Revolution and Spritual Expression on a Global Scale

[bowowtao]

" And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

 

and for the "spirited" Taoist

 

Lao Tzu (official head of this site and all Taoists -on Goverment:

 

GOVERNMENT

 

NOT exalting worth keeps the people from rivalry. Not prizing what is hard to procure keeps the people from theft. Not to show them what they may covet is the way to keep their minds from disorder.

 

Therefore the Sage, when he governs, empties their minds and fills their bellies, weakens their inclinations and strengthens their bones. His constant object is to keep the people without knowledge and without desire, or to prevent those who have knowledge from daring to act. He practises inaction, and nothing remains ungoverned.

 

He who respects the State as his own person is fit to govern it. He who loves the State as his own body is fit to be entrusted with it.

 

In the highest antiquity, the people did not know that they had rulers. In the next age they loved and praised them. In the next, they feared them. In the next, they despised them.

 

How cautious is the Sage, how sparing of his words! When his task is accomplished and affairs are prosperous, the people all say: "We have come to be as we are, naturally and of ourselves."

 

If any one desires to take the Empire in hand and govern it, I see that he will not succeed. The Empire is a divine utensil which may not be

 

p. 38

 

roughly handled. He who meddles, mars. He who holds it by force, loses it.

 

Fishes must not be taken from the water: the methods of government must not be exhibited to the people.

 

Use uprightness in ruling a State; employ stratagems in waging war; practise non-interference in order to win the Empire. Now this is how I know what I lay down:--

 

As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire, the people grow poorer and poorer. When the people are subjected to overmuch government, the land is thrown into confusion. When the people are skilled in many cunning arts, strange are the objects of luxury that appear.

 

The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be. Therefore the Sage says: "So long as I do nothing, the people will work out their own reformation. So long as I love calm, the people will right themselves. If only I keep from meddling, the people will grow rich. If only I am free from desire, the people will come naturally back to simplicity."

 

If the government is sluggish and tolerant, the people will be honest and free from guile. If the government is prying and meddling, there will be constant infraction of the law. Is the government corrupt? Then uprightness becomes rare, and goodness becomes strange. Verily, mankind have been under delusion for many a day!

 

Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish. *

 

p. 39

 

If the Empire is governed according to Tao, disembodied spirits will not manifest supernatural powers. It is not that they lack supernatural power, but they will not use it to hurt mankind. Again, it is not that they are unable to hurt mankind, but they see that the Sage also does not hurt mankind. If then neither Sage nor spirits work harm, their virtue converges to one beneficent end.

 

In ancient times those who knew how to practise Tao did not use it to enlighten the people, but rather to keep them ignorant. The difficulty of governing the people arises from their having too much knowledge.

 

If the people do not fear the majesty of government, a reign of terror will ensue.

 

Do not confine them within too narrow bounds; do not make their lives too weary. For if you do not weary them of life, then they will not grow weary of you.

 

If the people do not fear death, what good is there in using death as a deterrent? But if the people are brought up in fear of death, and we can take and execute any man who has committed a monstrous crime, who will dare to follow his example?

 

Now, there is always one who presides over the infliction of death. He who would take the place of the magistrate and himself inflict death, is like one who should try to do the work of a master-carpenter. And of those who try the work of a master-carpenter there are few who do not cut their own hands.

 

The people starve because those in authority

 

p. 40

 

over them devour too many taxes; that is why they starve. The people are difficult to govern because those placed over them are meddlesome; that is why they are difficult to govern. The people despise death because of their excessive labour in seeking the means of life; that is why they despise death.

 

A Sage has said: "He who can take upon himself the nation's shame is fit to be lord of the land. He who can take upon himself the nation's calamities is fit to be ruler over the Empire."

