Global Revolution!

[sifusufi]

Here's a new koan I whipped up today...

 

Is it possible to drink the same kool aid twice?

 

[Protector]

Here's a new koan I whipped up today...

 

Is it possible to drink the same kool aid twice?

 

 

ew

[Thunder_Gooch]

“If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.”

-Emma Goldman

 

 

I think the best we can do is keep working hard at our own cultivation, and bettering ourselves and immediate environment.

 

We aren't going to fix this broken machine, it's going to have to be trashed and were going to have to build a new one from scratch, even then there is no guarantee it will be any better than what it replaced.

 

 

"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."

-Buddha

[JustARandomPanda]

I hope TaoMeow will not mind if I link to her posts in the Taoist forum (scroll down to posts #12 and #18). Surprisingly it touches on some of the very things discussed in this thread. Especially in reference to the back and forth between me and Twinner.

 

It's my understanding that TaoMeow has been trained by Taoist priests and shamans directly so when she speaks things "Taoist" I tend to listen closely.

 

However naturally, YMMV.

[joeblast]

You complain about over regulation and will not post one fact to substantiate your argument. Stop attempting to dump it back on me. That type of argument is really weak! Obviously, you have no factual basis for your argument.

Sorry Ralis, "debating" you is a joke. I've posted facts, you just dont care to acknowledge them! Where do the goalposts lie today? They change just about every single time I respond to you! Just like in the global warming discussion, I post data and you call it propaganda http://dictionary.reference.com I'm hoping one day you'll add this to your favorites so we can actually have a discussion using similar definitions for terms already well agreed upon by most of the rest of the world.

 

I dont think you're interested in having any sort of debate whatsoever. You are the one "trying to dump things back on me" by only addressing whatever sticks in your craw most about things I write, forget about that little thing we all learned in second or third grade about "finding the main idea of a paragraph."

 

Seems like I've wasted enough time here in this thread.

[Protector]

Didn't know what to say until I saw this

 

[Seth Ananda]

I fit in rather strangely with this group, as politically I am an Anarchist, But I believe that Democracy {in the real sense} is a crucial stepping stone to creating an Anarchist society. I also fully support Taxation, as our contribution to society but believe most current models are broken, as the Mega rich get taxed the least in many cases.

 

I hear Joeblasts comments, and I want to ask him if he has heard of Sweden?

 

Taxation there is about 80% or massively high, I only hear these things from our regular Swedish Backpackers, but they say the place is just great. Free dental, medical, Education, sport centres, child care, bathing and Sauna centres...

 

And somehow with their semi socialised democracy, they come out as one of the most economically competitive country's in the world... And cross that with ranking high on the Happiest country's in the world poll. America doesn't even make it to the top 10, so why does Joe and others like him think it is so great?

 

Its called Brain washing. All their lives they have been told about the American Dream and how great it is, they see the red white and blue waving in the wind with moving patriotic Trumpet sounds in the back ground, and 'ahh we are the best country in the world...'

 

We Invade and murder millions for their resources, and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The divide between rich and poor is getting huger and huger but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Millions of homeless everywhere... "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Biggest debt in the world, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Have more black men in prison than the population of Australia's biggest city and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The highest Murder rate, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Our own citizens are dying everywhere because they can't afford medical help but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Fattest kids and general population anywhere but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

nearly half the population are Christian nut Bars, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Prisons for profit successfully lobby for a 3 strikes and your out [permanently Imprisoned] law in a country thats {generally} proud of abolishing slavery, and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The religious Nuts in power send masses of money to Israel, to make sure that Israel fulfils biblical prophecy, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Most of its citizens are so heartless that they support people dying from lack of proper medical care just so they don't end up out of pocket and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The list could go on but you get the picture...

America is the greatest F@#!ing Country in the World! Now pass the cool aid, and we are going to make the rest of you drink it with us!

{plays American Anthem}

 

 

 

So seeing all this, and considering the general state of public Brainwashing, then protesters at wall street are always just stupid middle class know nothings [all of them all the time], socialism is 'always' evil and a stepping stone to 'shudder' Communism, which is the massive enemy patterning Brainwashing key here... and Nothing is better than Americanism, ever, in any way whatsoever, all the time...

