Global Revolution!

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

A little in-spirit-ion (New word means: spiritual inspiration)

 

 

 

Sign my sweet ass up, brothers and sisters!!..

 

BE WELL!!

[Birch]

What happened to the 'on a need to know basis'?

 

Meh, the video was nice but I'm not signing up. Used to be lists took some effort getting on (and off):-)

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

What happened to the 'on a need to know basis'?

 

Meh, the video was nice but I'm not signing up. Used to be lists took some effort getting on (and off):-)

LOL.. Well, my attorney tells me i've been 'on the list' since giving an anti-war speech in 1968, which somehow ended-up on the nightly news , and.. oddly enough found me with a draft notice that that following January.. of course, my friends expected me to go to Canada 'for the cause', but.. i figured the trade-off for having the freedom to make such a speech, was not abandoning the country that allowed 'free speech', so.. here we are again, some 43 years later, with the ethical dilemma of working within a rigged and broken system, or.. building a new one based on the Principles of the American Dream..

 

The USMC Vets will understand the meaning of The Crucible.. where 'trial by fire' and the 'heat' of perseverance transforms a person's belief in themselves, into the person they have intended to become.. as a nation of people with a birthright of "Inalienable Rights", we, US, and America are entering 'The Crucible' of our future, where we will reclaim "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness", as Principles that guide our 'way' into the future.. Principles which guide the cleansing of a corrupt and self-serving political system.. it is noteworthy, that politicians are elected, so begin by breaking the incumbent inclination to build networks of influence and deal-making.. a politician has one job, to represent his or her constituency as provided for by the rule of Law, and in accordance with the Constitution.. obstructionist politics, excessive re-election campaigning (more than the 6 months prior to actual elections for incumbents), and voting contrary to the expressed will of the the 'people' is not part of that job.. it is the elected representative's obligation to insure, as Abraham Lincoln so well stated, "that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth".. the first obligation is that there be such a government, then that it shall not perish.. So:

 

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility" find it necessary to enforce justice upon those whose oppressive policies impose suffering unnecessarily upon those whom they represent, while increasing their own security at the expense of the governed and without their consent.. and, those elected representatives who have formed corrupt or illegal alliances that influence the just and honorable representation of the governed, along with their allies or co-conspirators, shall be guilty of treason if such illegal or corrupt alliances be substantiated in a court of law at the appropriate jurisdiction of representation.

 

I sense that a 'declaration of intentions' such as these is a reasonable policy, considering the carnage that the current political system has wrecked upon the US.. without any religious inferences, to be elected to represent the people of a free nation, is a sacred honor.. one which shall not be bought or sold, but earned and respected..

 

Be well..

[joeblast]

So how's this "revolution" of yours taking place, tjl? Like I said to ralis before, such a thing would only happen under a massive collapse of society along the lines of a great natural catastrophe. You're not going to bring socialism or whatever the hell transmogrified version of it you're championing to the USA. A loud 8-10% of the population that's had their minds poisoned by leftist ideologies isnt going to change the Constitution so fundamentally. Leftists may "have their heart in the right place" but unfortunately its tough to direct your heart when your head is up your ass!

 

You guys cant even understand (or dont even begin to attempt to read) my analogies, put words in my mouth, then speak as if capitalism is something we vote for or against! Surprise, even if your socialist haven happens, it will still largely run on capitalism. I dont know where the hell you guys get the idea that you can just change fundamental things about society because a few of you feel a couple things are unfair. At least ralis had a couple decent ideas that he put forth, but something tells me that's only the beginning for people of such mindset. Compassion will roll its way into everyone's lives, yes - from the government above, mandating a thousand other ways they believe you should be compassionate - what, then when the new politburo starts doing things you dont like?

 

I find it downright laughable that you mention the american dream - if you toxic hacks get your wishes, the american dream truly will be dead. Just because there are a few things people have taken advantage of does not mean the entire paradigm is rotten or that it doesnt work for....99%, its those 1% crybaby, most of which are ticked off at being told they can be anything they wish then when they go into house-level debt for a piece of paper that says they know stuff and find that their chosen major is basically unemployable, its time to blame the top 1% of earners??? Yeah that's the ticket, dont claim any personal responsibility for your decision, its not your fault you picked what you wanted, everyone else did too, and now you discover that there's something called market forces that ascribe a certain value to a certain job being performed! Sorry TJL, the only time it is going to happen that almost all jobs are flattened in pay is in the apocalypse. Such simple things which drive the entire society, you just wish to change so that "somebody busting their ass mowing lawns 12 hours a day can earn a decent living." No, you guys want to destroy all notions of value - and dont understand how that directly translates to the complete destruction of society - and also dont understand how that isnt going to happens without the apocalypse!

