Grand Master Wang Liping Ten day Private Intensive

[YMWong]

...

Edited January 24, 2012 by YMWong

[YMWong]

Well this instruction is "how to train yourself". If you are already trained then i don't think you need to live as a beggar, doesn't exactly give you a means to spread the teachings.

 

"One of the most prominent traits of the early Quanzhen school was its ascetism. Hagiographic sources and personal testimonies indicate that all of the early Quanzhen masters lived austere lives and underwent periods of intense self-denial. Throughout their lives they followed the ideal of 'pure poverty' (qingpin) and relied on begging as their primary means of sustenance. "

 

http://imageshack.us/g/824/001dmxg.jpg/

 

 

 

 

YM

Edited January 24, 2012 by YMWong

[Ken]

I am curious what's the point you are trying to make here ?

 

"One of the most prominent traits of the early Quanzhen school was its ascetism. Hagiographic sources and personal testimonies indicate that all of the early Quanzhen masters lived austere lives and underwent periods of intense self-denial. Throughout their lives they followed the ideal of 'pure poverty' (qingpin) and relied on begging as their primary means of sustenance. "

 

 

YM

[Protector]

Asceticism is a sort of energy practice where you deny yourself things your body and mind desires in order to create resistance for accumulation of chi in each individual chakra. Example, fasting charges up the stomach and abstinence is practiced almost by everyone. A lot of progress can be done with that stuff and is very popular even in Christianity.

 

All that money stuff is not important, the master is important. He can give any number he wants but it depends on him if anyone will pay it. Also the student must practice the practice after paying it. Imagine you got a 'thing' for 20$ from some funky looking dude online, the guy doesn't even have a good image and it doesn't look like what he teaches is important since he practices the thing and he is still like this. If you want to practice something very powerful, then you need a master to show you that he is also powerful from practicing the thing. Speaking of that, I hate half-assed websites.

 

Also think about for who the system is made. There are a whole bunch of new age college punks who think they are going to go to Tibet or something and reach enlightenment just because they can. There are also middle aged people who worked their whole lives on living comfortably and now that they are happy and have free time, they start to notice the rest of the world around them and they get curious about it. They are getting old and the pursuit of knowledge and spiritual is the only thing that's left. It's easy for them to afford this sort of thing at this stage.

They already know a lot at this point. Money even changes meaning, before, a thousand was an impossible number since as a teenager they would need to flip burgers forever to afford a class about sitting down and doing nothing, forget that. Now a thousand is just a matter of time and work.

 

These old men by then are halfway there and just need a little reminder about what they know since they already lived for a while and learned quite enough to reach the place where they are. This can also be a kind of asceticism, like when you don't let stomach chi get away by stopping being hungry, you just don't let money get away. With enough money you build a comfortable place for your heart and when that's done, money looses value. When money is worthless survival is taken care of, you can study whatever you want. After studying, the collected knowledge becomes wisdom. Some of these old rich people don't even need to meditate, they spend that money to come back to college and if there's something left behind, they buy something that remind them of their childhood.

 

So long story short, if you still think you can't afford it, it's not for you.

[ChiDragon]

Well this instruction is "how to train yourself". If you are already trained then i don't think you need to live as a beggar, doesn't exactly give you a means to spread the teachings.

 

Where does it say one has to be a beggar...???

 

或問曰。如何是修真妙理。

 

答曰。第一先除無名煩惱。第二休貪戀酒色財氣。此者。便是修行之法。夫人之一身。皆具天地之理。天地所以含養萬物。萬物所以盈天地間。

 

It says in bold:

First, you have to get rid of the unknown vexation. Second, don't be greedy with the materialistic world: drinking, sex, and wealth.

[konchog uma]

Where does it say one has to be a beggar...???

 

It says in bold:

First, you have to get rid of the unknown vexation. Second, don't be greedy with the materialistic world: drinking, sex, and wealth.

 

that makes a lot more sense. There's a big difference between not being greedy and giving up money.

[YMWong]

I am curious what's the point you are trying to make here ?