[ralis]

I fit in rather strangely with this group, as politically I am an Anarchist, But I believe that Democracy {in the real sense} is a crucial stepping stone to creating an Anarchist society. I also fully support Taxation, as our contribution to society but believe most current models are broken, as the Mega rich get taxed the least in many cases.

 

I hear Joeblasts comments, and I want to ask him if he has heard of Sweden?

 

Taxation there is about 80% or massively high, I only hear these things from our regular Swedish Backpackers, but they say the place is just great. Free dental, medical, Education, sport centres, child care, bathing and Sauna centres...

 

And somehow with their semi socialised democracy, they come out as one of the most economically competitive country's in the world... And cross that with ranking high on the Happiest country's in the world poll. America doesn't even make it to the top 10, so why does Joe and others like him think it is so great?

 

Its called Brain washing. All their lives they have been told about the American Dream and how great it is, they see the red white and blue waving in the wind with moving patriotic Trumpet sounds in the back ground, and 'ahh we are the best country in the world...'

 

We Invade and murder millions for their resources, and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The divide between rich and poor is getting huger and huger but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Millions of homeless everywhere... "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Biggest debt in the world, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Have more black men in prison than the population of Australia's biggest city and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The highest Murder rate, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Our own citizens are dying everywhere because they can't afford medical help but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Fattest kids and general population anywhere but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

nearly half the population are Christian nut Bars, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Prisons for profit successfully lobby for a 3 strikes and your out [permanently Imprisoned] law in a country thats {generally} proud of abolishing slavery, and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The religious Nuts in power send masses of money to Israel, to make sure that Israel fulfils biblical prophecy, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Most of its citizens are so heartless that they support people dying from lack of proper medical care just so they don't end up out of pocket and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The list could go on but you get the picture...

America is the greatest F@#!ing Country in the World! Now pass the cool aid, and we are going to make the rest of you drink it with us!

{plays American Anthem}

 

 

 

So seeing all this, and considering the general state of public Brainwashing, then protesters at wall street are always just stupid middle class know nothings [all of them all the time], socialism is 'always' evil and a stepping stone to 'shudder' Communism, which is the massive enemy patterning Brainwashing key here... and Nothing is better than Americanism, ever, in any way whatsoever, all the time...

 

 

Excellent post! You have very accurately described the propaganda that is fed to the masses here in the U.S. Joeblast insists that there is no propaganda coming from his political persuasion. I have studied the use of propaganda and the insidious effect it has on one's perception of reality. The purveyors of propaganda will always use partial information, broad baseless generalizations, lies and innuendo to stifle critical thinking.

[witch]

Black Star

[Enishi]

Several years ago when I stumbled across Mises.org and Lewrockwell.com I thought I had found the ideological Holy Grail which, while not perfect, would fix most of the worlds problems. Over time though I started to realize that ideological path is full of gaping holes, even if the emphasis on freewill is valid. The tendency among libertarians and anarcho-capitalists to think of individuals and physical "property" as wholly separate entities with inherent qualities is hard to reconcile with the reality of an interconnected universe.

 

Afterwards I started drifting more towards the viewpoints expressed below:

 

http://mutualist.org/id4.html

 

INTRODUCTION. Manorialism, commonly, is recognized to have been founded by robbery and usurpation; a ruling class established itself by force, and then compelled the peasantry to work for the profit of their lords. But no system of exploitation,including capitalism, has ever been created by the action of a free market. Capitalism was founded on an act of robbery as massive as feudalism. It has been sustained to the present by continual state intervention to protect its system of privilege, without which its survival is unimaginable.

 

The current structure of capital ownership and organization of production in our so-called "market" economy, reflects coercive state intervention prior to and extraneous to the market. From the outset of the industrial revolution, what is nostalgically called "laissez-faire" was in fact a system of continuing state intervention to subsidize accumulation, guarantee privilege, and maintain work discipline.

 

Most such intervention is tacitly assumed by mainstream right-libertarians as part of a "market" system. Although a few intellectually honest ones like Rothbard and Hess were willing to look into the role of coercion in creating capitalism, the Chicago school and Randroids take existing property relations and class power as a given. Their ideal "free market" is merely the current system minus the progressive regulatory and welfare state--i.e., nineteenth century robber baron capitalism.