 

Its consistent, I'll give you that. Consistently skewed. The bottom 1% still have it far better than the bottom 20% most everywhere else, but that's not enough - I dont know what is outside of global socialism and every bit of everything is shared amongst everybody.

 

But since that's not going to happen now we're going to be extended into the position of having to have the country's wealth spread over the entire globe, yes? Heard that one before too. It just does not stop until you have fkn Star Trek style society, only without the myriad technological underpinnings that make such a society viable in the least. That you think that will happen in our lifetimes without some truly exemplary technological achievements is laughable, it makes you guys sound extremely naive.

 

Good luck pushing that cart sans horse. Gonna tire quickly!

 

I could continue to destroy the arguments piece by piece and give real world examples of why the fundamentals of our society work as they do, but this is frankly consuming too much of my time and by the time I'm done here I dont want to look at a screen, so actual fruitful efforts are impacted. Not to mention, the couple of you remind me of Pee-Wee Herman, any point I make you guys simply claim the opposite "I know you are but what am I?" and then bring on the ad hominem attacks and sound the refrain of the 1% who destroyed everything. (Except you've got the wrong 1%, not to mention your hatred of the system blinds you to even being open to seeing how things work - you claim you know how things work, yet you can only fix it by destroying it? Doesnt sound like you guys know what the heck you're talking about, if you want to fix something, you dont destroy it.)

 

Skewed to the last. Good luck with that whole overthrowing society thing fellas! Just curious, how does that mean you'll vote this time around? Certainly not a restorative vote I gander, even though TJL laughingly gives lip service to the american dream and restoring the country to what it used to be - you'll vote for Obama so the wrecking of the country's finances can commence, furthering the country from what it has been, what it was founded upon. Dont worry, we're good for the bill. I know its way more than we make in a year, but we'll pay it back. *wink, wink* It will continue until Greece looks good, the % of people on govt assistance is large enough to ensure continued votes for government assistance well over the horizon! Heck of a vision, fellas, heck of a vision. Its a turd wrapped in compassion cellophane.

 

Hey, they....WE just bailed out Greece again...aint gonna be anybody to bail us out if we go down though, did that ever occur to yas? Who's going to pay for all of the welfare and social security and all of those nice to have byproducts of a successful society? Meanwhile, the Obama administration seals the ATF murder records to cover up their shot at undermining the second amendment, assign the worst spendthrifts to the "debt commission"...and havent done a budget in three years. Barney runs free leaving a wake of IOU-bills nobody has any idea how they'll get paid!

 

But yeah, its those 1% earners. Not congress, not the federal govt writ large, not the state legislatures, not the local townships - Stossel said something funny the other day, its almost as if the way people run government its as if they WANT you to be poor, only ever really propping up those whom are already established.

 

Tell me, is your socialist utopia going to fix government at EVERY level? Or is it just going to flatten out pay and stuff, and...the rest..will..just..go to plan?

 

*waits for more ad hominem remarks*

[ralis]

So how's this "revolution" of yours taking place, tjl? Like I said to ralis before, such a thing would only happen under a massive collapse of society along the lines of a great natural catastrophe. You're not going to bring socialism or whatever the hell transmogrified version of it you're championing to the USA. A loud 8-10% of the population that's had their minds poisoned by leftist ideologies isnt going to change the Constitution so fundamentally. Leftists may "have their heart in the right place" but unfortunately its tough to direct your heart when your head is up your ass!

 

You guys cant even understand (or dont even begin to attempt to read) my analogies, put words in my mouth, then speak as if capitalism is something we vote for or against! Surprise, even if your socialist haven happens, it will still largely run on capitalism. I dont know where the hell you guys get the idea that you can just change fundamental things about society because a few of you feel a couple things are unfair. At least ralis had a couple decent ideas that he put forth, but something tells me that's only the beginning for people of such mindset. Compassion will roll its way into everyone's lives, yes - from the government above, mandating a thousand other ways they believe you should be compassionate - what, then when the new politburo starts doing things you dont like?

