Keeping one's practices secret

[Friend]

Edited January 2, 2012 by Friend

[三江源]

further reasons could be:

 

"Might create unnecessary pressure on you to

experience more"

 

"The people with whom you share may not value

what you experience and undermine your

progress."

 

Edit:

This works as well on the Poster as on the Reader.

Think about it...

 

 

Spot on Exactamundo YesSiree

[Gerard]

I have read in a couple places that one should never reveal their meditations or internal practices to others.

 

Well Daniel Ingram has made available to everyone attaining arahantship:

 

http://www.interactivebuddha.com/

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest

 

There are other authors that have done so:

 

http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/

http://www.buddhabrats.com/

 

 

Of course Gautama Buddha revealed the Dharma to mankind...you can't get higher level than this.

 

As the great soul band Sly and the Family Stone once sung:

 

Sometimes I'm right and I can be wrong

My own beliefs are in my song

The butcher, the banker, the drummer and then

Makes no difference what group I'm in

I am everyday people, yeah yeah

There is a blue one who can't accept the green one

For living with a fat one trying to be a skinny one

And different strokes for different folks

And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo-bee

Oh sha sha - we got to live together

I am no better and neither are you

We are the same whatever we do

You love me you hate me you know me and then

You can't figure out the bag l'm in

I am everyday people, yeah yeah

There is a long hair that doesn't like the short hair

For bein' such a rich one that will not help the poor one

And different strokes for different folks

And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo-bee

Oh sha sha-we got to live together

There is a yellow one that won't accept the black one

And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo-bee

That won't accept the red one that won't accept the white one

And different strokes for different folks

I am everyday people

 

 

[johndoe2012]

On dharmaoverground, it is mostly about noting (and Actual Freedom), so the techniques are already known.

 

It is a very different approach than qi-based / no-mind practises meaning in noting one is non-embedding from experience at all times - whether this is the result of qi-based practises, I don't know. So the experience here at TTB is mostly non-verbalized, not broken down to elements.

 

Maybe this is why not so much is shared here.

 

--

 

I agree that reading about other people's experiences can color one's experiences and expectations.

 

At the same time, without any sharing, would people have the motivation to be free of their stuff (karma etc.)?

[Taomeow]

[Cameron]

Not hide so much but my feeling is to just share my personal practices with really sincere people.

 

Nowadays, a lot of people do yoga and meditate..it's fashionable. But to share the practice I do(Kunlun) with others I need to feel some pretty powerfully positive vibes to do so.

 

Personally I think less is more in this regard. If your ever called to be a spiritual teacher then yeah..you get paid money to help people.

 

The high level teachers I have been fortunate to meet are Masters of the arts they speak about..not students. When they share this stuff it's with the authority of someone who really knows what they are talking about..even if they are also supremely humble about it.

 

It's interesting recently I was having a discussion about meditation with someone I don't really know that well. He was talking about how good it was and when I mentioned that I meditate he responded rather disrespectfully " I mean meditation not staring at the ceiling."

 

Mind you, this is someone I barely know. So I told him about my martial arts backround and that I have been meditating for 15 years(no ego about it I don't consider myself a very high level meditator) and for a moment pondered if I should talk about my main practice or not. I didn't. For whatever reason the vibe just wasn't right.

 

On the other hand, a Chinese girl that I am very close with had me opening up about my interest in qigong and Taoist stuff very quickly. She translated some passages from Tao Te Ching for me and I felt a very strong, comfortable connection to talk about these things. So I think that their is a certain quality of energy or vibe to look for and not just blab about your practices to people like we do on Tao Bums

[konchog uma]

Well Daniel Ingram has made available to everyone attaining arahantship:

 

Of course Gautama Buddha revealed the Dharma to mankind...you can't get higher level than this.

 

thanks, i downloaded ingram's core teachings book. I look forward to reading it.

