Can someone tell me the names of Qigong masters in America?

[Lao Tzu]

Wait, so first its qigong masters now qingong (lightness art)?

 

Please can you inform us of some false Qigong/qingong masters that you've studied with? You can't continue to generalise and say everyone is fake when that's obviously not the case.

Sorry, wrong typing. It is Qigong.

I never study with any Qigong masters. But I can tell whether he is a cheater based on my knowledge from the books.

[konchog uma]

Sorry, wrong typing. It is Qigong.

I never study with any Qigong masters. But I can tell whether he is a cheater based on my knowledge from the books.

 

you can't tell qigong teachers internal level of skill from reading books!! it takes years of experience to size someone up without actually working with them or becoming their student.

 

I'm not saying there aren't frauds out there but saying the all qigong masters in china are so seems a little um... extreme, to put it nicely.

 

you don't seem very openminded to the opinions of others, so im not going to say more.

[Lao Tzu]

you can't tell qigong teachers internal level of skill from reading books!! it takes years of experience to size someone up without actually working with them or becoming their student.

 

I'm not saying there aren't frauds out there but saying the all qigong masters in china are so seems a little um... extreme, to put it nicely.

 

you don't seem very openminded to the opinions of others, so im not going to say more.

I think I am an extremely openminded person. You think me not only because I disagree someone's opinions?

You know why I can tell it from reading books? Because by reading books, I can know what a sage looks like and what the Dao is like. So when a so-called master said something or did something which is conflict with Dao, I can draw a conclusion that he is not a good teacher.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Lao Tzu

[Protector]

I think I am an extremely openminded person. You think me not only because I disagree someone's opinions?

You know why I can tell it from reading books? Because by reading books, I can know what a sage looks like and what the Dao is like. So when a so-called master said something or did something which is conflict with Dao, I can draw a conclusion that he is not a good teacher.

 

That's where the problem begins. The best teachers are the ones who are outside of expectations. Everyone seems to have an idea that a master is this nice old guy who just teaches for free because he is so nice. Then, when you actually meet him, he's like a devil .

[konchog uma]

I think I am an extremely openminded person. You think me not only because I disagree someone's opinions?

You know why I can tell it from reading books? Because by reading books, I can know what a sage looks like and what the Dao is like. So when a so-called master said something or did something which is conflict with Dao, I can draw a conclusion that he is not a good teacher.

 

nothing is "in conflict with dao" everything arises from dao and returns to dao, and in between, is a manifestation of dao. To the sage who can reflect without grasping or rejecting, all is dao. So maybe it is your mind which creates the idea of "dao" and "not dao" and "conflict with dao" and "against dao". My mind doesn't do that, so i can't relate to what you are talking about. To me, everything is dao, even if i can't see that in the moment, that too is dao.

 

I think you are not openminded because you seem stubbornly set in your ideas. You think you are openminded, but you also seem to think you know it all better than the rest of us, without any basis except that you have read many books in your native language. The dao isn't in books. The way that can be spoken is not the true way. So you definitely don't know what the dao is like by reading books. One can look outside and see what the dao is like, or can observe cycles keenly to see what the dao is like, or as a sage said, one can know the way by staying home with the windows and door shut (thats a metaphor for meditation).

 

Finally, a person can do something that is "in conflict with dao" and still be a good teacher. They can have achieved a high level of qigong mastery, and have a lot to impart to a student who hasn't already closed his ears and heart, without achieving the highest levels of spiritual purity. One of my teachers used to kill people for a living, but he's still a master internalist. I am grateful for what he has shown me, and i practice every day.

 

Taking what you can get, opportunism, pragmatism, thats dao. Perfectionism... ummm no. Perfection doesn't exist, so thinking that you are somehow on to a superior method because you maintain an unrealistically high standard of perfection might not get you as far as you think. Or you can wait around casually doing nothing until an immortal decides for no reason at all to take their time and teach you. Or maybe a sage will stumble upon you one day and decide that even though you don't cultivate yourself with meditation that they will teach you anyway.

[konchog uma]

That's where the problem begins. The best teachers are the ones who are outside of expectations. Everyone seems to have an idea that a master is this nice old guy who just teaches for free because he is so nice. Then, when you actually meet him, he's like a devil .

 

exactly

[Lao Tzu]

nothing is "in conflict with dao" everything arises from dao and returns to dao, and in between, is a manifestation of dao. To the sage who can reflect without grasping or rejecting, all is dao. So maybe it is your mind which creates the idea of "dao" and "not dao" and "conflict with dao" and "against dao". My mind doesn't do that, so i can't relate to what you are talking about. To me, everything is dao, even if i can't see that in the moment, that too is dao.