 

I find it downright laughable that you mention the american dream - if you toxic hacks get your wishes, the american dream truly will be dead. Just because there are a few things people have taken advantage of does not mean the entire paradigm is rotten or that it doesnt work for....99%, its those 1% crybaby, most of which are ticked off at being told they can be anything they wish then when they go into house-level debt for a piece of paper that says they know stuff and find that their chosen major is basically unemployable, its time to blame the top 1% of earners??? Yeah that's the ticket, dont claim any personal responsibility for your decision, its not your fault you picked what you wanted, everyone else did too, and now you discover that there's something called market forces that ascribe a certain value to a certain job being performed! Sorry TJL, the only time it is going to happen that almost all jobs are flattened in pay is in the apocalypse. Such simple things which drive the entire society, you just wish to change so that "somebody busting their ass mowing lawns 12 hours a day can earn a decent living." No, you guys want to destroy all notions of value - and dont understand how that directly translates to the complete destruction of society - and also dont understand how that isnt going to happens without the apocalypse!

 

Its consistent, I'll give you that. Consistently skewed. The bottom 1% still have it far better than the bottom 20% most everywhere else, but that's not enough - I dont know what is outside of global socialism and every bit of everything is shared amongst everybody.

 

But since that's not going to happen now we're going to be extended into the position of having to have the country's wealth spread over the entire globe, yes? Heard that one before too. It just does not stop until you have fkn Star Trek style society, only without the myriad technological underpinnings that make such a society viable in the least. That you think that will happen in our lifetimes without some truly exemplary technological achievements is laughable, it makes you guys sound extremely naive.

 

Good luck pushing that cart sans horse. Gonna tire quickly!

 

I could continue to destroy the arguments piece by piece and give real world examples of why the fundamentals of our society work as they do, but this is frankly consuming too much of my time and by the time I'm done here I dont want to look at a screen, so actual fruitful efforts are impacted. Not to mention, the couple of you remind me of Pee-Wee Herman, any point I make you guys simply claim the opposite "I know you are but what am I?" and then bring on the ad hominem attacks and sound the refrain of the 1% who destroyed everything. (Except you've got the wrong 1%, not to mention your hatred of the system blinds you to even being open to seeing how things work - you claim you know how things work, yet you can only fix it by destroying it? Doesnt sound like you guys know what the heck you're talking about, if you want to fix something, you dont destroy it.)

 

Skewed to the last. Good luck with that whole overthrowing society thing fellas! Just curious, how does that mean you'll vote this time around? Certainly not a restorative vote I gander, even though TJL laughingly gives lip service to the american dream and restoring the country to what it used to be - you'll vote for Obama so the wrecking of the country's finances can commence, furthering the country from what it has been, what it was founded upon. Dont worry, we're good for the bill. I know its way more than we make in a year, but we'll pay it back. *wink, wink* It will continue until Greece looks good, the % of people on govt assistance is large enough to ensure continued votes for government assistance well over the horizon! Heck of a vision, fellas, heck of a vision. Its a turd wrapped in compassion cellophane.

 

Hey, they....WE just bailed out Greece again...aint gonna be anybody to bail us out if we go down though, did that ever occur to yas? Who's going to pay for all of the welfare and social security and all of those nice to have byproducts of a successful society? Meanwhile, the Obama administration seals the ATF murder records to cover up their shot at undermining the second amendment, assign the worst spendthrifts to the "debt commission"...and havent done a budget in three years. Barney runs free leaving a wake of IOU-bills nobody has any idea how they'll get paid!

 

But yeah, its those 1% earners. Not congress, not the federal govt writ large, not the state legislatures, not the local townships - Stossel said something funny the other day, its almost as if the way people run government its as if they WANT you to be poor, only ever really propping up those whom are already established.

 

Tell me, is your socialist utopia going to fix government at EVERY level? Or is it just going to flatten out pay and stuff, and...the rest..will..just..go to plan?

 

*waits for more ad hominem remarks*

 

Joe,

 

Your narrative is composed of opinions, anti-government propaganda and sweeping generalizations. How about some links to back up your opinions.

 

For starters, compare and contrast what the economy was before Reagan i.e, post WWII and the present. Of course, you wouldn't remember that anyway given your present age.

Edited December 1, 2011 by ralis

[thelerner]

[ralis]

This is nothing new and I wanted to point out that these are the type of politicians that lead the "Tea Bagger" movement. Single minded politicians such as Michelle Bachmann are extremely dangerous!!!

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/30/bachmann-suggests-intelligent-design-is-a-scientific-fact/

Edited December 1, 2011 by ralis

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

So how's this "revolution" of yours taking place, tjl? Like I said to ralis before, such a thing would only happen under a massive collapse of society along the lines of a great natural catastrophe. You're not going to bring socialism or whatever the hell transmogrified version of it you're championing to the USA. A loud 8-10% of the population that's had their minds poisoned by leftist ideologies isnt going to change the Constitution so fundamentally. Leftists may "have their heart in the right place" but unfortunately its tough to direct your heart when your head is up your ass!