 

Were I ruler of a little State with a small population, and only ten or a hundred men available as soldiers, I would not use them. I would have the people look on death as a grievous thing, and they should not travel to distant countries. Though they might possess boats and carriages, they should have no occasion to ride in them. Though they might own weapons and armour, they should have no need to use them. I would make the people return to the use of knotted cords. * They should find their plain food sweet, their rough garments fine. They should be content with their homes, and happy in their simple ways. If a neighbouring State was within sight of mine--nay, if we were close enough to hear the crowing of each other's cocks and the barking of each other's dogs--the two peoples should grow old and die without there ever having been any mutual intercourse.

 

Any thoughts?

[bowowtao]

This to me looks like spiritual oppression.

Government overrule causes uprising that is spiritual in nature.

Freedom of expression even within politics is essential to

"spiritual" development.

I am a Taoist scholar. I practice mind cultivation that finds
opression in any form a detriment to spiritual cultivation Edited January 4, 2012 by bowowtao

[bowowtao]

Global Revolution

 

Mod Message

 

I decided to move this thread to Off Topic because it is simply political debate and discussion and unrelated to cultivation and spirituality and, as political discussion tends to be, it's been the source of multiple reports.Political discussion is welcome but should be in the Off Topic section.

 

Mod Out

[bowowtao]

Lao Tzu,

 

" The people starve because those in authority

over them devour too many taxes; that is why they starve. The people are difficult to govern because those placed over them are meddlesome; that is why they are difficult to govern. The people despise death because of their excessive labour in seeking the means of life; that is why they despise death "

 

Reminded me of this post in the Global Revolution Thread:

 

Gloabl Revolution

 

"Corporation - Creep Nike CEO expose -- http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

 

The Nike Swoosh exposed -- Phil Knight is the Corporate Creep extraordinaire.

[bowowtao]

Lao Tzu on police brutality at the Global Revolution

 

"Were I ruler of a little State with a small population, and only ten or a hundred men available as soldiers, I would not use them. I would have the people look on death as a grievous thing, and they should not travel to distant countries. Though they might possess boats and carriages, they should have no occasion to ride in them. Though they might own weapons and armour, they should have no need to use them."

 

Was Lao Tzu practicing Mind Cultivation when he wrote about Government Over Rule?

 

Lao Tzu on War and the failing economy

 

War

Edited January 4, 2012 by bowowtao

[Informer]

My thoughts are that this revolutionary mass awakening across the globe is being censored.

 

This is the first time in history that so many people have been on the same page about so many things, and it is so nonchalantly thrown out with the trash.

 

In the end, the revolution will continue. That thing that people feel in their hearts is not something they will forget.

[bowowtao]

My thoughts are that this revolutionary mass awakening across the globe is being censored.

 

This is the first time in history that so many people have been on the same page about so many things, and it is so nonchalantly thrown out with the trash.

 

In the end, the revolution will continue. That thing that people feel in their hearts is not something they will forget.

that thing is awakening conscience -our collective soul

[Informer]

 

Politics have nothing to do with spirituality then this guy died for no cause.

 

"Thích Quảng Đức (Listeni/ˌtɪtʃ ˌkwɒŋ ˈdʊk/ tich kwong duuk; 釋廣德; 1897 – 11 June 1963, born Lâm Văn Tức), was a Vietnamese Mahayana Buddhist monk who burned himself to death at a busy Saigon road intersection on 11 June 1963. Đức was protesting the persecution of Buddhists by South Vietnam's Roman Catholic government. Photos of his self-immolation were circulated widely across the world and brought attention to the policies of the Diệm regime. Malcolm Browne won a Pulitzer Prize for his renowned photograph of the monk's death. After his death, his body was re-cremated, but his heart remained intact.[1][2] This was interpreted as a symbol of compassion and led Buddhists to revere him as a bodhisattva, heightening the impact of his death on the public psyche.[3]"

 

"The Roman Catholic Church was the largest landowner in the country and enjoyed special exemptions in property acquisition, and land owned by the Roman Catholic Church was exempt from land reform.[19] The white and gold Vatican flag was regularly flown at all major public events in South Vietnam,[20] and Diệm dedicated his country to the Virgin Mary in 1959.[18]

The flag consists of six vertical stripes, coloured from left to right as blue, yellow, red, white and saffron. The sixth stripe consists of five squares from top to bottom in the same colours. The flag is rectangular.