 

it seems more like teachings than technique, which i am all for sharing freely. In that case i think everyone should share wisdom with each other, it really helps. But in my case, I'm working on the jing/chi/shen/emptiness inner alchemy, which is more technique, visualization, mudra, intention, that sort of thing.

 

I mean, some people write books about that, but I would have a hard time writing about it without sharing my own personal accomplishments, which is where i get the weird feeling in my gut. I mean, i'm not a teacher, so why don't people just read the books of teachers?

 

When i have insight or wisdom as a result of my meditations, i can talk about those realizations to anyone. But i get a really weird feeling when i think about talking about exactly what i'm doing. Like it would compromise the work itself to talk about it. Thats all.

[johndoe2012]

thanks, i downloaded ingram's core teachings book. I look forward to reading it.

 

it seems more like teachings than technique, which i am all for sharing freely. In that case i think everyone should share wisdom with each other, it really helps. But in my case, I'm working on the jing/chi/shen/emptiness inner alchemy, which is more technique, visualization, mudra, intention, that sort of thing.

 

Yeah, that book is more about the map. The technique is just one or two pages

 

Regarding inner alchemy, I guess it could be dangerous for people playing around with techniques.

 

What book are you using, by the way? If you can share that

[RiverSnake]

Not hide so much but my feeling is to just share my personal practices with really sincere people.

 

Nowadays, a lot of people do yoga and meditate..it's fashionable. But to share the practice I do(Kunlun) with others I need to feel some pretty powerfully positive vibes to do so.

 

Personally I think less is more in this regard. If your ever called to be a spiritual teacher then yeah..you get paid money to help people.

 

The high level teachers I have been fortunate to meet are Masters of the arts they speak about..not students. When they share this stuff it's with the authority of someone who really knows what they are talking about..even if they are also supremely humble about it.

 

It's interesting recently I was having a discussion about meditation with someone I don't really know that well. He was talking about how good it was and when I mentioned that I meditate he responded rather disrespectfully " I mean meditation not staring at the ceiling."

 

Mind you, this is someone I barely know. So I told him about my martial arts backround and that I have been meditating for 15 years(no ego about it I don't consider myself a very high level meditator) and for a moment pondered if I should talk about my main practice or not. I didn't. For whatever reason the vibe just wasn't right.

 

On the other hand, a Chinese girl that I am very close with had me opening up about my interest in qigong and Taoist stuff very quickly. She translated some passages from Tao Te Ching for me and I felt a very strong, comfortable connection to talk about these things. So I think that their is a certain quality of energy or vibe to look for and not just blab about your practices to people like we do on Tao Bums

 

I agree, i have had similar experiences.

 

One of my favorite videos

 

 

Edited January 2, 2012 by OldGreen

[doc benway]

I wasn't thinking about it in terms of keeping the practice methods secret from others, although I have read that serious cultivators should only talk to their teachers about that, and not even to fellow practitioners.

 

I was thinking about it more in terms of sharing my experiences and successes.

 

I am not really qualified to teach methods of meditation, so if i had a practice journal here, it would be for talking more about my experiences with different techniques. I think I am going to opt out, since I just don't feel comfortable in my bones about it. In the end, I think it is, in part, a matter of ego and wanting to be recognized for my successes. I would like to outgrow those urges. And even a lot of the stuff that my teacher teaches me, he says "just practice, don't start showing other people this stuff" because of course I am not experienced enough to teach, and improperly taught techniques can be dangerous.

 

So I thank everyone for their feedback, it helped solidify my feelings about it.

 

Happy new year!

There are some pretty compelling reasons for not sharing your meditative experiences. My teacher told me in the beginning not to discuss my experiences with my fellow students. After I gained more experience he actually suggested that I being to talk to other students.

 

The major reason seems to be that discussing your experiences with others will shape and color their expectations. The things we experience in meditation can very easily be influenced by our expectations and desires. We desire to advance in meditation. So if I read somewhere that I should see a gold light, my mind will keep looking for the gold light until it finds it. And if i am creating experience based on expectation, the validity and credibility of what I'm experiencing may be altered and may actually create an enormous obstacle.