 

You guys cant even understand (or dont even begin to attempt to read) my analogies, put words in my mouth, then speak as if capitalism is something we vote for or against! Surprise, even if your socialist haven happens, it will still largely run on capitalism. I dont know where the hell you guys get the idea that you can just change fundamental things about society because a few of you feel a couple things are unfair. At least ralis had a couple decent ideas that he put forth, but something tells me that's only the beginning for people of such mindset. Compassion will roll its way into everyone's lives, yes - from the government above, mandating a thousand other ways they believe you should be compassionate - what, then when the new politburo starts doing things you dont like?

 

I find it downright laughable that you mention the american dream - if you toxic hacks get your wishes, the american dream truly will be dead. Just because there are a few things people have taken advantage of does not mean the entire paradigm is rotten or that it doesnt work for....99%, its those 1% crybaby, most of which are ticked off at being told they can be anything they wish then when they go into house-level debt for a piece of paper that says they know stuff and find that their chosen major is basically unemployable, its time to blame the top 1% of earners??? Yeah that's the ticket, dont claim any personal responsibility for your decision, its not your fault you picked what you wanted, everyone else did too, and now you discover that there's something called market forces that ascribe a certain value to a certain job being performed! Sorry TJL, the only time it is going to happen that almost all jobs are flattened in pay is in the apocalypse. Such simple things which drive the entire society, you just wish to change so that "somebody busting their ass mowing lawns 12 hours a day can earn a decent living." No, you guys want to destroy all notions of value - and dont understand how that directly translates to the complete destruction of society - and also dont understand how that isnt going to happens without the apocalypse!

 

Its consistent, I'll give you that. Consistently skewed. The bottom 1% still have it far better than the bottom 20% most everywhere else, but that's not enough - I dont know what is outside of global socialism and every bit of everything is shared amongst everybody.

 

But since that's not going to happen now we're going to be extended into the position of having to have the country's wealth spread over the entire globe, yes? Heard that one before too. It just does not stop until you have fkn Star Trek style society, only without the myriad technological underpinnings that make such a society viable in the least. That you think that will happen in our lifetimes without some truly exemplary technological achievements is laughable, it makes you guys sound extremely naive.

 

Good luck pushing that cart sans horse. Gonna tire quickly!

 

I could continue to destroy the arguments piece by piece and give real world examples of why the fundamentals of our society work as they do, but this is frankly consuming too much of my time and by the time I'm done here I dont want to look at a screen, so actual fruitful efforts are impacted. Not to mention, the couple of you remind me of Pee-Wee Herman, any point I make you guys simply claim the opposite "I know you are but what am I?" and then bring on the ad hominem attacks and sound the refrain of the 1% who destroyed everything. (Except you've got the wrong 1%, not to mention your hatred of the system blinds you to even being open to seeing how things work - you claim you know how things work, yet you can only fix it by destroying it? Doesnt sound like you guys know what the heck you're talking about, if you want to fix something, you dont destroy it.)

 

Skewed to the last. Good luck with that whole overthrowing society thing fellas! Just curious, how does that mean you'll vote this time around? Certainly not a restorative vote I gander, even though TJL laughingly gives lip service to the american dream and restoring the country to what it used to be - you'll vote for Obama so the wrecking of the country's finances can commence, furthering the country from what it has been, what it was founded upon. Dont worry, we're good for the bill. I know its way more than we make in a year, but we'll pay it back. *wink, wink* It will continue until Greece looks good, the % of people on govt assistance is large enough to ensure continued votes for government assistance well over the horizon! Heck of a vision, fellas, heck of a vision. Its a turd wrapped in compassion cellophane.

 

Hey, they....WE just bailed out Greece again...aint gonna be anybody to bail us out if we go down though, did that ever occur to yas? Who's going to pay for all of the welfare and social security and all of those nice to have byproducts of a successful society? Meanwhile, the Obama administration seals the ATF murder records to cover up their shot at undermining the second amendment, assign the worst spendthrifts to the "debt commission"...and havent done a budget in three years. Barney runs free leaving a wake of IOU-bills nobody has any idea how they'll get paid!

 

But yeah, its those 1% earners. Not congress, not the federal govt writ large, not the state legislatures, not the local townships - Stossel said something funny the other day, its almost as if the way people run government its as if they WANT you to be poor, only ever really propping up those whom are already established.

 

Tell me, is your socialist utopia going to fix government at EVERY level? Or is it just going to flatten out pay and stuff, and...the rest..will..just..go to plan?

 

*waits for more ad hominem remarks*

Hi joe: You don't have to "wait for more ad hominem remarks", read what you posted, read the parts i bolded, do you know what "ad hominem" means?

