Connecting with Qi: No System Required

[Sahaj Nath]

(edit: quote from lifeforce.)

 

 

Ok, wow! That makes sense of a whole lot of stuff! I suspected that must be what everyone was talking about. It's been a strange trip not really knowing for sure if that was what people have been referring to with spiritual awakenings, but it's nice to know that other people know (have experienced) what I'm talking about (experienced) too now !

 

indeed. you're not alone in your experiences. far from it. and though there has been uncertainty in your own process, that very uncertainty has given you an organic relationship to the incomprehensible which no amount of studying can replace. you can filter even ancient texts on Kundalini through your direct experience. you have the same natural access to that wisdom as anyone who has ever written about it. it's just a matter of how open you truly are, how much trust you can put in your path.

 

 

over 10 years later I still recognize the same feeling when it happens. Often I try to not "dive into it" when it happens, just being aware of it but not wanting to it be stronger as it can cause me to drop my guard when I shouldn't.

 

shouldn't? according to whom? your guard is your barrier to spiritual evolution. unless you have 'special needs' that we don't know about, there is no necessary guard. there is no need for protection. the very things we cling to are what keep us separated from the divine and the miraculous.

 

EDIT: sometimes i forget that the rest of the world is not as crazy as i am, so you'll have to forgive me sometimes. there are certain "practical concerns" of modern life which can be disrupted by kundalini. you didn't offer any details on how your energy was triggered, but most people who weren't touched by a master go through periods (often extended ones) where they don't get to choose a preference. when kundalini wants to have her way, keeping one's guard is typically not an option unless you learn how to compromise with her.

I don't get though, sometimes it is triggered by random strangers who I don't think are buzzing with Kundalini. Any theories why?

 

those people might have a deficit, and their energy body might be pulling energy from your field, causing a sense of energetic stimulation. this tends to happen a lot with me whenever i'm around strangers who have a serious illness. so that's at least 1 theory. *shrugs* there are others.

 

 

Also, so what do people do when they've been "touched"? What are some practices related to it, and the purposes. Not that I want to power my electricity by it or be a psychic peeping-tom, lol, but where does one go from inside the waterfall?

 

one goes the same places everyone else who hasn't been touched goes, but with that added comfort of knowing that you will get a LOT more out of it than others can. just make the effort to be a great listener.

 

EDIT: the most important (or at least fulfilling) thing that we can do is continue to evolve. allow the awakened energy to change you, allow the divine to move through you, as you. learn the great mystery of wu wei by cultivating your relationship with kundalini. discover the joy of realizing that your limited, egoic self is just a vessel.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Hundun

[Sahaj Nath]

I think, I know that I have access to all of this.

I think, I know it is neither easy nor not easy.

I think, I know, that 'shakti' is as much of a 'destroyer' as 'love towards'.

I think i've felt it. It's what I'd call 'better than sex' (to hear it described as 'better than love' was also a moment)

My present capacity for surrender is limited, but she knows that and I feel her patience with me.

 

 

 

*HUGS*

[Birch]

I think there's as much 'good' energy on this forum as there is 'bad'.

 

Thanks for the support Hundun, I was having a 'moment' there

[寒月 Hanyue]

not really either, actually. more like extemporaneous.

 

Dammit, you're gonna make me go find a dictionary!

 

i'm gonna have to get around to finally reading that guy, although i sorta got a crush on that Isha dude in the video above at the moment.

Being playful and 'wandering', crops up in aspects of many paths.

 

this is a really good question. i'd like get some other people's thoughts on this as well...

 

thanks for posing the question.

 

Thanks for the answer I'll post my reply/thoughts when I have more time. I have exams to study for.

 

Best,

[doc benway]

No system required -

 

"If you want to find a point of departure for your new journey of soul, don't choose an intention, don't choose a prayer, don't choose a therapy, and don't choose a spiritual method. Look inwards and discover a contradiction within yourself and stay faithful to the aura and presence of that contradiction. Hold the two sides gently within your embrace and ask it what it wants to teach you."

- John O'Donohue

[Rishi Das]

Very inspiring, the perfect thread to come home to after a week of being gone.

 

hey, he sure looks good in those authentic silk chinese pj's.