 

But genuine markets have a value for the libertarian left, and we shouldn't concede the term to our enemies. In fact, capitalism--a system of power in which ownership and control are divorced from labor--could not survive in a free market. As a mutualist anarchist, I believe that expro- priation of surplus value--i.e., capitalism--cannot occur without state coercion to maintain the privilege of usurer, landlord, and capitalist. It was for this reason that the free market anarchist Benjamin Tucker--from whom right-libertarians selectively borrow--regarded himself as a libertarian socialist.

 

It is beyond my ability or purpose here to describe a world where a true market system could have developed without such state intervention. A world in which peasants had held onto their land and property was widely distributed, capital was freely available to laborers through mutual banks, productive technology was freely available in every country without patents, and every people was free to develop locally without colonial robbery, is beyond our imagination. But it would have been a world of decentralized, small-scale production for local use, owned and controlled by those who did the work--as different from our world as day from night, or freedom from slavery.

 

 

 

[Aaron]

Hello Serene Blue,

 

You last post was quite lengthy, so I'm not going to address everything you talked about, but rather the parts I felt might have been off the mark. The first thing I wanted to clarify is what Anarchism actually is...

 

Now Anarchism does not say that there is no administration, but rather that it is as minimal as possible. Obviously some things need to managed, people need to be protected, etc. So Anarchism isn't about letting criminals wander the street and behave indiscriminately, it's about people being able to live as they want to live, so long as it follows the rules of that specific society. Now many people think of Anarchism and they immediately get this idea of people running around with guns trying to start chaos, but that's not what it's about, it's not even about democracy, rather it's about freedom, unadulterated freedom.

 

Now that I've got that out of the way, let me address the Taoist view. Now I haven't read the Tao Teh Ching in awhile, but from memory I believe that there are several passages that would lend themselves to my argument, in particular the passages that talk about the Sage leading people without them even knowing, how a person can interact with others in a way that is unobtrusive or invasive. In fact (and feel free to point out the passages from the Tao Teh Ching that say differently,) I don't remember one passage encouraging people to riot, rather it says, this is what happens when the people are unhappy and a wise ruler should take notice.

 

Finally, I don't know if I want to keep this up, so this is probably my last post regarding this matter. I've said my peace, nothing else really needs to be said. All I'm doing is beating a dead horse right now. I'm going to let the horse be and just head off to bed. I hope that you are doing well.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

I fit in rather strangely with this group, as politically I am an Anarchist, But I believe that Democracy {in the real sense} is a crucial stepping stone to creating an Anarchist society. I also fully support Taxation, as our contribution to society but believe most current models are broken, as the Mega rich get taxed the least in many cases.

 

I hear Joeblasts comments, and I want to ask him if he has heard of Sweden?

 

Taxation there is about 80% or massively high, I only hear these things from our regular Swedish Backpackers, but they say the place is just great. Free dental, medical, Education, sport centres, child care, bathing and Sauna centres...

 

And somehow with their semi socialised democracy, they come out as one of the most economically competitive country's in the world... And cross that with ranking high on the Happiest country's in the world poll. America doesn't even make it to the top 10, so why does Joe and others like him think it is so great?

 

Its called Brain washing. All their lives they have been told about the American Dream and how great it is, they see the red white and blue waving in the wind with moving patriotic Trumpet sounds in the back ground, and 'ahh we are the best country in the world...'

 

We Invade and murder millions for their resources, and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The divide between rich and poor is getting huger and huger but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Millions of homeless everywhere... "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Biggest debt in the world, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Have more black men in prison than the population of Australia's biggest city and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The highest Murder rate, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Our own citizens are dying everywhere because they can't afford medical help but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Fattest kids and general population anywhere but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

nearly half the population are Christian nut Bars, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Prisons for profit successfully lobby for a 3 strikes and your out [permanently Imprisoned] law in a country thats {generally} proud of abolishing slavery, and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The religious Nuts in power send masses of money to Israel, to make sure that Israel fulfils biblical prophecy, but "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

Most of its citizens are so heartless that they support people dying from lack of proper medical care just so they don't end up out of pocket and "Ahh we are the best country in the World"

 

The list could go on but you get the picture...

America is the greatest F@#!ing Country in the World! Now pass the cool aid, and we are going to make the rest of you drink it with us!

{plays American Anthem}

 

 

 

So seeing all this, and considering the general state of public Brainwashing, then protesters at wall street are always just stupid middle class know nothings [all of them all the time], socialism is 'always' evil and a stepping stone to 'shudder' Communism, which is the massive enemy patterning Brainwashing key here... and Nothing is better than Americanism, ever, in any way whatsoever, all the time...