 

Look, you've become irrelevant in this discussion.. you have not in any way produced a plan, method, or idea that might fix the problem.. in fact, you haven't even identified the problem, others including myself have clearly articulated the problem and you consistently resist admitting the truth.. you and your kind have taken from the efforts of hard working Americans, shipped their jobs overseas, and hired the government to protect your corrupt extortion of America's resources while you dismantle the services that those hard working Americans already paid for.. and, that's not an 'ad hominem' attack, that's fact.. if the government had not been raiding Social Security to fund it's poorly regulated policies and wars, that system would much more solvent, i.e.: "As of December 31, 2010, the U.S. government owes $2.6 trillion to the Social Security Trust Fund. This equates to $8,500 for every man, woman, and child living in the United States or $22,269 per household".. this is the effect of conservative policies, who take what they want..

 

You misrepresent what i have posted according to your personal prejudices and bias for profiteering from the oppression of your brothers and sisters.. yes, i am suggesting a radical overhaul of the system, an overhaul that more fairly distributes the resources of Life, such that no one suffers needlessly, and still there are rewards for willingness and effort to contribute to the advancement of the Human Experience.. you resist changing the system that is observably broken and failing because it benefits you regardless of its effects on others, including suffering.. you seem to think that borders and national identity are excuses to ignore the plight of humanity, without realizing that you represent what the world dislikes about America..

 

So, here's the deal.. people will do whatever is necessary to survive, if the system creates conditions that threaten a person's ability to survive, or a parent's ability to feed and shelter their children, there WILL be a reckoning.. so, either change the system through intelligent and common-sense peaceful means to more fairly distribute resources, or face the unpleasant consequences..

 

in closing, i will no longer reply to your posts as long as you misrepresent what i am posting.. as i said, you have become irrelevant in this discussion, you contribute nothing but hateful rhetoric..

 

Be well..

[joeblast]

Ignoring your opponent's articulations does not mean they didnt happen. I have, and you have ignored.

 

Conservative policies have raided the SS "trust fund?"

 

Sorta like this whole failure of capitalism...is a failure of the tinkerings thereof and not the underlying paradigm - but good luck telling that to those of you that keep chanting 1%. I've outlined reasons why - they are ignored by people like you, but I write them because there's more than just the few of us going back and forth here.

 

Funny how since "capitalism is broken" we need to toss the entire system - yet all of the liberal policies that have failed - well, we of course need to continue those! Keep using one measuring stick for things you like and another for things you disagree with - yeah, that's a sure fire way to be honest with oneself!

 

There you go fulfilling exactly what I said would happen, yet again! Accuse me of the very things you do as if you dont do them, misrepresent outcomes...

 

I dont feel the need to waste my time addressing you further, either. Its the very reason things have become so polarized that we cant really "compromise" with those who simply wish to destroy the way the world and this country work - they simply need to be defeated at the ballot box and relegated to the little sewing circles from whence they came where they cant spew their ideologies all over trying to change just about every single fundamental of how the world works - and forcing everyone to comply! That may be how it works in communist places, but not here dude.

[gendao]

Edited December 9, 2011 by vortex

[Immortal4life]

Your narrative is composed of opinions, anti-government propaganda

 

Certainly you can't seriously be saying that anything pro-government has any value or can have any good effect.

 

It seems clear to me that it is government and modern society that is a major problem. It allows selfish people to be selfish. Without governemnt no one would be protecting Wall Street. Without government to protect them it is possible Wall Street could have been taken out already and have been burned to the ground. Government in my view makes things unfair, gives beta males more power than they deserve, and holds back people who want to just take what they deserve and want in life.

 

Occupy Wall Street has a good message, but it doesn't impress me one bit. They will never win with the tactics they are using. You know who impressed me? The Poor. Blessed are the poor. And in 1992 South Central Los Angeles proved they are the place to be, when they rioted, not rallied. In Cali when we riot not rally to live and die.

 

 

Out on bail fresh outta jail, California dreamin

Soon as I stepped on the scene, I'm hearin hoochies screamin

Fiendin for money and alcohol

the life of a west side playa where cowards die and its all ball

Only in Cali where we riot not rally to live and die

In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that's right)

Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do

Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews

Famous cause we program worldwide

Let'em recognize from Long Beach to Rosecrans

Bumpin and grindin like a slow jam, it's west side

So you know the row won't bow down to no man

Say what you say

But give me that bomb beat from Dre

Let me serenade the streets of L.A.

From Oakland to Sacktown

The Bay Area and back down

Cali is where they put they mack down

Give me love!