 

[Mal]

i think a lot of systems are rigid because that's how you preserve a lineage practice, with the idea that if you follow these steps exactly and observe all the necessary disciplines of the system, you should be able to attain the same level of mastery as the originator of that system. and if something is not working, it's easier for the teacher to pinpoint the problem and make corrections because they know all the ins and outs of the system. there's a lot of merit to this, but a lot of practitioners (and newcomers in particular) take the guidelines for TRUTH. for a certain lineage practice, a move should be done "this" way, but the student internalizes that it must be done "this" way, and it becomes a sin to do anything else. folks who are prone to respect and defer to authority have the biggest problem with this.

 

Agreed, and sadly it's often accompanied with ignoring their own "inner voice" as they have learnt to look outside themselves for "correction"

 

While things become a lot looser once that "same level of mastery as the originator of that system" is achieved. Many people don't get to experience that freedom as they continually "trade in" one system and start another. Often just approaching the "creation of a foundation" from another perspective, yet seeing these "new practice rules" as if they were a "new truth"

[Sahaj Nath]

Agreed, and sadly it's often accompanied with ignoring their own "inner voice" as they have learnt to look outside themselves for "correction"

 

While things become a lot looser once that "same level of mastery as the originator of that system" is achieved. Many people don't get to experience that freedom as they continually "trade in" one system and start another. Often just approaching the "creation of a foundation" from another perspective, yet seeing these "new practice rules" as if they were a "new truth"

 

 

YES!

 

you put that so well.

[寒月 Hanyue]

In your experience why do you think that systems/methods more often than not end up doing just this? Because they don't have to, and some don't. It is unfortunate that most systems go for dogma and rigidity over playful expression and exploration as you describe.

 

this is a really good question. i'd like get some other people's thoughts on this as well.

 

i think a lot of systems are rigid because that's how you preserve a lineage practice, with the idea that if you follow these steps exactly and observe all the necessary disciplines of the system, you should be able to attain the same level of mastery as the originator of that system. and if something is not working, it's easier for the teacher to pinpoint the problem and make corrections because they know all the ins and outs of the system. there's a lot of merit to this, but a lot of practitioners (and newcomers in particular) take the guidelines for TRUTH. for a certain lineage practice, a move should be done "this" way, but the student internalizes that it must be done "this" way, and it becomes a sin to do anything else. folks who are prone to respect and defer to authority have the biggest problem with this.

 

i pride myself in being a heretic, and i accept the consequences that come with that. what i have found is that more often than not, the rules can be either bent or broken with little ill effects, but it depends on the system. the ugly truth that almost never gets talked about is that most warnings are there to protect that school or family's business rather than the student. so secrets are created. taboos. warnings of great harm.

 

here in Sacramento we have Grandmaster Yeyoung who actually teaches his students that if they attempt to teach his art to others before he gives them permission to do so, they will have suffer all kinds of neurological damage and could induce insanity. i've seen this kind of warning in a number of schools, and it's absolute bullshit. but people believe it, and he's making a killing teaching really basic qigong at $115/session. but hey, he sure looks good in those authentic silk chinese pj's.

 

but at the end of the day i don't blame the systems so much as the individuals who want the best, fastest, most powerful program available. they don't realize that such an approach cripples them. they enter into a system that over their heads, and they have no choice but to follow the rules as best they can and hope to get the results they're looking for. it's a consumerist impulse that does not serve them in this arena. they lock themselves in these ideological boxes before they even learn to crawl on their own. we now have a generation of teachers who are so rule and control oriented that they promote notions of micromanaging natural processes of the body like it's a virtue. why the hell would i want to spend my time bossing all my cells around?

 

people who learn this way right from the beginning often fail to see the real extent to which the internal arts are, first and foremost, AN ART! the limits of their own thinking will put a cap on what they can achieve.

 

 

in art class we are taught fundamental techniques, and we are told that in time, technique will give way to expression. this seldom happens in the internal arts world. in fact, it seldom happens in art class as well.

 

start with play. start with expression. and let that authentic unrefined expression submit to technique, but only for a time because technique must again give way to a more developed, more mature, more refined expression.

 

 

thanks for posing the question.

 

As with most things there is no one 'way' with this. These are some of my thoughts.

 

Doc Morris got me into learning theory. He states in one of his books that when old texts say something like "the one thing that lets you learn the 10,000 things", they are referring to meditation. These days my feeling is that while this is true, the one thing is knowing how to learn. Or more specifically knowing how YOU learn. Medtitation of course strips much away and lays this process bare, making the learning of other things easier as you now know yourself better.