 

 

I think the same could be said for most Western countries, including Australia, England, Germany, and the list goes on. Obesity in children is prevalent throughout the western world as well. I think it's important that we take notice of these things, but we shouldn't allow it to cloud our judgement in regards to our own countries.

 

I personally like America, but I'm not ignorant of its dark side. The three strikes your out law is crazy, as is the minimum sentencing. My neighbors boy went to prison for 10 years when he was eighteen because he was with some kids who broke into a house, one of them possessed a handgun. The judge stated his hands were tied, that the boy didn't deserve this sentence, but there was nothing he could do. His mother visited him the other day and he's got tattoos and crap all over his body. He's in a gang in jail and pretty much institutionalized, so this kid who had a bright future before that night, is now pretty much looking at a life behind bars. The sad thing is that, aside from a governor's pardon, which wont happen, there's nothing that can be done.

 

And for this story there are literally thousands more. So in regards to the propaganda machine, I'm right there with you guys, just the propaganda seems to be worldwide these days.

 

Aaron

[JustARandomPanda]

Hello Serene Blue,

 

You last post was quite lengthy, so I'm not going to address everything you talked about, but rather the parts I felt might have been off the mark. The first thing I wanted to clarify is what Anarchism actually is...

 

Now Anarchism does not say that there is no administration, but rather that it is as minimal as possible. Obviously some things need to managed, people need to be protected, etc. So Anarchism isn't about letting criminals wander the street and behave indiscriminately, it's about people being able to live as they want to live, so long as it follows the rules of that specific society. Now many people think of Anarchism and they immediately get this idea of people running around with guns trying to start chaos, but that's not what it's about, it's not even about democracy, rather it's about freedom, unadulterated freedom.

 

Yes. I am aware that Anarchism is all of the above and not about chaos and have been for some time.

Did you enjoy reading Max Stirner's The Ego and His Own? I think it's a really good book. Wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on it.

 

Now that I've got that out of the way, let me address the Taoist view. Now I haven't read the Tao Teh Ching in awhile, but from memory I believe that there are several passages that would lend themselves to my argument, in particular the passages that talk about the Sage leading people without them even knowing, how a person can interact with others in a way that is unobtrusive or invasive. In fact (and feel free to point out the passages from the Tao Teh Ching that say differently,) I don't remember one passage encouraging people to riot, rather it says, this is what happens when the people are unhappy and a wise ruler should take notice.

 

 

I get the feeling after seeing all the huge threads devoted each week in the Tao te Ching forum that it's like the Bible. If you look for it there's going to be a way to interpret it to support one's view. Personally I am not inclined to holding to a 'this is the TRUE meaning of these lines'. But that's just me. Others may think differently. I love how everyone each week has A ) different translations and even more fascinating B ) interprets the exact same chapter differently. Pretty amazing. And wonderful. Shows wonderful flexibility and adaptability in such an ancient document!

 

Everyone reading this thread PLEASE spend time in the Tao te Ching forum going over each chapter's threads. You will be amazed at all the beautiful and varied ways people can interpret the exact same lines. Fascinating discussions. Lots of thoughtful responses. Varied ways of interpreting the same Chinese characters. So yes, I'm sure one legitimate way to interpret some of the chapters is the way you do Aaron. Who am I to say your interpretation is incorrect? (besides...I think that'd be rather un-Taoist of me).

 

 

Finally, I don't know if I want to keep this up, so this is probably my last post regarding this matter. I've said my peace, nothing else really needs to be said. All I'm doing is beating a dead horse right now. I'm going to let the horse be and just head off to bed. I hope that you are doing well.

 

 

Sweet dreams and good cheer Aaron.

[JustARandomPanda]

You know...

 

It's amazing what one can find on the web if you just throw oddball words together.

 

I just found the following site tonight and figured WTH - share it with everyone.

 

 

I present:

 

DeepBlackLies.co.uk

 

 

Apparently it is a site devoted to gathering actual evidence of "Conspiracies" (their term) or as I call it "Gaming the System".

 

 

Now one might normally dismiss such as another wacko Conspiracist nut job site.

 

Except for one thing...

 

You can actually download the detailed reports the actual meeting elite participants themselves had created.