Edited December 9, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Immortal4life]

Now here's a cause that actually gets me pumped up and excited. A cause that, win, lose, or draw... isn't weak.

 

 

or-

 

So Occupy Wall Street, let me know when you want to stop being pussies, "peaceful protesters", and all that. This ain't the 1970s hippy land peace and love and flowers dude. Go pick a flower Buddhalicious. I want to kick ass, and I want to fight, if I am going to join a cause. If you can get me pumped up, maybe I will join. But no way in hell am I going to march down a street with a sign, it's not my way.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Immortal4life

[gendao]

[Immortal4life]

TzuJanLi,

 

If anyone ever thought for a second they could tell me what I can or can't do, or tried to interfere with my life by "drafting" me. This is what I'd do hahahaha!

 

I'd become a dark avenger. They will all be sorry they thought they could do or say shit to me. My life is my own, and I'd rather fight you than who you tell me to fight. But the key word is fight. I respect fighters. As long as you are fighting for yourself and not someone else.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Encephalon]

Redirected from "America's financial troubles resolved! Faith in financial institutions restored!!"

 

We can breath a collective sigh of relief. John Corzine has issued an apology. Now that a prominent Wall Street figure has made restitution, we can all stop whining about the systematic gutting of the public treasury and go back to what we do best; championing the supremacy of the capitalist system! Go team!

**************************************************************************************

 

A contrite Jon Corzine, in his first public defense of his leadership of now-bankrupt futures brokerage MF Global, told U.S. lawmakers he "never intended" to break rules and had no clue what happened to hundreds of millions of dollars in missing customer money.

 

The former U.S. senator and Goldman Sachs chief executive freely answered lawmakers' questions during a fairly friendly House Agriculture Committee on Thursday.

 

But he tried to duck responsibility by repeatedly claiming a lack of intent and lack of recollection about key events that led to the firm's downfall and its scrambled books.

 

Legal experts said it was a clear tactic to try to avoid criminal charges.

 

"I never intended to break any rules, whether it dealt with the segregation rules or any of the other rules that are applicable," said Corzine, wearing a somber dark suit and armed with an accordion file folder of documents and a highlighter pen.

 

Thursday's hearing was a stunning reversal for a political and financial power broker who endured three hours of pointed questions behind a placard that bore the title "Honorable" in front of his name. Corzine had once been the lawmaker who made witnesses squirm.

 

 

The testimony came six weeks after MF Global collapsed into bankruptcy once the market lost confidence in the firm following a revelation it had made a $6.3 billion bet on European sovereign debt.

 

The search for hundreds of millions of dollars in missing customer funds has sent reverberations through the farm belt and trading floors, and has attracted the attention of the FBI and federal prosecutors.

 

When pressed by lawmakers about whether he authorized a transfer of customer funds to firm accounts - a major violation of industry rules - Corzine said: "If I did, it was a misunderstanding."

 

Michael Weinstein, a white-collar lawyer with Cole Schotz law firm in New Jersey, said Corzine's persistent claim of lack of intent "was essentially code for 'Prosecutor, you bring these charges, you are going to have a hard time proving intent, and that's what you need to convict me'."

 

Neither MF Global nor any of its executives has been charged with wrongdoing.

 

Lawmakers thanked Corzine for not invoking his right to avoid self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. But he was criticized for not giving a straight answer on whether he directed the transfer of customer funds to firm accounts.

 

"Throughout this hearing I can count the times you used the words 'never intend,' 'not to my knowledge,' 'not to my recollection,' 'never intended to.' And I understand the position that you're in, but Mr. Corzine, we've got to find that money," said Democratic Representative David Scott.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Insider link to Corzine video story: reut.rs/rYzrVN

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

THE 'PLIGHT' OF FARMERS

 

Corzine apologized for the collapse of the firm, and said his "sadness" pales in comparison to MF Global's customers, employees and investors.

 

Thousands of customers, including many farmers who use futures to hedge risks, have had their money frozen.

 

"Their plight weighs on my mind every day - every hour," Corzine told the panel after being sworn in by committee Chairman Frank Lucas.

 

Corzine said, "My father was one of those folks who'd go to a grain elevator to hedge out future crops."

 

The hearing stretched over eight and a half hours, and was the first to bring together a full cast of characters, including Corzine, regulators and the legal counsel for the trustee liquidating MF Global.

 

In its strongest accusation yet against the firm, CME Group Inc, MF Global's on-the-ground regulator, said the firm misused hundreds of millions of dollars of customer funds by moving the money to its own accounts.

