Why is my thread being moved?

[Informer]

??

[Protector]

For great justice I presume?

Or maybe it just has so many frikin pages that no one else understands whats going on in there

[voidisyinyang]

??

Probably because I joined into it and starting kicking butt and maybe the moderator didn't like the information I was providing. haha. I am very radical but politics is "hard wired" by puberty so political discussion always freaks people out. haha. I can do far right and far left and anything in between -- I have a B.A. in international relations and 20 years of political activism with over half a dozen civil disobedience arrests and several campaigns I've organized. I did $1.5 million of divestment from Total Oil for their use of slave labor in Burma. I got the U of MN to join the Workers Rights Consortium against the Nike contract scam that promoted the fake Fair Labor Association -- and the Workers Rights Consortium exposes the heinous sweatshops that create the U.S. imperial lifestyle.

 

Ah well. It was fun while it lasted.

[Informer]

Yeah, you was probably arguing with the MOD's puppet, so many fakes everywhere. Both threads of ownage got moved.

[Protector]

I would really appreciate a new thread that's in plain English, too many numbers in the 2 other ones

[Informer]

Well since no answer is forthcoming, I guess we can only speculate.

 

A.) A really gullible mod bought into Joe's BS

B.) Joe is a mods puppet

C.) ?

 

I don't know which would be worse.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[doc benway]

Well since no answer is forthcoming, I guess we can only speculate.

A.) A really gullible mod bought into Joe's BS

B.) Joe is a mods puppet

C.) ?

 

I don't know which would be worse.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mod Message

 

Informer -

 

This forum is not monitored 24/7 so you may want to give us more than and hour or two before making accusations and smart-ass remarks. A report was made suggesting that the Kyoto Protocol thread had become nothing more than a political debate. After reviewing the thread, I agree that it has little or nothing to do with cultivation or spirituality and moved it to Off Topic. I did the same with the Global Revolution thread. Both topics are primarily political arguments and have been the source of multiple reports.

My action has nothing to do with supporting one side or the other, it's to put political debate where it belongs - Off Topic.

Sort of like I am moving this thread to where it belongs...

 

Mod Out

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Informer]

Yes Kyoto Protocol was in the "GENERAL FORUM" where there was a politically correct debate taking place.

 

Global Revolution was in the GENERAL FORUM where a lot of people, inluding myself, took personal time to compile a lot of important information.

 

You obviously took offense to my suggestion of gullibility. Maybe you could reaccess your decision in. If we are limited to only talking of our selves and not things that matter then what is the point in even having a "GENERAL FORUM" to discuss and yes debate topics that are important to everyone.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[Informer]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mod Message

 

Informer -

 

This forum is not monitored 24/7 so you may want to give us more than and hour or two before making accusations and smart-ass remarks. A report was made suggesting that the Kyoto Protocol thread had become nothing more than a political debate. After reviewing the thread, I agree that it has little or nothing to do with cultivation or spirituality and moved it to Off Topic. I did the same with the Global Revolution thread. Both topics are primarily political arguments and have been the source of multiple reports.

My action has nothing to do with supporting one side or the other, it's to put political debate where it belongs - Off Topic.

Sort of like I am moving this thread to where it belongs...

 

Mod Out

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Then how can the report be countered? Should we take a vote on the matter, is that feasible? Or perhaps since you mentioned a singular report, 2 reports that confirm "Joe's" malicious report was intended only for self serving and egotistical purposes.

[Informer]

I will even prove your biased that I have long suspected.

 

 

 

 

thanks for the report

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Sent 11 December 2011 - 05:54 AM

Hundun and Seth are both longstanding members who normally make valuable contributions. It's a bit unusual to see posts like this from them though both can get passionate. I don't think they're trolling, rather genuinely bothered that the OP's info is inaccurate. Mjjbecker seemed to do a very good job of challenging their critical and unhelpful posts for all to see, so I'm not going to take any official mod action unless the trend continues. I do appreciate the report, however.

Steve

 

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Sent 11 December 2011 - 08:10 AM

I see some biased in your response, should we all not be treated equally regardless of longstanding and normal actions?

 

So a murderer murders only once, but is an upstanding citizen the rest of the time, is that a legitimate excuse to allow a murder to slide? I know you guys have your own little clique, and it is really evident in some of the sort of group thinks that take place. I don't demand that you do anything, but trolling is trolling regardless of prior actions or who is doing the speaking.

 

Have a nice day

 

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Sent 11 December 2011 - 09:59 AM

I may well be biased and I am treating Hudun and Seth as I would treat anyone else.