 

So for example, You can download the entire report created for the participants of the Bilderberg meeting in 1973. - that is - the actual transcript/minutes of what was discussed at that meeting.

 

Some rather interesting things revealed in that 1973 Bilderberg report...a general agreement among all the participants to jack the price of oil to 400% to help out Oil Companies who were having financial difficulties from too much debt.

 

Another interesting point the group discussed...the possible creation of a Worldwide Federal Reserve who's purpose would be to act for the world banking and finance system what The Fed does in the U.S. today.

 

 

The whole site is like that. Pick a report...download it.

 

You can look at reports to download here

 

and articles to check out here

 

 

 

On a separate note I do not know what to make of this energy book either. I started to dismiss it - until I started to read it and now I'm wondering....wth is going on

 

 

Things that make you go hmmm..

[markern]

“If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.”

-Emma Goldman

 

 

I think the best we can do is keep working hard at our own cultivation, and bettering ourselves and immediate environment.

 

We aren't going to fix this broken machine, it's going to have to be trashed and were going to have to build a new one from scratch, even then there is no guarantee it will be any better than what it replaced.

 

 

"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."

-Buddha

 

And yet the times we live in today are probably the most peaceful and least violent and most civilized in history, at least for as long as there have been enough humans for conflict about land and resources to be meaningful. Studies of skeletons show that in prehistoric times the rate of violent death was 15% or above. This is just from seing injuries from weaponry on the skeleton but you could easily be killed by and arrow or a sword without damage to the skeleton so the likely number is much higher. Studies of violence levels in tribal societies today show them to mostly not be peaceful but rather extremely violent, with rates of violent death at 15% up to 40%. The fact that our DNA shows only 40% of men and 80% of women have reproduced in each generation on average indicates massive levels of violence throughout human history. From the time we started to build larger city states and up until today the rates of violent death has steadily decreased be it death in war or murder. The death rates has decreased century for century and millennium after millennium. Even the second world war was a LESS violent time than the historical average. This century has also seen a further decline throughout most of the world both in terms of war and in terms man to man violence. In addition domestic violence has massively gone down and treatment of animals has improved more than at any other known or probable time in history. The last few hundred years has also seen the abolishment of slavery (although it still exist) and a massive reduction in use of torture which used to be extremely common. Steven Pinker documents this with massive amounts of evidence in his latest book The better angels of our nature: Why violence has declined. The most important of this process has probably been building large societies with a Leviathan to monopolize violence. So although, there are large problems in the world today there is hardly reason to scrap the system, at least without certainty of a more workable one. The reason we believe everything is so bad is probably in large part due to television and newspapers teaching us what goes on in the world today and showing us pictures of the violence we previously would know nothing about. As for the economy, happiness studies show that there is a huge increase in happiness once GDP grows to a certain level then it flattens out. If you look at the numbers for economic development in the last 200 years you will see that almost all countries have had massive growth, even the really poor ones, and that largely the development countries today have faster rates of growth than the developed countries had when they were at a similar level of GDP. Sure life in a tribe that does not have any enemies probably makes people a lot more happy than life in modern society. However, the data clearly shows that the rate of violence was normally so high there is little reason to want to have lived in one of those societies unless you got really lucky and found one without enemies. Because people in tribal societies generally produce a ton of babies, far more than 2,1, tribal life will always eventually lead to conflict over land. It will necessarily lead to a situation were you either die of starvation or fight your neighbor. Once that level is reached you need to build larger civilizations to start of the process steven pinker describes. The one we have built beats any other known civilization.

 

There is massive room for improvement of course but there are highly positive trends amongst negative ones. For example the spread of meditation, yoga and qigong and the research that is going into it. In 30 years time once the research is very thorough and detailed it will be pushed on people by all doctors, all therapists, by personal trainers and gyms, by corporations who want their employes to be healthy, by universities who think it will lead to better results amongst ste students, by schools who think the same etc. In addition people will start doing it more on their own because they see it as a way to a happiness beyond what they even thought possible.

 

Another factor that can lead to huge advances is karezza. Most relationships are not very good and half do not last. Besides the couples themselves suffering this has enormous effects on society because of the negative impact of divorce and the father being forced away from his children (women initiate 70% of divorce) which leads to mental health problems, crime, drug addition, violence etc. Karezza provides the long lasting glue that almost all relationships lack. The first couple of years are usually fine but after the initial feelings mostly die off there is no proper glue and karezza provides that. Eventually, that will also be researched and once the results are in the spread is going to be massive.