 

"Transfers of customer funds for the benefit of the firm constitute serious violations of our rules and of the Commodity Exchange Act," CME Executive Chairman Terrence Duffy said.

 

The court-appointed trustee has estimated the shortfall of customer money at $1.2 billion, but CME has disputed that figure as being too high. In his prepared testimony, Duffy indicated the shortfall was roughly half that amount.

 

Corzine was flanked by his bow-tied lawyer, Andrew Levander, and said he was aware that he had the right to counsel. He pleaded ignorance on how customer money might have made its way into the firm's own coffers.

 

"I simply do not know where the money is, or why the accounts have not been reconciled to date," he said.

 

Lawmakers asked Corzine to lay out how he may have "unintentionally" contributed to the mixing of customer and firm money. He pointed to the chaos of the hours leading up to MF Global's bankruptcy filing on October 31.

 

"Someone could misinterpret 'You gotta fix it,' which I said the evening of October 30th,'" Corzine said.

 

'DIFFERENT JUDGMENTS'

 

Corzine defended his time at the top of the firm, which he joined in March 2010, saying MF Global reduced leverage during his tenure. He said he accepts responsibility for the repo-to-maturity trades that related to the firm's $6.3 billion bet on European sovereign debt.

 

"At the time that MF Global entered into the transactions, I believed that its investments in short-term European debt securities were prudent," he said.

 

Corzine said there was some dissent within MF Global about the European debt strategy but that "generally we arrived at a consensus."

 

He tried to drive home that the European debt bets have held up and said the market confidence crisis had more to do with MF Global executives' "inability" to explain that the firm's losses were not tied to the sovereign debt exposure.

 

"Your answers sound so nice, but you riskily invested people's money without their knowledge in a market I wouldn't invest in," said Republican Representative Jean Schmidt.

 

Corzine conceded the business strategy he championed may have been flawed.

 

"Sitting here today, with the knowledge that the market has drawn the conclusion it has drawn, and the facts are what they are, it would have been better to have taken different judgments," he said.

[Desert Eagle]

faithless is awesome, occupy their videos:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6baAz1frzsc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dvPkqJYQ0U&feature=related

[joeblast]

Redirected from "America's financial troubles resolved! Faith in financial institutions restored!!"

 

We can breath a collective sigh of relief. John Corzine has issued an apology. Now that a prominent Wall Street figure has made restitution, we can all stop whining about the systematic gutting of the public treasury and go back to what we do best; championing the supremacy of the capitalist system! Go team!

Cmon man, you cant differentiate between free market capitalism and back room cronyism? Breaking fundamental laws is capitalism? No, that is criminal.

 

 

 

 

Given the results produced by the Obama administration's efforts, its pretty clear that yeah, they do rely on advice from people of the caliber of Corzine.

 

I'll bet the people of New Jersey are NOT having buyer's remorse about choosing Christie over this charlatan.

[ralis]

This is downright freaky! With the new 'National Defense Authorization Act' waiting to be signed by Obama, could this be the future? 1984? Was Orwell a visionary?

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/us/beyond-guantanamo-bay-a-web-of-federal-prisons.html?_r=2&hp

Edited December 11, 2011 by ralis

[Encephalon]

Cmon man, you cant differentiate between free market capitalism and back room cronyism? Breaking fundamental laws is capitalism? No, that is criminal.

 

Sorry, I don't share your fawning adulation for the capitalist order. If you missed my SNL "Happy fun Ball" analogy, then I'll use nuclear power instead; the only way to safetly harness the power of the capitalism is to regulate it carefully, like uranium. This has been for over a 100 years the question on the minds of the sober and the sensible.. how to save capitalism from itself. Once it is allowed to mutate into a socio-economic order that rewards the darker side of human nature, it becomes toxic.

 

I don't expect you to understand any of this. I was serving in the Air Force when Carter was president. I remember clearly how the Reagan campaign turned the federal government into Public Enemy #1, while unaccountable corporate power was passed off as Man's best friend. I am old enough and educated enough to understand the fluidity of ideas, their ebb and flow, their ascendency and descendency. You are neither. You come in here like the captain of Sarah Palin's cheerleading team, brandishing the latest version of the Herbert Spencer school of social Darwinism like it were gospel, but it's just as repugnant as ever. The closest I could come to this drivel would be to turn on Fox News, but alas, you're to the right of Fox News.

[joeblast]

I love the ol defense of claiming the ground upon which one's opponent stands is shaky, whilst one has already had the rug pulled from underneath him.

 

Yes, do not taunt happy fun ball. When government taunts the market, the market responds by hanging on to extra instead of doing something with it, I guess they missed econ 101 "back in your day." Of course you're probably still scratching your head at

"why corporations are sitting on so much cash."