The Buddhist flag

 

Buddhist discontent erupted following a ban in early May on flying the Buddhist flag on Vesak, the birthday of Gautama Buddha. Just days before, Catholics had been encouraged to fly the Vatican flag at a celebration for Archbishop Pierre Martin Ngô Đình Thục of Huế, Diệm's elder brother. A large crowd of Buddhists protested the ban, defying the government by flying Buddhist flags on Vesak and marching on the government broadcasting station. Government forces fired into the crowd of protesters, killing nine people. Diệm's refusal to take responsibility — he blamed the Vietcong for the deaths — led to further Buddhist protests and calls for religious equality.[21] As Diệm remained unwilling to comply with Buddhist demands, the frequency of protests increased.

[edit] Self-immolation

Journalist Malcolm Browne's photograph of Thích Quảng Đức during his self-immolation. A similar photo won the 1963 World Press Photo of the Year.[22]

 

On 10 June 1963, U.S. correspondents were informed that "something important" would happen the following morning on the road outside the Cambodian embassy in Saigon.[23] Most of the reporters disregarded the message, since the Buddhist crisis had at that point been going on for over a month, and the next day only a few journalists turned up, including David Halberstam of The New York Times and Malcolm Browne, the Saigon bureau chief for the Associated Press.[23] Đức arrived as part of a procession that had begun at a nearby pagoda. Around 350 monks and nuns marched in two phalances, preceded by an Austin Westminster sedan, carrying banners printed in both English and Vietnamese. They denounced the Diệm government and its policy towards Buddhists, demanding that it fulfill its promises of religious equality.[23] Another monk offered himself, but Đức's seniority prevailed.[1]

 

The act itself occurred at the intersection of Phan Đình Phùng Boulevard (now Nguyễn Đình Chiểu Street) and Lê Văn Duyệt Street (now Cách Mạng Tháng Tám Street) a few blocks South and West of the Presidential Palace (now the Reunification Palace). Đức emerged from the car along with two other monks. One placed a cushion on the road while the second opened the trunk and took out a five-gallon gasoline can. As the marchers formed a circle around him, Đức calmly seated himself in the traditional Buddhist meditative lotus position on the cushion. A colleague emptied the contents of the gasoline container over Đức's head. Đức rotated a string of wooden prayer beads and recited the words Nam Mô A Di Đà Phật ("homage to Amitabha Buddha") before striking a match and dropping it on himself. Flames consumed his robes and flesh, and black oily smoke emanated from his burning body.[23][24]

 

Đức's last words before his self-immolation were documented in a letter he had left:

 

Before closing my eyes and moving towards the vision of the Buddha, I respectfully plead to President Ngô Đình Diệm to take a mind of compassion towards the people of the nation and implement religious equality to maintain the strength of the homeland eternally. I call the venerables, reverends, members of the sangha and the lay Buddhists to organise in solidarity to make sacrifices to protect Buddhism.[4]"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thich_Quang_Duc

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[joeblast]

 

As restrictions and prohibitions are multiplied in the Empire, the people grow poorer and poorer. When the people are subjected to overmuch government, the land is thrown into confusion.

 

The greater the number of laws and enactments, the more thieves and robbers there will be.

 

If the government is sluggish and tolerant, the people will be honest and free from guile. If the government is prying and meddling, there will be constant infraction of the law. Is the government corrupt? Then uprightness becomes rare, and goodness becomes strange. Verily, mankind have been under delusion for many a day!

 

Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish.

 

And people say tea party ideas are whacked

[bowowtao]

And people say tea party ideas are whacked

I'm sure Lao Tzu enjoyed tea, but I don't think they used bags back then.