I only mentioned they are longstanding members because you mistakenly called them new members in your report. Neither of them posted a personal insult. They were criticizing the veracity of the OP's statements and his knowledge of the subject matter, albeit a bit more aggressively than I think is necessary - still not reason to put their posts in the pit or consider harsher action. In any case, before I had an opportunity to take any action, mjjbecker did a very nice job of calling them out on their non-constructive and critical approach. I much prefer to see members police each other than to take action as a moderator. As much as possible, I like to see the board take care of itself - wu wei. It's only when the rules get broken that I feel obligated to intervene. I think you are looking for something that isn't there. What you see as a clique is really just my effort to engage in "hands off" moderation. And then again, I may be acting in a biased manner and not recognize it - I try to be very aware of that and to moderate fairly but I'm flawed.

 

I am having a great day so far - got to work out with my training partner (taiji 2 person set, some ji applications, fixed and moving step da lu drills, 8 palm changes, and xingyi 5 elements) then had some wonderful Taiwanese wulong tea. Now I'm going to watch the Ravens play the Colts! I hope you have a great day as well.

Steve

 

God does not die on the day when we cease to believe in a personal deity, but we die on the day when our lives cease to be illumined by the steady radiance, renewed daily, of a wonder, the source of which is beyond all reason.

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Sent 11 December 2011 - 04:36 PM

Your probably right, I think you have a good approach.

 

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Sent 11 December 2011 - 04:51 PM

Thanks - I appreciate that.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[doc benway]

Then how can the report be countered? Should we take a vote on the matter, is that feasible? Or perhaps since you mentioned a singular report, 2 reports that confirm "Joe's" malicious report was intended only for self serving and egotistical purposes.

You are welcome to submit your own report or to appeal to the other mods or Sean regarding my decision.

When a report is submitted, a mod or mods will review it's validity and act as they feel is appropriate.

After review, it was my decision that the Kyoto Protocol thread had little or nothing to do with spiritual practice and was more suitable in Off Topic.

The thread is still open to discussion in the Off Topic area.

[Informer]

 

As much as possible, I like to see the board take care of itself - wu wei. It's only when the rules get broken that I feel obligated to intervene.

 

True or not true? That is the question. No rule was broken in this case, yet rules were clearly broken in the previous instance that I reported. This thread shall suffice for the grievance.

[doc benway]

True or not true? That is the question. No rule was broken in this case, yet rules were clearly broken in the previous instance that I reported. This thread shall suffice for the grievance.

This is not a case for punitive action so you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

You reported Hundun and Seth for being "trolling new members."

I disagreed that they were trolling and I determined that there was no need for punitive action.

I also pointed out to you that you were mistaken about them being new members.

The personal messages you posted publicly were my attempt to explain my decision not to take punitive action.

Rest assured, I will not bother in the future.

 

This case is a simple matter of moving heated political discussions that have absolutely nothing to do with spiritual practice to a more appropriate venue. There is nothing to prevent continued debate if you are so inclined. If you disagree with my action you are welcome to appeal to the mod team or Sean.

[Informer]

This is not a case for punitive action so you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

You reported Hundun and Seth for being "trolling new members."

I disagreed that they were trolling and I determined that there was no need for punitive action.

I also pointed out to you that you were mistaken about them being new members.

The personal messages you posted publicly were my attempt to explain my decision not to take punitive action.

Rest assured, I will not bother in the future.

 

This case is a simple matter of moving heated political discussions that have absolutely nothing to do with spiritual practice to a more appropriate venue. There is nothing to prevent continued debate if you are so inclined. If you disagree with my action you are welcome to appeal to the mod team or Sean.

 

Did you even read the thread, it was about science and global warming. Politics had very little to do with it.

 

Either you allow self moderation or you don't. What you did was inadvertently take sides, NO RULE WAS BROKEN IN THIS CASE. I simply was going by what you told me before when I voiced concern, now you are pulling a double standard on me.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[Informer]

If you made a hasty decision then whatever. I don't care about the debate with Joe, but I think that the Global Revolution thread should be put back, as it is a culmination of the work of many, and you are choosing to move it based on one kids crying. You are in fact condoning his poor sportsmen ship and being a sore loser.