 

While some traditions hold the lineage successor up on a pedestal for being the one most able to embody the wisdom and teachings of the previous Master. The point that easily gets forgotten is that most often the Master transmits in a very specific way. Those that 'get' it, simply learn best in the manner the tradition is being transmitted. Those that do not learn in this manner will always struggle. Does it mean they are stupid or unable? no it comes down to the individual and how they best absorb information and embody it.

 

This is why one person who spends 20 years in a system and doesn't get very far, then meets another teacher and BANG the bulbs go on. Then you have them say how crap the old system was and how amazing the new one is. Oddly enough though, if you keep looking, you'll more than likely find the same thing happen the other way around for someone else. Why? Learning theory and learning process.

 

The other important aspect of this is that nothing is static. Our ability to comprehend and the depth to which we can is intricately tied to our state of BEING. This is not a judgemental comment, or something about right/wrong, or better/worse etc. Who you are right now is the total sum of all your previous experience. This is why hearning the same words spoken or reading the same words written down at different times will speak very different things to the same person. Your state of consciousness and BEING changes and is not constant. What we learn in one state is not always available to us in other states, this is taken advantage of in esoteric circles as well as Ericksonian hypnosis and sports performance psychology.

 

Regarding the tradition Vs the individual aspect. There are always pro's and con's, arguments that can be made for either. The tradition when done properly is 'Standing on the shoulders of Giants', it is a supportive structure that means one person does not have to reinvent the wheel and spent years chasing dead ends. Traditions and lineages does not mean there is no creativity, and yet there is also a giving up of self that can appear to be stifling or constrictive. Yet is this any different to giving oneself up to an art or music teacher? It is knowing how and when.

 

Not adhering to a system means no rules, you are free to work out things as they makes most sense to you, how things work best for you. It doesn't matter, and no obligations are a burden. The guiding light is most helps you get where you wnat to go now.

 

There are also the negative sides of these, traditions and teachers of them that simply take advantage, or have become solely about the tradition and not the people that make the tradition (what is a lineage if not the people in it?). Individuals who with no guidance spend their lives searching and never getting anywhere, or worse deluding themselves. An incredible arrogance can be born from both the self styled indivduals, as well as the 'my lineage is the oldest/best/powerfullest' crowd.

 

And this is part of it for me. One is about being something bigger than oneself, the other is about standing on ones own two feet. Do they have to be a polarity? I don't feel it has to be an either or, situation. I think the separation is the myth. I don't percieve a lineage as meaning you have no freedom to experiment or be creative. It's not about changing the methods taught, but about engaging with those practices in a way that makes sense to you, to your current state of BEING. And seeing how that changes over time, as the method stays the same and yet changes as it deepens in you.

 

Of course there are traditions that are taught in a very rigid way. This is not just an Eastern thing. The idea is primarily about the individual giving up themselves to learn to be free from the constraints they themselves cannot see. Something VERY hard to do on ones own, as we all hide from ourselves. But is this the only way? Not at all.

 

Whether any approach is a waste of time simply comes down to whether it was appropriate for that person at the point in their path. I do feel that too many rely on the percieved 'All knowing' teacher to determine this, and do not even make an effort to meet them half way. Even in a lineage you don't lose autonomy or responsibility for your self, not in a real lineage anyway.If you have a teacher you trust you can seek their guidance as well as listen to yourself.

 

The more you open to your self and your own learning process, the more you can listen and then you will know when a lineage will or will not be beneficial if embraced, or if you need to do you own thing and simply put in the time and effort.

 

Anyway, its late and I've rambled enough. Hope it is coherent enough to make sense in some way.

 

Best,

[Birch]

That was very good Snowmonki!

Personally I feel that if I didn't read about specific meditations, it just wouldn't occur to me to do them by myself. Your post reminded me of the secret smile which is a very intentional thing to do. Definitely results in the warm fuzzies for me but I don't do it very often.

 

I would also include that a neat thing about some systems is they come with 'instructiions' on what helps when things go wrong. I think that's a good idea to have in there as it provides the student with their own way of taking care of themselves if they mess up.

 

Also agree that a system gives you no place to hide. In fact I suspect my heavy reliance on emptiness meditation has probably contributed to a bit more hiding on my part, but if it has, I can't see it any more anyway.

[Mokona]

Teachers for in person transmission! I would love to try shaktipat. Personally, the idea of having some clearing done for me is a great idea. :_)

[KarthusMeanor]

Bravo Hundun, all the tools that are used in discovery have been present with you throughout most of your life.