[Jetsun]

And people say tea party ideas are whacked

 

So you think the Tea Party have better ideas about politics than Lao Tzu

Edited January 4, 2012 by Jetsun

[Informer]

And people say tea party ideas are whacked

 

That is a really cleverly guised belittling remark? Hardly.

 

There are threads for you to troll in off-topic.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Informer

[ralis]

The Tea Party's ideology is about radical deregulation, laissez faire economics, gutting all social programs and all governmental programs the Tea Party disagree with. This is about the accumulation of money and power which only benefits the wealthy few! This is life out of balance and has never worked no matter what the argument. The global revolution is about creating balance and a better life for all!

Edited January 4, 2012 by ralis

[Jetsun]

The Tea Party's ideology is about radical deregulation, laissez faire economics, gutting all social programs and all governmental programs the Tea Party disagree with. This is about the accumulation of money and power which only benefits the wealthy few! This is life out of balance and has never worked no matter what the argument. The global revolution is about creating balance and a better life for all!

 

From what I have seen from the Tea Party it absolutely astonishes me that they get votes from anyone who isn't a complete lunatic. How a party like that can gain any sort of prominence in politics in a decently educated country baffles me, would you really want people like that in charge of nuclear weapons . But I am an outsider so maybe there are things I don't get about that whole situation.

[ralis]

From what I have seen from the Tea Party it absolutely astonishes me that they get votes from anyone who isn't a complete lunatic. How a party like that can gain any sort of prominence in politics in a decently educated country baffles me, would you really want people like that in charge of nuclear weapons . But I am an outsider so maybe there are things I don't get about that whole situation.

 

Outsiders generally see it like it is! Demagoguery based propaganda is a very effective tool to gain power with. History is replete with examples of such insanity. 1930's Germany is the best example. The political right wing in the U.S. still uses Joseph Goebbels playbook to their advantage.

[joeblast]

The Tea Party's ideology is about radical deregulation, laissez faire economics, gutting all social programs and all governmental programs the Tea Party disagree with. This is about the accumulation of money and power which only benefits the wealthy few! This is life out of balance and has never worked no matter what the argument. The global revolution is about creating balance and a better life for all!

As interpreted by the puffington host and daily kos, thanks for the parrot!

 

Balance, say you? When has the universe ever been in complete balance? Perhaps the inflationary period, and that's about it. Microseconds.

 

The only reason people have these fallacies in their head is because the proponents of ever expanding government dont like when proponents of limited government speak up.

 

The ideas that I quoted are ideas espoused by the tea party, espoused by Lao Tzu. *shrugs* Make of it what you will! But if you take dogmatic leftist regurgitations as gospel, then perhaps there's a place elsewhere more suited to your ideals.

 

Again, how are your rants on topic? I made one parallel and out comes the vitriol, right on cue.

 

I'd like for someone to actually identify how these "revolutions" are connected to "the spiritual revolution" - its more that, as peoples are exposed to more and more information, they're finding out more and more how much they are being lied to - what's that got to do with spirituality? That's technology's fault.

[ralis]

As interpreted by the puffington host and daily kos, thanks for the parrot!

 

Balance, say you? When has the universe ever been in complete balance? Perhaps the inflationary period, and that's about it. Microseconds.

 

The only reason people have these fallacies in their head is because the proponents of ever expanding government dont like when proponents of limited government speak up.

 

The ideas that I quoted are ideas espoused by the tea party, espoused by Lao Tzu. *shrugs* Make of it what you will! But if you take dogmatic leftist regurgitations as gospel, then perhaps there's a place elsewhere more suited to your ideals.

 

Again, how are your rants on topic? I made one parallel and out comes the vitriol, right on cue.

 

I'd like for someone to actually identify how these "revolutions" are connected to "the spiritual revolution" - its more that, as peoples are exposed to more and more information, they're finding out more and more how much they are being lied to - what's that got to do with spirituality? That's technology's fault.

 

My post was in regards to my own thoughts and in no way was influenced by the media. I was referring to Jetsun's post on the Tea Party and not you. Any single minded political movement is a grave injustice to all.