 

Both those trends leads to lots of other positives.

 

So I think there is reason to celebrate were we have come and be optimistic about were we might be going. Unless, of curse climate changes or a nuclear war wreaks everything, and that might happen so I`dd say the general trend is very good but there is potential grave danger.

[Birch]

"once the research is very thorough and detailed it will be pushed on people by all doctors, all therapists, by personal trainers and gyms, by corporations who want their employes to be healthy, by universities who think it will lead to better results amongst ste students, by schools who think the same etc. In addition people will start doing it more on their own because they see it as a way to a happiness beyond what they even thought possible. "

 

Um, I'm not very happy about this "pushed on" idea. Is that what you meant?

IME meditation is as much about understanding one's impediments to happiness as it is about actually generating it. I'm not in favour of the "spiritual cow" who chews on the cud of her own suppressed emotions while doing nothing to change the situation. I also believe it's possible to be generally "happy" while also being enraged at certain "world"'situations. That's what rage is for IMO, it's a "change agent". Now this doesn't necessarily equate to taking to the streets and bashing people over the head. In fact IMO that's a misuse of rage.

 

A "good" rage IMO is a slow-burning fuel, much like desire:-) Not to be misunderstood as the need to act immediately, just the need to act.

[Encephalon]

And yet the times we live in today are probably the most peaceful and least violent and most civilized in history, at least for as long as there have been enough humans for conflict about land and resources to be meaningful. Studies of skeletons show that in prehistoric times the rate of violent death was 15% or above. This is just from seing injuries from weaponry on the skeleton but you could easily be killed by and arrow or a sword without damage to the skeleton so the likely number is much higher. Studies of violence levels in tribal societies today show them to mostly not be peaceful but rather extremely violent, with rates of violent death at 15% up to 40%. The fact that our DNA shows only 40% of men and 80% of women have reproduced in each generation on average indicates massive levels of violence throughout human history. From the time we started to build larger city states and up until today the rates of violent death has steadily decreased be it death in war or murder. The death rates has decreased century for century and millennium after millennium. Even the second world war was a LESS violent time than the historical average. This century has also seen a further decline throughout most of the world both in terms of war and in terms man to man violence. In addition domestic violence has massively gone down and treatment of animals has improved more than at any other known or probable time in history. The last few hundred years has also seen the abolishment of slavery (although it still exist) and a massive reduction in use of torture which used to be extremely common. Steven Pinker documents this with massive amounts of evidence in his latest book The better angels of our nature: Why violence has declined. The most important of this process has probably been building large societies with a Leviathan to monopolize violence. So although, there are large problems in the world today there is hardly reason to scrap the system, at least without certainty of a more workable one. The reason we believe everything is so bad is probably in large part due to television and newspapers teaching us what goes on in the world today and showing us pictures of the violence we previously would know nothing about. As for the economy, happiness studies show that there is a huge increase in happiness once GDP grows to a certain level then it flattens out. If you look at the numbers for economic development in the last 200 years you will see that almost all countries have had massive growth, even the really poor ones, and that largely the development countries today have faster rates of growth than the developed countries had when they were at a similar level of GDP. Sure life in a tribe that does not have any enemies probably makes people a lot more happy than life in modern society. However, the data clearly shows that the rate of violence was normally so high there is little reason to want to have lived in one of those societies unless you got really lucky and found one without enemies. Because people in tribal societies generally produce a ton of babies, far more than 2,1, tribal life will always eventually lead to conflict over land. It will necessarily lead to a situation were you either die of starvation or fight your neighbor. Once that level is reached you need to build larger civilizations to start of the process steven pinker describes. The one we have built beats any other known civilization.

 

There is massive room for improvement of course but there are highly positive trends amongst negative ones. For example the spread of meditation, yoga and qigong and the research that is going into it. In 30 years time once the research is very thorough and detailed it will be pushed on people by all doctors, all therapists, by personal trainers and gyms, by corporations who want their employes to be healthy, by universities who think it will lead to better results amongst ste students, by schools who think the same etc. In addition people will start doing it more on their own because they see it as a way to a happiness beyond what they even thought possible.