 

I think you are not openminded because you seem stubbornly set in your ideas. You think you are openminded, but you also seem to think you know it all better than the rest of us, without any basis except that you have read many books in your native language. The dao isn't in books. The way that can be spoken is not the true way. So you definitely don't know what the dao is like by reading books. One can look outside and see what the dao is like, or can observe cycles keenly to see what the dao is like, or as a sage said, one can know the way by staying home with the windows and door shut (thats a metaphor for meditation).

 

Finally, a person can do something that is "in conflict with dao" and still be a good teacher. They can have achieved a high level of qigong mastery, and have a lot to impart to a student who hasn't already closed his ears and heart, without achieving the highest levels of spiritual purity. One of my teachers used to kill people for a living, but he's still a master internalist. I am grateful for what he has shown me, and i practice every day.

 

Taking what you can get, opportunism, pragmatism, thats dao. Perfectionism... ummm no. Perfection doesn't exist, so thinking that you are somehow on to a superior method because you maintain an unrealistically high standard of perfection might not get you as far as you think. Or you can wait around casually doing nothing until an immortal decides for no reason at all to take their time and teach you. Or maybe a sage will stumble upon you one day and decide that even though you don't cultivate yourself with meditation that they will teach you anyway.

Everything is Dao, doesn't mean everything you did is right.

You are confused here.

[Lao Tzu]

I have to go to bed. Discuss later.

[konchog uma]

Everything is Dao, doesn't mean everything you did is right.

You are confused here.

 

i never claimed that everything i did was right. ???

[Birch]

Yet I agree with Lao Tzu in these other "trolling" topics but you all ignore me and go after him

How did you develop such a personal grudge so fast, guys?

Er, because you're more fun:-)?

 

No, seriously, I figure it's to do with longevity on the board. LT just turned up and started insulting folks whereas to do so properly requires that folks get to know each other for proper insulting, otherwise they feel insulted.

 

Great book = Opening the Dragon Gate.

[Lao Tzu]

i never claimed that everything i did was right. ???

"nothing is "in conflict with dao" everything arises from dao and returns to dao, and in between, is a manifestation of dao. To the sage who can reflect without grasping or rejecting, all is dao. So maybe it is your mind which creates the idea of "dao" and "not dao" and "conflict with dao" and "against dao". My mind doesn't do that, so i can't relate to what you are talking about. To me, everything is dao, even if i can't see that in the moment, that too is dao."

 

In the text above, you said everything is Dao, so I think you mean "active meditation or a Qigong master is Dao as well, so I can not say it is wrong". right?

[konchog uma]

"nothing is "in conflict with dao" everything arises from dao and returns to dao, and in between, is a manifestation of dao. To the sage who can reflect without grasping or rejecting, all is dao. So maybe it is your mind which creates the idea of "dao" and "not dao" and "conflict with dao" and "against dao". My mind doesn't do that, so i can't relate to what you are talking about. To me, everything is dao, even if i can't see that in the moment, that too is dao."

 

In the text above, you said everything is Dao, so I think you mean "active meditation or a Qigong master is Dao as well, so I can not say it is wrong". right?

 

well thats an extrapolation, but i guess it's not a completely off-the-wall one.

 

My point was that i don't really create the idea of "against dao". Whether you meditate or not, or practice qigong or not, or understand or not, that is dao. Dao is dao. Only the human mind, after the fact, creates the illusory distinctions like "against dao" or "contrary to dao". And even that phenomenon is part of dao. So in other words, i agree with the people that say that there is more than one right way to do things. Some ways are right for some people, other ways for other people. There is no single best way for everyone. People are too diverse for that sort of idea to be true.

 

If you had said "i dont really like to meditate and i connect with the way through non-action" it would be one thing, but you said "meditation is not a good way to practice". Or if you had said "i suspect many qigong teachers are frauds" instead of "every teacher in china is a cheater", i think your ideas would be received better. Its hard to deal in absolute statements when talking about nebulous concepts like the way, and cultivating vitality. Those things are such broad topics that it is very difficult to make any statement about them that covers the entire subject.

[Lao Tzu]

well thats an extrapolation, but i guess it's not a completely off-the-wall one.

 

My point was that i don't really create the idea of "against dao". Whether you meditate or not, or practice qigong or not, or understand or not, that is dao. Dao is dao. Only the human mind, after the fact, creates the illusory distinctions like "against dao" or "contrary to dao". And even that phenomenon is part of dao. So in other words, i agree with the people that say that there is more than one right way to do things. Some ways are right for some people, other ways for other people. There is no single best way for everyone. People are too diverse for that sort of idea to be true.

If you think everything is not "against Dao", doesn't it mean that everything is right? If it doesn't mean that and there is something wrong, I think we can say "something is against Dao"

 

If you had said "i dont really like to meditate and i connect with the way through non-action" it would be one thing, but you said "meditation is not a good way to practice". Or if you had said "i suspect many qigong teachers are frauds" instead of "every teacher in china is a cheater", i think your ideas would be received better. Its hard to deal in absolute statements when talking about nebulous concepts like the way, and cultivating vitality. Those things are such broad topics that it is very difficult to make any statement about them that covers the entire subject.