 

Yes, you are being gullible. We are all at times, and I probably shouldn't have posted the PM, but the point needed to be made.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[bowowtao]

" And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

 

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. "

 

and for the "spirited" Taoist

 

Lao Tzu (official head of this site and all Taoists -on Goverment:

 

GOVERNMENT

 

NOT exalting worth keeps the people from rivalry. Not prizing what is hard to procure keeps the people from theft. Not to show them what they may covet is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

 

Therefore the Sage, when he governs, empties their minds and fills their bellies, weakens their inclinations and strengthens their bones. His constant object is to keep the people without knowledge and without desire, or to prevent those who have knowledge from daring to act. He practises inaction, and nothing remains ungoverned.

 

He who respects the State as his own person is fit to govern it. He who loves the State as his own body is fit to be entrusted with it.

 

In the highest antiquity, the people did not know that they had rulers. In the next age they loved and praised them. In the next, they feared them. In the next, they despised them.

 

How cautious is the Sage, how sparing of his words! When his task is accomplished and affairs are prosperous, the people all say: "We have come to be as we are, naturally and of ourselves."

 

If any one desires to take the Empire in hand and govern it, I see that he will not succeed. The Empire is a divine utensil which may not be

 

p. 38

 

roughly handled. He who meddles, mars. He who holds it by force, loses it.

 

Fishes must not be taken from the water: the methods of government must not be exhibited to the people.

 

Use uprightness in ruling a State; employ stratagems in waging war; practise non-interference in order to win the Empire. Now this is how I know what I lay down:--

 

As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire, the people grow poorer and poorer. When the people are subjected to overmuch government, the land is thrown into confusion. When the people are skilled in many cunning arts, strange are the objects of luxury that appear.

 

The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be. Therefore the Sage says: "So long as I do nothing, the people will work out their own reformation. So long as I love calm, the people will right themselves. If only I keep from meddling, the people will grow rich. If only I am free from desire, the people will come naturally back to simplicity."

 

If the government is sluggish and tolerant, the people will be honest and free from guile. If the government is prying and meddling, there will be constant infraction of the law. Is the government corrupt? Then uprightness becomes rare, and goodness becomes strange. Verily, mankind have been under delusion for many a day!

 

Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish. *

 

p. 39

 

If the Empire is governed according to Tao, disembodied spirits will not manifest supernatural powers. It is not that they lack supernatural power, but they will not use it to hurt mankind. Again, it is not that they are unable to hurt mankind, but they see that the Sage also does not hurt mankind. If then neither Sage nor spirits work harm, their virtue converges to one beneficent end.

 

In ancient times those who knew how to practise Tao did not use it to enlighten the people, but rather to keep them ignorant. The difficulty of governing the people arises from their having too much knowledge.

 

If the people do not fear the majesty of government, a reign of terror will ensue.

 

Do not confine them within too narrow bounds; do not make their lives too weary. For if you do not weary them of life, then they will not grow weary of you.

 

If the people do not fear death, what good is there in using death as a deterrent? But if the people are brought up in fear of death, and we can take and execute any man who has committed a monstrous crime, who will dare to follow his example?

 

Now, there is always one who presides over the infliction of death. He who would take the place of the magistrate and himself inflict death, is like one who should try to do the work of a master-carpenter. And of those who try the work of a master-carpenter there are few who do not cut their own hands.

 

The people starve because those in authority

 

p. 40

 

over them devour too many taxes; that is why they starve. The people are difficult to govern because those placed over them are meddlesome; that is why they are difficult to govern. The people despise death because of their excessive labour in seeking the means of life; that is why they despise death.

 

A Sage has said: "He who can take upon himself the nation's shame is fit to be lord of the land. He who can take upon himself the nation's calamities is fit to be ruler over the Empire."

 

Were I ruler of a little State with a small population, and only ten or a hundred men available as soldiers, I would not use them. I would have the people look on death as a grievous thing, and they should not travel to distant countries. Though they might possess boats and carriages, they should have no occasion to ride in them. Though they might own weapons and armour, they should have no need to use them. I would make the people return to the use of knotted cords. * They should find their plain food sweet, their rough garments fine. They should be content with their homes, and happy in their simple ways. If a neighbouring State was within sight of mine--nay, if we were close enough to hear the crowing of each other's cocks and the barking of each other's dogs--the two peoples should grow old and die without there ever having been any mutual intercourse.

[Dreamingawake]

Did you even read the thread, it was about science and global warming. Politics had very little to do with it.

 

Either you allow self moderation or you don't. What you did was inadvertently take sides, NO RULE WAS BROKEN IN THIS CASE. I simply was going by what you told me before when I voiced concern, now you are pulling a double standard on me.