 

Another factor that can lead to huge advances is karezza. Most relationships are not very good and half do not last. Besides the couples themselves suffering this has enormous effects on society because of the negative impact of divorce and the father being forced away from his children (women initiate 70% of divorce) which leads to mental health problems, crime, drug addition, violence etc. Karezza provides the long lasting glue that almost all relationships lack. The first couple of years are usually fine but after the initial feelings mostly die off there is no proper glue and karezza provides that. Eventually, that will also be researched and once the results are in the spread is going to be massive.

 

Both those trends leads to lots of other positives.

 

So I think there is reason to celebrate were we have come and be optimistic about were we might be going. Unless, of curse climate changes or a nuclear war wreaks everything, and that might happen so I`dd say the general trend is very good but there is potential grave danger.

 

 

Thanks for those words of encouragement and optimism. I share your celebratory tone regarding our checkered past but I'm obliged to reserve my optimism for unexpected breakthroughs on the human front (technosphere), such as solving our post-oil energy needs, i.e., solar powered electrolysis for hydrogen power. On the biosphere front, the news is less rosy. Oil has made it possible to grow enough food for 7 billion people to live on a planet with a carrying capacity of 2 billion, and that's a best-case scenario. But even if we figure out how to solve the energy deficit, we've got changing climatic conditions that could still place limits on population growth due to floods, draughts, and superstorms.

Humanity will survive. Civilization? Probably not. I do agree with you that those lucky enough to make it through the next bottleneck will be practitioners of the bodymind practices you listed. Environmental factors of immunosuppression will be too rampant to live without them.

 

On another note, the recent attempts to cast the Occupy Wall Street movement as a trite and immature movement of aimless troublemakers appear astonishingly shortsighted to me. Even if one were to embrace the stream of corporate apologia that passes for news these days, framing the event within the historical record of peaceful assembly (a Constitutionally guaranteed right that's been violently suppressed for most of American history, btw) yields some interesting clues about the ongoing experiment is self-governance. Some writers are comparing this movement with the global uprisings in other countries, the common theme being that people are sick and tired of groveling at the feet of privilege. Exercises that cast Lao Tzu as the scolding parent admonishing the misbehaving children are too asinine to measure.

 

I still think "The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of Oil, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century" by James Howard Kunstler is the best primer in one volume on what's up ahead for us earthlings. Based on what he writes, and what we know of ancient Taoist villages and the modern ecovillage movement, it appears that a hybrid Taoist/ecovillage model will suit the best interests of those who summon the courage to live.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Encephalon

[joeblast]

[gendao]

DeepBlackLies.co.uk

 

 

Apparently it is a site devoted to gathering actual evidence of "Conspiracies" (their term) or as I call it "Gaming the System".

 

 

Now one might normally dismiss such as another wacko Conspiracist nut job site.

 

Except for one thing...

 

You can actually download the detailed reports the actual meeting elite participants themselves had created.

 

So for example, You can download the entire report created for the participants of the Bilderberg meeting in 1973. - that is - the actual transcript/minutes of what was discussed at that meeting.

 

Some rather interesting things revealed in that 1973 Bilderberg report...a general agreement among all the participants to jack the price of oil to 400% to help out Oil Companies who were having financial difficulties from too much debt.

 

Another interesting point the group discussed...the possible creation of a Worldwide Federal Reserve who's purpose would be to act for the world banking and finance system what The Fed does in the U.S. today.

 

 

The whole site is like that. Pick a report...download it.

 

You can look at reports to download here

 

and articles to check out here

And this is precisely why Libertarians are against Big Gov/Banking/NW0 seeking global control and want to keep power decentralized to preserve individual sovereignty/liberty instead. Big Gov is generally inefficient at best and possibly downright sinister at worst.

"It is shown that the radiological burden due to the battlefield use of circa 400 tons of depleted-uranium munitions in Iraq (and of about 40 tons in Yugoslavia) is comparable to that arising from the hypothetical use of more than 600 kt (respectively 60 kt) of high-explosive equivalent pure-fusion fourth-generation nuclear weapons."

 

The use of weapons in war are most effective when the weapons do not kill, but create long-term health and environmental consequences such as lingering illnesses which slowly destroy the health of the environment and productivity of a nation and the economy.