 

Saying and thinking is not doing, no amount of saying will ever make up for doing. Yet no one can do it for you.

[Humble]

Excellent post! Reminds me of Musashi a bit.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Humble

[lifeforce]

Today I have just had the most massively intense blissful tingling sensation all over my body. Every hair on my body was standing up for at least 20 minutes non-stop. There seemed to be no source of the energy but I noticed that the sensation was MUCH more pronounced in both of my shoulder blades. I'm not sure what is going on because this was even more stronger than my initial shaktipat nine months ago.

I was at work, and it's fortunate that I work in my own area, or my colleagues would have thought I was mad !

I'm not sure which way to turn now. My mind is in turmoil. I have been attracted lately to bhakti-yoga, especially Krsna Conciousness, but their teachings don't have any focus on kundalini or shakti.

Any suggestions anyone ?

[Sahaj Nath]

Today I have just had the most massively intense blissful tingling sensation all over my body. Every hair on my body was standing up for at least 20 minutes non-stop. There seemed to be no source of the energy but I noticed that the sensation was MUCH more pronounced in both of my shoulder blades. I'm not sure what is going on because this was even more stronger than my initial shaktipat nine months ago.

I was at work, and it's fortunate that I work in my own area, or my colleagues would have thought I was mad !

I'm not sure which way to turn now. My mind is in turmoil. I have been attracted lately to bhakti-yoga, especially Krsna Conciousness, but their teachings don't have any focus on kundalini or shakti.

Any suggestions anyone ?

 

devotional practice can be a powerful stabilizing force. Bhakti yoga is a mainstay in Shaivism.

 

my first recommendation would be to find a Master/Guru. someone whom you can love, trust, and put faith in. someone who is NOT just some information resource that you take from. the mandala of the Master/Guru is very healing and nurturing. you'll be able to process all of that turmoil at a much more manageable pace. and in fact, some of it you won't even notice as the Guru and the Lineage clears a lot of the garbage for you.

 

since your awakening came from interaction with the presence of Gabriel Cousens, i suggest that you seek out a master whose lineage flows from Baba Muktananda and/or Bhagawan Nityananda. as per your own experience, distance is no object for the spiritual transmission, so it's perfectly fine if your teacher lives hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

 

if this doesn't quite flow with you...

 

my next recommendation would be to develop a regular, consistent practice that includes:

 

1.) chanting/singing words of devotion. any tradition that speaks to you will work. even gospel. this can also include

worship/prostrations to an image or object representative of a being for whom you have the highest regard

 

2.) vigorous exercise in the form of shaking, running, kickboxing, or all of the above. something cathartic where you can work out stagnant energy and you are free to go nuts.

 

3.) harmony exercise in the form of yoga/qigong, or daily walks in nature where you allow yourself to be absorbed in your environment with an air of gratitude.

 

4.) meditation. keep it simple. vipassana, zen, water method.

 

5.) selfless service. this can be just about anything, even work, but something wherein you benefit others without any self-centered gain for you.

 

6.) journaling, either at the end of the day, prior to meditation, or both. let that be a place where you catalog your daily blessings & express gratitude, and also a place where you dump all your heavy issues. maybe even keep two journals, one for gratitude and one for processing & venting.

 

so those are my 6 Jewels of spiritual cultivation, regardless of which tradition is being practiced. if you can find a way to engage all 6 (or at least MOST of them) on a daily basis, your process should smooth out, and your overall development should actually accelerate at the same time.

 

it's a sort of cross-training effect. you'll balance and develop faster in ALL of the areas covered than if you just tried to grind out any one of them alone.

 

the one area that i didn't mention is diet. that one's on you.

 

 

if you make time for cultivation on a regular basis, you shouldn't have to deal with extremes at inappropriate times.

 

feel free to PM me if you like. i'm happy to help you work it out if you need anything else.

[lifeforce]

Thanks Hundun, your help is very much appreciated.

 

Maybe I'll follow the example of Gabriel Cousens and go back to the tradition of my culture and what I was brought up with.

In his case it was Judaism, but with a meditative focus through exposure to Eastern traditions.

For me it would have to be Christianity, but with a mystical, meditative slant because of my dabblings with Taoism, Buddhism and Vedanta.

My part of the world is saturated with early British Christianity especially Celtic Christianity. The saints are revered here and their are countless pilgrimage sites, some dating back 1400 years.