I think "meditation is not a good way to practice", but I can not say that?

I didn't say "every teacher in china is a cheater", I said the top Qigong masters are top cheaters. You don't know China well, it is true. Real Qigong teachers don't want money so eagerly, so they did less effort to advertise. But the Qigong cheaters do, so they always are "famous". And the cheaters like to use some fictional false Qigong theory to deceive the Qigong fans, and the "theory" is really "attactive".

[dawei]

If you think everything is not "against Dao", doesn't it mean that everything is right? If it doesn't mean that and there is something wrong, I think we can say "something is against Dao"

I prefer to state it as we are always 'connected' but not always at 'full capacity' (or potential). Like a circuit which has resistance, we present varying degrees of resistance internally and externally.

[konchog uma]

If you think everything is not "against Dao", doesn't it mean that everything is right? If it doesn't mean that and there is something wrong, I think we can say "something is against Dao"

 

it doesn't mean that everything is "right" or "wrong", the mind of dao doesn't make those distinctions. I am not talking about right and wrong. The mind of a sage just accepts everything without creating dualistic distinctions like that around things. So you might think that you can say "something is against Dao" but i guess that means we will just have a fundamental disagreement between us. Which is fine. Just a matter of philosophy, which is ultimately semantic.

 

I think "meditation is not a good way to practice", but I can not say that?

I didn't say "every teacher in china is a cheater", I said the top Qigong masters are top cheaters. You don't know China well, it is true. Real Qigong teachers don't want money so eagerly, so they did less effort to advertise. But the Qigong cheaters do, so they always are "famous". And the cheaters like to use some fictional false Qigong theory to deceive the Qigong fans, and the "theory" is really "attactive".

 

I got the impression that you thought that there were no qigong masters in the world, that they were all cheaters. Excuse me for misunderstanding you.

[Lao Tzu]

I prefer to state it as we are always 'connected' but not always at 'full capacity' (or potential). Like a circuit which has resistance, we present varying degrees of resistance internally and externally.

 

I prefer to state it as we are always getting off the right(natural) way of Dao, and stepping on a wrong way which leads to death.

[dawei]

I prefer to state it as we are always getting off the right(natural) way of Dao, and stepping on a wrong way which leads to death.

I don't like this way of saying it because both creation and destruction can be natural. maybe if you said, leads to premature death (or an earlier death) I might agree more but death itself is natural... we're simply on the return trip.

[Lao Tzu]

I don't like this way of saying it because both creation and destruction can be natural. maybe if you said, leads to premature death (or an earlier death) I might agree more but death itself is natural... we're simply on the return trip.

If we live in Dao, we will not die. That is called immortals.

You think death is natural, right, but this natural is not that natural.

Why people could turn old and die? Daoism had told us the reason long long ago.

[dawei]

If we live in Dao, we will not die. That is called immortals.

You think death is natural, right, but this natural is not that natural.

Why people could turn old and die? Daoism had told us the reason long long ago.

I don't believe the meaning of immortal is that one's physical body does not die; otherwise we would see these immortals walking around today.

[Protector]

I don't believe the meaning of immortal is that one's physical body does not die; otherwise we would see these immortals walking around today.

 

There's a bunch actually, but they kinda give up later on because their friends with normal people and it's kinda sad

In my book, immortal is someone who can decide when to die

[konchog uma]

There's a bunch actually, but they kinda give up later on because their friends with normal people and it's kinda sad

In my book, immortal is someone who can decide when to die

 

right. And then after death s/he lives on as a spiritual immortal.

 

So some immortals live 256 years, some live 56 and decide to pop out the top of their head and not come back. There's no telling. Immortals who never actually "die" is something I have only heard about in stories. I have heard of people living thousands of years, but eventually when the spirit is strong enough its better to be a spirit without a body because then you can fly and its more comfortable than having flesh and the mind can be freer and there isn't daily maintainance like when you're in a human body. So most people move on eventually form what i have learned.

 

It is not natural to resist change.

[dawei]

I am not disagreeing with you guys... but LZ is not explaining himself enough in many cases. I am looking to get more out of his explanation of "to not die" when he shows that there is a reason we die.

[Lao Tzu]

I don't believe the meaning of immortal is that one's physical body does not die; otherwise we would see these immortals walking around today.

I am not sure, maybe physical, maybe spiritual. But anyway, for an immortal, there should be something not die, right?

[Aetherous]

otherwise we would see these immortals walking around today.

 

Maybe we do see them and just don't notice.

[dawei]

I am not sure, maybe physical, maybe spiritual. But anyway, for an immortal, there should be something not die, right?

Yes, that I agree with. Thanks.