge to teach, gotta make a living this way, if they didn't charge to teach, they'd charge to fix your sink or something, masters have to eat and feed their families and sometimes teachers. (I know two, in China, who supported their elderly teachers for as long as the latter lived. One of them still does. The other one started practicing TCM specifically to earn money to take care of his very old teacher who had no family. )

 

I too catch myself idealizing the good old charitable Asian ways from time to time... as though such a thing ever existed in any pristine purity... China has been civilized for thousands of years longer than the West, and no one in Asia is a stranger to money. However, I would agree that it is much more widespread there than here for a bunch of enthusiasts to just get together for free and practice whatever they love without anybody charging anybody anything. Here, I had to give up on the Kunlun "meetup," e.g., because all of a sudden it's a paid service! "Kunlun lessons!" Started out as just a bunch of practitioners getting together in the park, lasted without fiscal implications for, like, a month... Americans tend to charge for everything that moves whenever they can, and most won't lift a finger for free. Asian masters here aren't gonna be the only ones left out in the cold in this climate, are they? Why should they be stupider -- and poorer -- than the average Joe? I always HATE paying for every trifle that normal human interactions should be providing free of charge (if there was such a thing still left), but I do not begrudge any master I ever paid for teachings even a dime. They worked hard all their lives to earn my money -- since age 6!!! And if I didn't pay, chances are I wouldn't practice, I'm a slacker deep inside and need all the nudges I can get to get things done... including this one.

Yeah, the charitable ways of old is what has gone missing. Unlike you, i do not secretly cherish any idealistic notion that such ways will ever return, not in my lifetime anyways.

 

North, South, East and West... money talks, and in most cases, the louder it screams, the more attention it attracts? Which is why sometimes what most people pay for, unfortunately, is a bunch of useless floss, for example, what could be learned in 6 sessions are stretched out to 6 levels, with each level consisting of 6 sessions, and when that is done, there is always the advanced levels, then the masters levels, then the grand-masters level, and on it goes. Please do not deny that this is happening in a major way in relation to learning the very simple art of chigung (in the West). In itself, there is really nothing very complex to the practice, is there? But like all intelligent societies, when something simple can be recreated into something more complex, it becomes a business opportunity. So in a way, the OP is right... it is a form of cheating. But if people band together and accept that that is the norm, that money have to be paid in order to promptly get off one's bum and put in the effort due to having forked out some hard-earned dosh for it, then that is exactly what becomes formatted. So, the cheating becomes less glaring at the start, and eventually it becomes accepted as a norm, and no longer can it be labelled as cheating. Its justified, in the name of prosperity - not wanting to take advantage of this will then be construed as fear of being frowned upon and stigmatized as a stupid Joe or chanky chang who knows nought how to milk the fat cow for every drop its got.

 

Funny thing is, free and authentic (as compared to expensive and authentic) systems are still available for those who want to ascend to the very top in terms of cultivating the energetic arts, but then most people here (or anywhere) do not have the time nor the inclination nor the patience to faithfully serve one master for years just to pass the stage of novice shoe carrier so that they can move to the next stage of tea maker and so on.

 

Nowadays, speed matters, and for that, peeps better make some fast money to get some fast results.

 

Basic stuff jazzed up to look more attractive to milk those who have, so that the jazzers can also have some of the milk is plain

w r o n g.

 

Charge by all means, but at least have the courtesy to be truthful.

[Lao Tzu]

And I think you need to stop trolling.

Why do you say this?