 

Each of us will have a unique experience of the meditative process, even if we are practicing the exact same methods. The characteristics of our experience are based in large part on our life experience, our background, and so on. The most important aspect of meditation is to allow the superficial, day to day mind to become more tranquil and to access deeper levels of awareness in the mind, body, and spirit. The way for that to occur is through observing and being aware of the mind's activity. If we give each other prompts and clues and expectations we will be much more likely to distract and confuse than to assist each other.

 

Similarly, my meditative practice involves developing a certain type and depth of awareness. The way I will experience this is completely unique to me. The process by which I experience it is also unique and that process is something that needs to be developed. If I am following or being influenced (even at very subtle levels) by the experiences of others, this may shortcut the process entirely. So once I reach a point that is beyond what I can learn from others, I have not developed the process and I'm stuck.

 

I'm not sure if I'm making much sense here because this stuff is tough to talk about but there you have it.

 

When it comes to sharing methods, this is much more problematic. Meditative practices (particularly Daoist methods) can be quite dangerous to susceptible people. If we don't have adequate experience and guidance ourselves, it is a big mistake to show others such techniques. At best, we are showing them something inexpertly and often incorrectly. At worst, we could cause people significant harm if they misuse the methods or share them irresponsibly with others.

 

So I can see real reasons why it's best to keep a lot of this stuff secret.

[konchog uma]

Yeah, that book is more about the map. The technique is just one or two pages

 

Regarding inner alchemy, I guess it could be dangerous for people playing around with techniques.

 

What book are you using, by the way? If you can share that

 

i'm not using a book, although some of what i've been doing can be found in the various books on neidan. I am lucky enough to have an awesome teacher.

[konchog uma]

I'm not sure if I'm making much sense here because this stuff is tough to talk about but there you have it.

 

it makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for your insights.

 

So I can see real reasons why it's best to keep a lot of this stuff secret.

 

yeah when it comes to information i usually have a pretty liberal attitude about how it should be shared, but in this case, i am going to keep my cards against my chest. I don't think the things that are benefiting me would really benefit another person who read about my personal success anyway, unless they were to practice diligently, which is something i can not undertake the responsibility of guiding. So really it is my ego jostling for position, which is what i suspected, but needed you wise bum's advice to really see.

 

Secrecy always bummed me out, but i guess thats just because its used so widely to manipulate and pull the proverbial wool over the eyes of people. Keeping ones private practices private is another thing altogether, and i can see why a lot of stuff is kept secret too.

[mYTHmAKER]

Sharing with like minded people will enhance your experience.

[konchog uma]

Sharing with like minded people will enhance your experience.

 

well I think that the issue being brought up here is that sharing with like-minded people, like-minded though they may be, will actually detract from the experience.

[mYTHmAKER]

well I think that the issue being brought up here is that sharing with like-minded people, like-minded though they may be, will actually detract from the experience.

 

And i feel it can enhance the experience by sharing "with like minded" people.

If you go around blabbering to no one in particular of course you will lose it.

 

We used to have sharing of experiences in the ashram i frequented at one time.

Everyone was in sync and it built the energy.

It's like a contact high

 

So i'm going to share with others who meditate when i feel it's appropriate.

I'm also going to share my taiji experiences with my taiji brothers and sisters when appropriate.

 

Sharing in the right situation can enhance a practice.

Running off at the mouth will do the opposite. That is why one must have discrimination in all actions.

[zerostao]

yeah i like the way mYTHmAKER looks at this. thanks mYTHmAker for all you have shared with me.

i always get a really nice contact high when certain tao bums share with me. they are too numerous to name here

but mYTH is certainly one of them.

[mYTHmAKER]

yeah i like the way mYTHmAKER looks at this. thanks mYTHmAker for all you have shared with me.

i always get a really nice contact high when certain tao bums share with me. they are too numerous to name here

but mYTH is certainly one of them.