 

It is up to us to restore a more balanced existence on this world. I in no way inferred an absolute balance of the Tao was possible. The biosphere and by extension the universe is dynamic, not static.

Edited January 4, 2012 by ralis

[Rishi Das]

I'm still pretty young, 22 so I don't have a huge base of life experience to go off of; that being said I can say that recently I have personally witnessed several people that after having identified the lies, are awakened all the sudden to a new realm which one may call "spiritual," myself included.

 

As with the Taoist Alchemical Arts, we convert jing to qi, qi to shen, finishing with shen back to Tao. These "revolutions" are just now starting to take shape. In a way awareness has emerged and so the stages of alchemy may begin to take place on a much larger level; point being that it all comes in stages of development, one must first understand the microcosm before engaging and understanding the macro. Society as a whole must first deal with the physical blockages that hold humanity back before we move on to the next stages of the process.

 

While the "revolutions" taking place may fade out, the fact of the matter is that they are continuing on strong. What is the definition of "spiritual" anyways? Is one that is still dealing with the physical not on a "spiritual journey" yet? In my opinion life and everything in it encompasses spirituality; these "revolutions" that are taking place could possibly be the beginning of something big, while they just as possibly may be nothing at all.

 

Humanity as a whole has been "spiritually oppressed" for sometime now, so much so that individuals today are only aware of the fact that they have been lied to and that they don't like it; people are beginning to understand that the lies aren't working for the majority and they want to fix them. Once the process of eradicating the lies has taken place, what then...spiritual revolution?

 

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Lao Tzu

[bowowtao]

I'd like for someone to actually identify how these "revolutions" are connected to "the spiritual revolution" - its more that, as peoples are exposed to more and more information, they're finding out more and more how much they are being lied to - what's that got to do with spirituality? That's technology's fault.

The part of the movement that is spiritual is conscience. Conscience is the voice of the soul that connects to universal law, Ma'at, Tao, God, The Earth, The Sun and all other living beings.

 

Conscience is what awakens in any search for truth and is the apparatus that divines truth from lie. All the oppression is making more and more obvious what is most important and everyone wants that right now.

[bowowtao]

Wiki

Conscience is an aptitude, faculty, intuition or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong. Moral judgment may derive from values or norms (principles and rules). In psychological terms conscience is often described as leading to feelings of remorse when a human commits actions that go against his/her moral values and to feelings of rectitude or integrity when actions conform to such norms.[1] The extent to which conscience informs moral judgment before an action and whether such moral judgments are or should be based in reason has occasioned debate through much of the history of Western philosophy.

 

I think in Ouspensky's 'In Search of The Miraculous, Gurdjeif is quoted on how conscience works as a leading voice on the path of spiritual awakening, also in Beelzebub's Tales Gurdjeif covers this topic very well. Basically conscience is a place inside the heart that matches its macrocosmic equivalent the Mother Goddess. Its our link to the ever changing path of spirit inside a giant sea of awareness and choice. Humanities bridge to the divine is every single living beings conscience-choice to abide in unity with each other and the Mother as our guide

 

We are a collective soul -very free and bound to one another for a great purpose

[voidisyinyang]

Wiki

Conscience is an aptitude, faculty, intuition or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong. Moral judgment may derive from values or norms (principles and rules). In psychological terms conscience is often described as leading to feelings of remorse when a human commits actions that go against his/her moral values and to feelings of rectitude or integrity when actions conform to such norms.[1] The extent to which conscience informs moral judgment before an action and whether such moral judgments are or should be based in reason has occasioned debate through much of the history of Western philosophy.