 

I was replying to Ish, as you can see from my quote above, similarly to what you replied to the "200 y.o. master" allegation

 

YM

[YMWong]

that makes a lot more sense. There's a big difference between not being greedy and giving up money.

 

My friend,

 

one can certainly try to twist words in order to try and make them fit their wishful thinking but that doesn't change the facts. The early Quanzhen masters were ALL beggars and were required to give up their wealth, in case they had it, as been extremely poor and begging was one of the MUST in their Way of attaining sainthood.

So extreme poverty was a requirements to be pursued THROUGHOUT their lives, it suffices to go through the works of Quanzhen founder, of his first line disciples and the many second generations to find concrete evidence to put the words into correct perspective.

 

Best

 

YM

[Protector]

That's just awful

[YMWong]

[Protector]

Know what, I think the early Quanzhen masters got their teachings from somewhere else and it took them a long time to figure out what begging actually meant

[宁]

All daoist teachers teach for free, but they do not teach "the public" and instead only pass the tradition to the few who have the destiny (緣分) to receive it.

 

So you will hardly read about them on the web

 

YM

 

IME this is true.

 

I don't know what were the original reasons for banning the making of profit from exploitation of daoist tradition, but i can think of a few, also with regards to destiny (yuan fen) playing the major part in choosing who teaches who/what:

 

(also it is something that i've found in past studies of many other traditions. usually the teacher met the student via a certain set of events - that usually influenced the further development of the teacher/student interaction.)

 

- the student doesn't play the major role in choosing the master or the teaching, he's not a client

this impedes the influence of expectations; many of which are responsible for wasting alot of time, from both the student's and the teacher's part. many of us are not meant to be involved into these kind of things, yet are stubbornly insisting, thereby neglecting other more important (and REAL) issues of their life/destiny

- the master doesn't play the major role in choosing the student, he's not a businessman

this impedes the corruption of the moral character, corruption of the teaching and corruption of the tradition.

someone once said rough quote: 'once upon a time, the master was master, and the student was student. since payment became an integral part of their interaction, nowadays, the master is the student, and the student is the master' - meaning that the master has to rise to the student's expectations, after all, he paid....

 

L1

Edited January 25, 2012 by Little1

[au2o3]

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Edited January 26, 2012 by au2o3

[Empty Cloud]

I have one apprehension about Grandmaster Wang Liping and the Dragon Gate sect training and perhaps some of the current practitioners can clarify this for me. What is the point of attracting snakes, rats and other rodents by one's meditation and further more to cultivate with them to acquire certin abilities? What are the chances and risks that this could lead to demonic possesion by an animal, feeding off of your vitality in exchange for abilities? . . . Bums.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I'm no practicioner, but in the philosophical sense, i tend to find more animals to be pure beings, and incorruptible. not all, im sure, but i enver met a creature other than the human being who showed signs of corruption.

 

I think that sharing energy is a great thing, regardless of what malintentions a being might have, i believe that you are doing a divine work by sharing your energies with anyone. I doubt the liklihood of being possessed, if one's practice(s) cultivate a strong mind and spirit.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

All daoist teachers teach for free, but they do not teach "the public" and instead only pass the tradition to the few who have the destiny (緣分) to receive it.

 

So you will hardly read about them on the web

 

YM

 

 

What is the liklihood of meeting one in, say, the united states?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Ish]

I personally don't see how we can be absolutely concrete about these things - in this case money for the teaching.

Times change and what is required of students may also change... who's to say it isn't destiny that a student decides to pay and therefore receives the teaching, after that it's up to them and their own will to train as well as they can.

 

I'm not, and can't, say it's right to charge such an amount but I also don't think it's correct to close yourself off because of changing conditions.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

... how we can be absolutely concrete about these things - in this case money for the teaching...

 

I'm not, and can't, say it's right to charge such an amount but I also don't think it's correct to close yourself off because of changing conditions.

 

 

True enough, but destiny isnt a concrete and tangible thing either. it goes all sorts of ways.