 

Corporate power is not man's best friend - the freedom for a man to make something of himself is, sad you cannot differentiate between the two. Insulting somebody else and then likening me to it does not address the shortcomings in your arguments, or the holes I've poked in it, or the ways in which your arguments dont quite match up to the solutions advocated by an expeditiously regulated free market.

 

But feel free to keep using the tactic, I'm sure somebody is deriving amusement from it.

[ralis]

I love the ol defense of claiming the ground upon which one's opponent stands is shaky, whilst one has already had the rug pulled from underneath him.

 

Yes, do not taunt happy fun ball. When government taunts the market, the market responds by hanging on to extra instead of doing something with it, I guess they missed econ 101 "back in your day." Of course you're probably still scratching your head at

"why corporations are sitting on so much cash."

 

Corporate power is not man's best friend - the freedom for a man to make something of himself is, sad you cannot differentiate between the two. Insulting somebody else and then likening me to it does not address the shortcomings in your arguments, or the holes I've poked in it, or the ways in which your arguments dont quite match up to the solutions advocated by an expeditiously regulated free market.

 

But feel free to keep using the tactic, I'm sure somebody is deriving amusement from it.

 

I can always tell when someone is reading Ayn Rand's 'The Fountainhead'. Obviously, you are having an existential crisis since your existence is entirely focused on the deterioration of capitalism. Read some history Joe! Every ideology and civilization crumbles into the dust heap of history.

Edited December 12, 2011 by ralis

[joeblast]

Does one not take action when a pathogen invades?

[ralis]

Does one not take action when a pathogen invades?

 

The pathogens are unregulated free markets, Citizens United ruling by SCOTUS, bubble markets created by Wall Street and worthless derivatives. In regards to bubble markets, Wall Street speculators drive the price of commodities for their own benefit and don't give a damn if children starve due to shortages of basic food stuffs! High commodity prices create shortages, Joe! Futures contracts are only traded on paper and delivery of the commodity is not required. That parasitic greed must stop!

[joeblast]

fantastic! Well, we have no unregulated free markets - so what now since your starting point is null and void?

 

I've already demonstrated ways in which governmental action takes normal ebb and flow of business, distorts incentives through select favors, leads to an impacted depth of understanding of drivers of particular market forces, which in turn leads to bad decisions which lead to bubbles. In the absence of political favors and other distortion, bubbles are far less likely to develop since the factors which determine solvency are more apparent to the average decider of business direction.

 

Oh, so its the speculators that have driven food and commodity prices through the roof? It must certainly be coincidence that we now grow more corn for fuel than we do for food.

 

Basics, ralis. You're so rabid about those eveil corporations that you are missing very basic, simple reasons for why things happen.

[Immortal4life]

We all know governments never run countries into the ground, only corporations do that, right?

 

This argument seems so pointless to me, and I think it's time the thread dies, since it almost seems to have gone off topic. I don't even think this is what the whole occupy wall street is about. I never thought it was about politics.

 

I don't understand how someone could hate corporations, but still support governemnts. They are all on the same team. They benefit each other, and protect each other. The friend of my enemy, is my enemy. They are all collaborators, so to pick and choose which parts to hate and which to like, is hypocritical. Either you are for modern society and modern culture and will spend your time energy, and life supporting it, or you are against modern society and modern culture and refuse to use your time, energy, and life, to support it in any way. Attempting to create an opinion in between renders you irrelevant, and you will never accomplish anything that way.

 

If you want to get an inch, you have to take a mile. Sometimes to catch a tuna, you have to put a net out and catch some sea turtles, dolphins, and sharks. Now you can say, yes I think it's worth it, or no I don't think it's worth it, but to try to compromise with the Tuna fishers will never work. You have to drive them out of the ocean by any means necessary or accept it.

 

Any means necessary is a principle too many people in this modern society forget.

 

I just don't respect hypocritical people, or people who are so weak they just want to please and compromise with everyone. I don't respect pleasers. Of course I respect Winners the most, but I respect someone who played as hard as they can and lost, over someone who compromises with their enemy or opponents, because you know the compromise has let them get their foot in the door, and you will never vanquish them now. They will continue to take an inch each day, until they have a mile.

 

I believe life is like a sport or a game. In WWE they have a saying "If your goal is not to be WWE champion, to be the best, then you shouldn't be in the WWE." I have a similar view, if you aren't trying to win in life, you shouldn't step outside of the door of your house.

 

I believe in make it or break it. Nothing else is worth anything to me.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Immortal4life