 

DU is a permanent terrain contaminant with a half-life of 4.5 billion years, forms immense volumes of nano-sized particles (smaller than bacteria or viruses) which are lofted permanently as components of atmospheric dust traveling around the world until they are rained or snowed out of the air. There is no possible protective clothing, air filters, or treatment for internal exposure to this form of a poison radioactive gas. It was proposed as a military poison gas weapon in 1943 under the Manhattan Project. Even worse, uranium targets the DNA, and the Master Code (histone) which controls the expression of the DNA, and slowly destroys the genetic future of exposed populations.

Whereas liberals somehow still tend to view Big Gov as a paternalistic, benevolent, manmade substitute for God (that they angrily don't believe in)...

"The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the Council on Foreign Relations, The Trilateral Commission - founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller - and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens." - Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner (2001)

 

"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities." - Zbigniew Brzezinski.

To entranced liberals, Obama was the heroic, first Black POTUS instantly worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize and the polar opposite of neocon Bush. To Libertarians, he is just another manufactured, teleprompted reality star in a long line of handstrung puppets. For example, a mere minute of Googling will reveal how Brzezinski also just "happens" to be his main mentor..

Rockefeller and Brzezinski selected a handful of well-known liberal Democrats and a scattering of Republicans (primarily of the liberal-internationalist bent) to serve on the commission.

Edited October 13, 2011 by vortex

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Anyone got a clue-in to convince (mass) majorities to con/revert to nature and live off the land, agriculture/foraging, slaughtering/hunting?

 

It's the (only) way(/Tao)...

 

So... quitcherbitchin' and start solution'in!

[zanshin]

Anyone got a clue-in to convince (mass) majorities to con/revert to nature and live off the land, agriculture/foraging, slaughtering/hunting?

 

It's the (only) way(/Tao)...

 

So... quitcherbitchin' and start solution'in!

 

Considering buying a little farm, price is right, don't want to take mass majorities with me. I do agree more with the individual responsibilty side of it. You can teach a man to lead a horse to water, but it scares the fish- or some metaphor like that

[Encephalon]

Anyone got a clue-in to convince (mass) majorities to con/revert to nature and live off the land, agriculture/foraging, slaughtering/hunting?

 

It's the (only) way(/Tao)...

 

So... quitcherbitchin' and start solution'in!

 

Convincing has nothing to do with it. It's a rediculous idea. There isn't enough arable land, water, and animal resources to support all those people, assuming that they all woke up the following morning with fishing/hunting skills, animal husbandry and agricultural skills at their disposal.

 

An economic contraction is inevitable - anyone who can't see it isn't paying attention. This includes almost all of our elected officials and captains of industry, except for those who do know and have chosen to keep quiet because they haven't figured out how to divulge the bad news without precipitating a social calamity.

 

If we had the courage to truly accept our condition rather than bullshit ourselves with fantasies about how to "get the economy going again," we would see three very viable choices (I'm quoting the leaders in the human ecology, urban geography field): rebuild the American railroad system, not with bullet trains, but standard diesel electric engines; retool the urban environments and make cities less auto-dependent; and encourage small scale, non-petroleum based agriculture in greenbelts around the cities. Anyone who thinks, as do plenty on this board, that the aberration on one of Jupiter's moons is actually a spacecraft of a benevolent alien culture gearing up to save us actually deserves what they get; waking up to world where trucks don't deliver food to Safeway anymore, light switches that don't work, toilets that don't flush. Unfortunately, barring some major breakthrough in harnessing solar power (all that's left) this is the fate of our consumer culture.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Convincing has nothing to do with it. It's a rediculous idea. There isn't enough arable land, water, and animal resources to support all those people, assuming that they all woke up the following morning with fishing/hunting skills, animal husbandry and agricultural skills at their disposal.

 

 

"Mother Nature's way of saying 'Hi.'."; Cannabis. It is the solution. It takes a month to mature, can produce more/time construction material than timber, is less damaging to the environment to utilize it as such, has more protien in it's seeds than anything short of soy, indeed has great fiber value, can be used medicinally as well as nutritionally, and has lost it's good name to propaganda over it's recreational value.

 

 

There is nothing rediculous about relying on hemp/cannabis for self sufficiency and agriculture. It's very bountiful and doesnt take up much space. Could replace the entire economy.

 

 

GO GREEN!

[zanshin]

oh my, cannabis?

 

we're going to have to produce a lot more food. Forget the farm, I want a quickymart franchise.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Playing back to the stigma of recreational use

 

 

Forgetting the protien value

 

 

Your post is funny