I was brought up with the church and my parents sent me to sunday school every week.

At school we gathered in morning assembly every day and said the lord's prayer in unison. Hymns were also a regular part of school life. This is how it was in the 1970's in England for most kids.

Up until the age of 13 the church was part of my development as a child. Around that age I became disinterested, as most teenagers do.

In my late 20's when the BIG QUESTIONS reared their ugly heads, I investigated the Eastern traditions. I never gave a thought to Christianity, at all. Until recently.

I'm now well into my forties and have a lot of spiritual mileage. Unfortunately, this comes with an awful lot of spiritual baggage as well.

When I had the experience of shaktipat, thoughts of God came flooding through me, but I thought it was the Eastern, yogic interpretation of God which I wanted to delve into. Hence my attraction to bhakti.

An inner voice recently seemed to be urging me to explore my Christian heritage. I've ignored it until now, but something tells me that we should ALWAYS trust our gut feelings, even if our head is telling us otherwise.

So, this is what I believe I have to do. Go back to my roots and of my ancestors.

 

I like your 6 jewels of spiritual cultivation. Here's my (updated) version based on it.

 

1. The Lord's Prayer.

2. Weight training and sprints. Been doing these a while now.

3. Xing Yi Nei Gong, which I've been practicing daily for 10 years + and Five Tibetans, which I've re-started a few weeks ago. I also walk every day in nature, and have done for many years.

4. Full Lotus Mantra Meditation - Maranatha, which means Come,Lord in Aramaic. A practice of the Desert Fathers and now of modern Christian meditators.

5. Giving to the needy and to charities. Part of me which needs some work.

6. Journalling. I actually used to do this, but stopped a couple of years back, thinking it was unnecessary. Need to pick this up again.

 

Thanks for the great advice.

[sirius]

hundun, thank for your great posts. i immediately thought of "not doing" or complete surrender to the dao when i read your words. to give up the ego, to be sincere and to surrender to the life force seem to be the important things - according to my limited experiences. and experimenting, definetely. and to have fun!

 

many blessings!

 

sirius

[Jetsun]

I thought the Lords Prayer was just a regular hymn until I read Meister Eckharts commentary on it in a strange book called "The recapitulation of the Lords Prayer" which blew my mind.

 

Also this might be of interest:

" The Lord's Prayer, he said, always referring to it as "your Lord's Prayer," was designed "as a devotional breathing exercise to be chanted on a single even breath." The same was true of other ancient prayers composed in the East in the distant past. Subtle advantages of far-reaching value, he said, are derived from the vibrations caused by correct incantation, polarized mentally by the words of the prayers. To intone them as they were intended to be intoned equal attention must be devoted to the three elements: the breath, the sound, and the words. In the modern religion of the West, which has degenerated into hopeless institutional formalism, the words are mistaken for the whole thing. "I have been in many churches in England and America," said my mysterious host, "and always heard the congregation mumble the Lord's Prayer all together in a scrambled grunt as if the mere muttered repetition of the formula were all that is required."

http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/ozay.htm

[Aetherous]

About the Lord's prayer...Jesus himself (who came up with it of course) made it clear that what's important is the meaning behind the words, and that it's not meant to be like a mantra. If further instruction were necessary, it would have been included.

 

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans*, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

 

Matthew 6:5-8 NIV

 

* pagans can refer to the Gentiles of that time

 

So the prayer is like training to cultivate a state of forgiveness, humility, simplicity, acknowledgement of God, asking for protection...and for communing with God. It does not depend on a certain tone, upon using the breath a certain way, upon a certain way of repetition, etc. "Vibrations" are meaningless in comparison to the real change of heart that occurs through simple contemplation of its meaning.

[lifeforce]

About the Lord's prayer...Jesus himself (who came up with it of course) made it clear that what's important is the meaning behind the words, and that it's not meant to be like a mantra. If further instruction were necessary, it would have been included.

 

 

 

So the prayer is like training to cultivate a state of forgiveness, humility, simplicity, acknowledgement of God, asking for protection...and for communing with God. It does not depend on a certain tone, upon using the breath a certain way, upon a certain way of repetition, etc. "Vibrations" are meaningless in comparison to the real change of heart that occurs through simple contemplation of its meaning.

 

That's my understanding of the Lord's Prayer also.

[Rishi Das]

Great thread. Thought it should be bumped back to the top.