 

yer welcome

[Cameron]

 

When it comes to sharing methods, this is much more problematic. Meditative practices (particularly Daoist methods) can be quite dangerous to susceptible people. If we don't have adequate experience and guidance ourselves, it is a big mistake to show others such techniques. At best, we are showing them something inexpertly and often incorrectly. At worst, we could cause people significant harm if they misuse the methods or share them irresponsibly with others.

 

So I can see real reasons why it's best to keep a lot of this stuff secret.

 

 

I agree. And this is a major reason I asked to have my teaching credential taken off my teacher's website. This is not a game. Teaching high level Taoist stuff is not showing someone how to do push ups! It takes a high level of committment and unless one has very deeply verified the truths of what they are saying personally I would hesitate running around telling everyone to go practice their system

 

For example, in my system their are really only two Master level instructors. So on the occassion I do get a strong vibe share with someone I will highly reccommend they take classes with one of them and verify if it is right for them or not themself.

 

But nowadays, you run into people with all kinds of ideas and misconceptions. So probably saying nothing is more beneficial in some situations then getting into the details of your personal spiritual path.

[konchog uma]

i think the main issue for me and my bones here is the idea of cracking the seal of the alchemical crucible. But Cameron what you say is true that silence would benefit someone else more than immature teachings.

[Gerard]

thanks, i downloaded ingram's core teachings book. I look forward to reading it.

 

YMW, it's an excellent guide as it shows your level of progression without having to follow a particular method. Stick to what you do best and make it a daily habit, like brushing your teeth.

 

 

But in my case, I'm working on the jing/chi/shen/emptiness inner alchemy, which is more technique, visualization, mudra, intention, that sort of thing.

 

My experience with direct manipulation of the subtle levels is not as good as directly "controlling/quieting the mind". In this case I have experienced the fastest, steadiest and most powerful experiences without any nasty side effects or whatsoever (don't get me wrong, the pain associated with healing is a natural by-product of spiritual practice, something we all as spiritual warriors must deal with).

[RiverSnake]

I agree. And this is a major reason I asked to have my teaching credential taken off my teacher's website. This is not a game. Teaching high level Taoist stuff is not showing someone how to do push ups! It takes a high level of committment and unless one has very deeply verified the truths of what they are saying personally I would hesitate running around telling everyone to go practice their system

 

For example, in my system their are really only two Master level instructors. So on the occassion I do get a strong vibe share with someone I will highly reccommend they take classes with one of them and verify if it is right for them or not themself.

 

But nowadays, you run into people with all kinds of ideas and misconceptions. So probably saying nothing is more beneficial in some situations then getting into the details of your personal spiritual path.

 

I think the reason that esoteric texts like the Tao Te Ching and the Zohar exist and are written in code is because when you are conveying certain levels of perception that are outside people's level of understanding there is always the possibility that things will be misinterpreted and misunderstood because such levels of experience cannot be adequately conveyed with words.

 

Its only when you cultivate a level of clarity that doors within begin to open and you can see clearly the true intent and meaning of the words authored. 2 people can read the bible and get two completely different interpretations...such is true with any works.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[mYTHmAKER]

2 people can read the bible and get two completely different interpretations...such is true with any works.

My 2 cents, Peace

 

Just like the internet

[RiverSnake]

Just like the internet

 

Indeed, when we receive any information are mind filters it through all of our past experiences to see if anything matches up.

 

If we have no experience of what an apple looks like or tastes like then all the words in the world are empty with meaning in an attempt to describe it. Such is with everything...especially with the esoteric arts.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Sums it up nicely I think..

[doc benway]

Sharing with like minded people will enhance your experience.

 

I agree with you.

I have a training partner and sharing our experiences (in martial arts, meditation, and basically life) have brought us very close together and enhanced both of our experiences.

As you mention in your next post, this is at the root of the tendency for religious congregation.

But, as in religious congregation, the effect is not always positive.

A lot depends on personal responsibility and perspective, I think.