 

 

Just because a person interested in learning has no means of immediate payment does not mean they are necessarily closing themselves off to doing so, in the event. In all likelihood, a true pursuit would honor their teacher in whatever way is managable. Weather time, money, gift, or food is the payment, the true student would not hesitate to find something to offer.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Hot Nirvana Judo Trend

[Mokona]

Empty Cloud,

 

I had the pleasure of contacting and old animal spirit in the past. I felt it roar within my soul! It was amazing. I can happily report that no possesion happened.

[konchog uma]

My friend,

 

one can certainly try to twist words in order to try and make them fit their wishful thinking but that doesn't change the facts. The early Quanzhen masters were ALL beggars and were required to give up their wealth, in case they had it, as been extremely poor and begging was one of the MUST in their Way of attaining sainthood.

So extreme poverty was a requirements to be pursued THROUGHOUT their lives, it suffices to go through the works of Quanzhen founder, of his first line disciples and the many second generations to find concrete evidence to put the words into correct perspective.

 

Best

 

YM

 

Thanks for clarifying that for us. It reminds me of jesus saying that it was easier for a camel to fit through a needle eye than a rich person to ascend to heaven.

 

I didn't mean to twists words, I was just not familiar with that aspect of daoism. And personally, i tend to think that it is more virtuous to provide a service in return for your keep than to beg for it, but thats just an attitude that i carry, im not saying its correct or anything.

 

again, thanks

[Protector]

I once had unintentional out of body experience, then a very old very furry very angry looking cat dragged me back into my body then went into my cat picture on the wall

I usually push against that picture during horse stance, dunno what's that all about

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

It's about your obsession with felines.

[YMWong]

Thanks for clarifying that for us. It reminds me of jesus saying that it was easier for a camel to fit through a needle eye than a rich person to ascend to heaven.

 

I didn't mean to twists words, I was just not familiar with that aspect of daoism. And personally, i tend to think that it is more virtuous to provide a service in return for your keep than to beg for it, but thats just an attitude that i carry, im not saying its correct or anything.

 

The begging requirement is not "an aspect of Daoism" but a requirement in certain sects, in particular the early Quanzhen and derivated like Longmen.

Every school has its methods to attain its goals and, all long Chinese history, there has been quite a debate between schools that considered themselves "orthodox" against what they perceived as "unorthodox".

 

So there is not a ''single way" but many ways, each one with its characteristics and methods.

 

It suffices to find one which has produced good results/masters and follow it's requirements.

 

YM

[Birch]

I was thinking about this sort of thing this morning. To get where the world exists to serve you and your purposes - and not the other way around (where you serve the world's purposes). What is valued is not always what is paid for. In fact, I'd throw it a contrary line and suggest that what is paid for is to keep value away and down.

 

---random opinion alert----

[Kronos]

That's interesting, is the fire released for safety or maybe alchemical purposes?

 

When you speak of reaching level 1 in that short time, did the students already have a foundation or were mainly beginners?

 

It's safety: There are different forms of energy you should first learn to differentiate.

 

I never saw someone without foundation reaching something in a few days. Most people I've met at seminars had already years of training in other methods. The most impressive guy was doing Zen and Yoga for several years, he opened his SHO after 7 days with Qin Ling. There was also an other guy, he was a student of Verdesi and trained the basic method for 3 years. He opened his SHO on his first seminar in the evening of the 8th day with Master Wang. There was also a acupuncturist who opened his SHO at his first seminar, I'm not sure for how long he was meditating before and what system.

The foundation is very importand. In my opinion it does not really matter what system you do: just be able to MEDITATE for 1-2 hours without moving your legs nor having too much thoughts. Best would be to learn the basic breathing methods of our school, train for 2 years, every day at least 1-2 hours the sitting meditation, as often as you can the Ping Heng Gong and walking and every evening the Shui Gong, then go to a seminar with Master Wang. After the seminar train for several years again and go to see Master Wang again when you're ready for it - you will know when you're ready. If you don't train seriously you've learned enough for a lifetime at the first seminar.