 

I think in Ouspensky's 'In Search of The Miraculous, Gurdjeif is quoted on how conscience works as a leading voice on the path of spiritual awakening, also in Beelzebub's Tales Gurdjeif covers this topic very well. Basically conscience is a place inside the heart that matches its macrocosmic equivalent the Mother Goddess. Its our link to the ever changing path of spirit inside a giant sea of awareness and choice. Humanities bridge to the divine is every single living beings conscience-choice to abide in unity with each other and the Mother as our guide

 

We are a collective soul -very free and bound to one another for a great purpose

 

Yes Gurdjieff is very good on politics -- how modern humans are controlled by their kundabuffer - the blockage in the lower back. Sitting in full lotus clears out this blockage by stretching out the lower back. Politics is better understood as a physiological problem that then creates mind-controlled masses. It goes back to the origins of civilization itself.

 

There is the right wing and the left wing and then there's the pineal gland and the heart. haha.

 

Of course even Gurdjieff is greatly understood -- for example people think he is against the Moon -- which just plays into the Solar Dynasty Freemasonic mind control b.s. haha.

 

Conspiracy means spiral unity and the secret of breathing together in unison to harmonize with the land.

 

Unfortunately the problem is much deeper than the left wing and right wing will ever acknowledge - because those are both modern movements.

 

Rousseau talked about a conspiracy that controls civil society but the libertarian Wilhelm von Humboldt was the closest to figuring out the truth -- in the 18th C. -- he was greatly influenced by Vedantic philosophy.

 

So the original libertarian is the closest to uniting beyond right and left -- but really you have to go before Plato to do that. Plato has to be rejected as evil. Not many are willing to do this in their analysis of political ideology.

 

Chunyi Lin dud use the term "qigong revolution" once -- and I gave him a pamphlet about the qigong revolution and politics. Of course in China there is a long history of qigong and politics which is why Falun Gong was considered so dangerous -- David Palmer's book Qigong Fever is an excellent read on this.

[SpinningDjinn]

We are a collective soul -very free and bound to one another for a great purpose

 

As long as there are those who take it upon themselves to judge others while claiming "Wu Wei", I will continue to fight the uphill battle in the name of all that is spiritual.

 

People have long deemed to own spirituality, yet it is feeble when the truth is already existing within each of us. If people demanding freedom from oppression is not spiritual that what is?

 

[bowowtao]

Conspiracy means spiral unity and the secret of breathing together in unison to harmonize with the land.

 

Thank you, would you expand on 'spiral unity'

 

My feeling about awakening en-mass is the earth actually drives our progress with the sun and moon and at this time the earth is becoming self conscious. Humanity has an option to align through conscience with the mother, but maybe many will not.. at the same time a small group that makes that choice has a very wide sphere of influence and may attract the masses. I wonder how many "enlightened souls" are actually needed for the earths progression?

[voidisyinyang]

As long as there are those who take it upon themselves to judge others while claiming "Wu Wei", I will continue to fight the uphill battle in the name of all that is spiritual.

 

People have long deemed to own spirituality, yet it is feeble when the truth is already existing within each of us. If people demanding freedom from oppression is not spiritual that what is?

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=253734287578732261

 

This is a great documentary about a spiritual based freedom movement -- "Inside Burma: Land of Free" -- Aung San Suu Kyi's book "Freedom From Fear" is excellent. She is now running for parliament but it's been a long struggle with the monks as the main protesters.

 

This documentary is graphic -- showing the massacre of the civilians - but then similar massacres are happening constantly unfortunately.

[SpinningDjinn]

Thank you, would you expand on 'spiral unity'

 

My feeling about awakening en-mass is the earth actually drives our progress with the sun and moon and at this time the earth is becoming self conscious. Humanity has an option to align through conscience with the mother, but maybe many will not.. at the same time a small group that makes that choice has a very wide sphere of influence and may attract the masses. I wonder how many "enlightened souls" are actually needed for the earths progression?

 

All that really needs to be done is to make Spirituality as well as religion completely non-profit. These boards could benefit from that as well.

 

Put it out there and make it freely available for all. Most of the information that anyone is going to pay anyone else for is already available anyways. The ones who stand to profit don't want you to know that though. The compiling of information is helpful so people can easily find it.

 

So without there being profit to religion or spirituality what would one stand to gain by owning it? It would be a waste of time then.