 

Actually I've listened to interviews with some of the foremost experts on the subject who admit wholeheartedly that there isn't enough solid evidence to prove either way. The subject is almost ENTIRELY political. Even if it was pure science it would still have nothing to do with spiritual cultivation and so it would STILL have been moved to the appropriate area. Steve didn't punish you, he only moved it to the proper forum which might actually help you. People looking for off topic debates are going to be looking in the of topic forum and your thread might be just the entertainment they're looking for

[Informer]

Actually I've listened to interviews with some of the foremost experts on the subject who admit wholeheartedly that there isn't enough solid evidence to prove either way. The subject is almost ENTIRELY political. Even if it was pure science it would still have nothing to do with spiritual cultivation and so it would STILL have been moved to the appropriate area. Steve didn't punish you, he only moved it to the proper forum which might actually help you. People looking for off topic debates are going to be looking in the of topic forum and your thread might be just the entertainment they're looking for

 

I am not interested in kyoto protocol thread being moved, nor am I interested with debating with a crybaby or his cheerleader.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[Dreamingawake]

I am not interested in kyoto protocol thread being moved, nor am I interested with debating with a crybaby or his cheerleader.

 

lol then why whine so much?

[voidisyinyang]

lol then why whine so much?

 

Ravens play the Colts

 

dang for a second I thought it was a martial arts movie. haha.

 

Always looking for new good martial arts movies to watch.

[Dreamingawake]

dang for a second I thought it was a martial arts movie. haha.

 

Always looking for new good martial arts movies to watch.

 

Me too! I think it's been a long while since I saw a really good one. Any recommendations from the bums?

[Ya Mu]

OP

I am probably one of only a few that to an extent agrees with you.

I have been appalled at the fact it seems far too many posters have what I see as an overall unconsciousness of of the entity of Light called Earth. Of course it is a spiritual subject. One that, at the present, should be at the top of our concerns. I personally don't understand anyone who says otherwise. What I see as FACTS are that changes are occurring; what is not agreed upon by the masses is what causes them.

The problem is that folks here seem to want to think it is a political subject. Of course it isn't, but has been made into one by the posters. What should happen is an intelligent discussion leaving out the politics, but apparently that is too much to ask from the people who post.

 

That said, I personally have been amazed at the board owner's "nice guy factor" at keeping this board up. I don't imagine that it even pays for itself and if I had of started it no way would I have put up with the bullshit he has from posters who think they should call the shots. I don't agree with the moderators many times, but the point is they were appointed by the owner of the board to make decisions and if any particular person wishes to keep posting those decisions have to be accepted.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mod Message

 

Informer -

 

This forum is not monitored 24/7 so you may want to give us more than and hour or two before making accusations and smart-ass remarks. A report was made suggesting that the Kyoto Protocol thread had become nothing more than a political debate. After reviewing the thread, I agree that it has little or nothing to do with cultivation or spirituality and moved it to Off Topic. I did the same with the Global Revolution thread. Both topics are primarily political arguments and have been the source of multiple reports.

My action has nothing to do with supporting one side or the other, it's to put political debate where it belongs - Off Topic.

Sort of like I am moving this thread to where it belongs...

 

Mod Out

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

 

Im not going to knock it or call you out, but i would like to place note that politics have a great deal to do with spirituality, usually in the inhibitor factors.

 

While it might not be directly related to how to cultivate, it can usually be linked to how to make widespread cultivation more readily available to people, however, the problem is that everyone argues that their way is the right way.

 

So more often than not a political discussion wont outline anything about spirituality or energic cultivation, but even when it is not mentioned, subtle clue-ins are frequently mentioned and even mroe frequently dismissed or ignored.

 

 

That being said, i dont know what level of indiscussion we reached, but im sure i will keep tabs on some of these threads even in off topic and see about more spiritual topics within.

[Mal]

That said, I personally have been amazed at the board owner's "nice guy factor" at keeping this board up.

 

Perhaps even more so considering that Sean also has to make a living outside of this site and moderating TTB is extremely time consuming. I've had no contact with Sean, outside a handful of emails, for months. It's only thanks to the efforts of the mods that Sean is able to basically maintain a hands off approach while keeping TTB the great place that it is.

 

I don't imagine that it even pays for itself

 

I don't know ..... I would be surprised (and somewhat saddened) if TTB didn't generate revenue.

[voidisyinyang]

Me too! I think it's been a long while since I saw a really good one. Any recommendations from the bums?

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0399007/filmoyear

 

Any of his films -- "thunder legs" -- apparently he killed a dude on the street with a kick to the head. Anyway he is amazing. Then most of his movies blend in with the other greats -- they all start to flow together then.