Master Waysun Liao

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[dwai]

I've seen many videos of the form by various teachers under Waysun. If you read my original post, I was simply bringing up a topic that has circulated here and on other boards before.

 

And yet with several defenders of the style posting here no one has bothered to answer the question. How is it that the "Temple Style Long Form", which supposedly preceded all other tai chi forms, follows the same routine as some of the Yang family variations when we know that Yang Luchan only studied tai chi with the Chen's, and his form developed from that experience?

 

There is significant research into the history of tai chi, and many published histories, and lineages. I have yet to see any scholar or author mention Temple Tai Chi in their research...

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The long form is secondary to the single forms. I haven't seen any family teach the single forms. Like I mentioned the long form is used to verify that we can take the feeling of qi as experienced in the single forms and carry it through the transitions.

That being said, the long form is closer to the CMC long form than yang style. We in fact don't even follow the sequence of the long form after a certain level of maturity in practice. The forms just are what they are meant to be, as the energy makes it happen.

 

Does that answer your question? As far as temple style - the label is concerned, it is because that's how master liao learnt it in a Taoist temple in his youth.

it is upto us to either believe or disbelieve his words. There are many malicious intentions that led people to cast aspersions on master liao over the years, with some idiots even claiming BK Frantzis claimed that master Liao was white crane guy and not tai chi at all. bkF has personally acknowledged master Liao and his tai chi classics book as one of his continual reference materials and that shut down those lies soon after.

Edited January 29, 2015 by dwai

[henro]

I think so. If I'm reading you correctly, Waysun teaches single forms or postures as a form of meditation to affect alchemical process, and to work with energy.

 

The long form he uses is really just a container for these postures. That's why it might closely resemble Yang style. The long form could be almost any form once you've got the single forms.

 

This was all learned at a daoist temple in his youth.

 

Does that sound right?

[dwai]

I think so. If I'm reading you correctly, Waysun teaches single forms or postures as a form of meditation to affect alchemical process, and to work with energy.

 

The long form he uses is really just a container for these postures. That's why it might closely resemble Yang style. The long form could be almost any form once you've got the single forms.

 

This was all learned at a daoist temple in his youth.

 

Does that sound right?

Yes that sounds about right. But only correction is that the single forms are not postures. They embody the 8 energies and 5 directions of tai chi. We do practice holding these forms in various postures but there are specific Taoist meditations that are part of the training that have far more details and nuances. Temple style is not just forms but goes way way deeper than that.

[henro]

I tried to find a bio, does anyone know what temple he learned these forms in?

[dwai]

I tried to find a bio, does anyone know what temple he learned these forms in?

Why don't you ask him yourself?

[81chapters]

Okay, just to clear things up, Master Liao certainly is still teaching. In addition to a private class for invited senior students and instructors, he is also available for private sessions and can be found at his school in Oak Park on a regular basis almost every evening. You can join or make arrangements to visit the center and most likely meet him. He has been at the same location for 40 years. Stop by sometime, or email them to see if you are able to schedule a private session if you'd like the experience of learning from him directly. 

 

The DVDs are expensive because there are so many of them and the market is so small, so to cover the expense of producing them requires a higher price. It's easy to have just ONE DVD and sell it to hundreds of people at $15. It is much harder to produce and maintain a library of over 200 and make a profit of any kind.

 

The books each give slightly different angles and analogies of Chi, because he and his publishers are trying to appeal and get this teaching out to a variety of audiences, not just a handful of discriminating advanced practitioners. So he relates it to "God" a "force" "energy" all sorts of different analogies to convey concepts to people who may be totally unfamiliar with Chi.  The DVDs have progressively more advanced info not contained in any of the books, and appeal to advanced practitioners. if you have trouble finding the right one, email them with what you'd like to work on in your practice and they will try to help you.

 

IMHO re: "Temple Style." It is  a mistake to classify this as merely just a certain choreography or style of single forms or long form. Dwai is more correct in that it is more a manner of the style of training as a whole, a manner of how to approach the development of energy, as well as the tradition of learning "mouth-to'ear" directly from a master in a temple setting. The long form is rather more of an adjunct to our training, not a definition of the style as a whole. The long form used in his school is reputedly modeled after Cheng Man Ching's long form, as the two masters were friends.

 

I would definitely attend any seminar he holds if you want to meet this master in this lifetime, as his public seminars seem to be less frequent now. There is one in Wisconsin, not far from Chicago/Milwaukee

 

Being at his Center pretty much 7 days a week and being a student there for 16 years, it is always amusing to see lengthy threads comparing rumors and opinions about him from those who barely know or have never met him. No harm done. It is the nature of the Internet.

 

Not here to answer any questions. Really -- the next course of action if you have a question is to come to the seminar or Chicago and ask them yourself. 

 

 

You'll know when you come upon a "real deal" teacher not by their theistic views or worship of the phenomena called energy,...but by their contradiction of everything you believe, including your beliefs about gods and energy.

I can assure you Master Liao has smashed to smithereens any belief about gods and energy I have ever had. They are smashed daily without mercy as I continue to form any.  He does it at a beginner level for many people in his books too --- maybe not yours, and maybe more gently than you are aware. But if you are going to bring this teaching to a western audience and do not help people redefine their approach to a deity/energy and confront their previous learning in a compassionate, respectful way, how can you succeed?

[tao stillness]

Ego driven intellectual, left brain, pedantic and ostentatious is what I derived from this page.

Drop the verbiage and my teacher is better than your teacher, and instead practice someone's method for energy cultivation and then maybe in a few lifetimes from now you will then know what you are talking about.

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[GreytoWhite]

dwai the single form training you describe is called taiji zhuang in some of the family lineages and is usually an "indoor" teaching. In the flavor of Chen family taiji I was taught each stance as a transition of energy in its own right and the form was just meant for public display and flowing from one energy into another. 

[dwai]

dwai the single form training you describe is called taiji zhuang in some of the family lineages and is usually an "indoor" teaching. In the flavor of Chen family taiji I was taught each stance as a transition of energy in its own right and the form was just meant for public display and flowing from one energy into another. 

It has to be. I don't think people can understand the mechanics of taiji and applications without spending time on single form work, understanding the energetics (not just biomechanics) and becoming empty. 

 

Here's a good article that somewhat discusses this too --  https://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/answering-questions-about-taiji-taiji-da-wen/

[Samoobramba]

Has anybody the Waysun Liao's DVD set "Taichi and the Martial Arts "?

I'm very interested to have it.

[Master of no significance]

First things first: I have a friend who followed WL for several years, because he found that WL really has internal energy. Only thing my friend got very disappointed because apparently WL doesn't TEACH the real thing to anyone.

[Master of no significance]

That said I am also looking for some of the DVDs hoping there is SOMETHING useful in there:

Connect and broadcast

https://taichitaocenter.com/shop/chi-development/learn-to-connect-and-broadcast-6-disc-set/

Disc 2 and 6 "Bowing" of

https://taichitaocenter.com/shop/professional/tao-member-class-collection-6-disc-set/

https://www.taichitao.tv/programs/course-how-condensing-breathing-creates-jing-power-advanced

Anybody?

Cheers MNS

[senseless virtue]

I recently was quite put off by the fact that there weren't public videos of Waysun Liao demonstrating any Taijiquan standard form or moving sequence.

 

Why wouldn't a martial arts teacher keep public videos that clearly show how he practices actual Taijiquan or applies his martial skill?

 

Is he being too posh, too spiritual, or consciously making market value out of hiding and mystique?