Debunking Fake QiGong Power

[ChiDragon]

What is an energy work?

 

I didn't say there is no real masters, I said no masters open to public, at least I have never seen so far.

My practice is to apply the theory of Daoism into my daily life.

No one taught me, I learned by myself with the books.

I just read lots of books written by the immortals, and believe I got the idea of Dao.

在西方, "Energy work" 的意思是我們中國的「氣功」。　

 

"My practice is to apply the theory of Daoism into my daily life."

在這裡你的意思是什麼？　是個人哲學，還是氣功或是 "meditation"...???

 

希望以後你在言論上有更清楚和令人容易接受的交代。

Edited January 15, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Ish]

What is an energy work?

 

I didn't say there is no real masters, I said no masters open to public, at least I have never seen so far.

My practice is to apply the theory of Daoism into my daily life.

No one taught me, I learned by myself with the books.

I just read lots of books written by the immortals, and believe I got the idea of Dao.

 

How do you know the books were written by immortals? You could be spreading the "dao" of these cheaters you speak so much about.

Well probably not considering you never ACTUALLY give your way, just say everyone else is wrong.

[Bubbles]

So, you mean you regard the taoists texts as objective facts?

If you do, that is perfect.

So, can you give me the original text you mentioned here? To avoid your "trolling" same as me?

 

Yes Daoists texts are objective facts.

 

Actually there are several texts dealing with sexuality in the Canon. You can find some titles of them in the bibliography section (at the end of the book) of THIS BOOK. The texts found in the Canon are mentioned with TT for Tao tsang.

 

The one I had in mind is an alchemical text: Longhu jing 龍虎經

 

I assume you identify yourself as a Daoist. So you should consider these scriptures (經) as sacred.

 

I suggest you broaden the idea you have about Dao. Dao can't fit into an idea. Your idea about Dao limits your understanding and makes you arrogant, which is not a Daoist virtue.

Since you are in China, I also suggest you find a real Daoist teacher.

 

Goodbye

Edited January 15, 2012 by bubbles

[Jeramiah Zeitigeist]

I'm bored with Lao Tzu

 

I don't believe he is the real Lao Tzu at all.

 

I think he is a fake !

 

After all, surely the real Lao Tzu would understand Daoism ?

 

Or is that the greatest Daoist joke of them all ?

 

Verse 41;

 

"When the foolish man hears of the Dao, he laughs out loud. If he didn't laugh, it wouldn't be the Dao"

 

 

No, on second thoughts, Lao Tzu is a fake !

[dawei]

If he said something conficting with Dao in my opinion, can I think he is not a qigong master following Dao?

Fallacy of Composition

Are you trolling?

 

I pointed out what your argument is doing wrongly, based your comment. It is called Fallacy of Composition. You are taking one piece and deeming it incorrect, and then applying 'incorrect' (or fake) to the whole. Since you disagree with something he presents you disagree with everything about his being a Qigong master.

 

That is not trolling, that is clarifying where your argument is wrong. I just didn't think I would have to explain every last idea to you. The link was sufficient to understand my point.

[Lao Tzu]

Yes Daoists texts are objective facts.

 

Actually there are several texts dealing with sexuality in the Canon. You can find some titles of them in the bibliography section (at the end of the book) of THIS BOOK. The texts found in the Canon are mentioned with TT for Tao tsang.

 

The one I had in mind is an alchemical text: Longhu jing 龍虎經

 

I assume you identify yourself as a Daoist. So you should consider these scriptures (經) as sacred.

 

I suggest you broaden the idea you have about Dao. Dao can't fit into an idea. Your idea about Dao limits your understanding and makes you arrogant, which is not a Daoist virtue.

Since you are in China, I also suggest you find a real Daoist teacher.

 

Goodbye

Please give me the text, not the name of the book.

[Lao Tzu]

在西方, "Energy work" 的意思是我們中國的「氣功」。　

 

"My practice is to apply the theory of Daoism into my daily life."

在這裡你的意思是什麼？　是個人哲學，還是氣功或是 "meditation"...???

 

希望以後你在言論上有更清楚和令人容易接受的交代。

I was trying to make it clear and if you have questions, you can ask me like this.

 

可以说是哲学，但说道家哲学更合适吧？

其实其本质就是气功。如果你把meditation的意义扩大化的话，说meditation也不算错。

[Lao Tzu]

I pointed out what your argument is doing wrongly, based your comment. It is called Fallacy of Composition. You are taking one piece and deeming it incorrect, and then applying 'incorrect' (or fake) to the whole. Since you disagree with something he presents you disagree with everything about his being a Qigong master.

 

That is not trolling, that is clarifying where your argument is wrong. I just didn't think I would have to explain every last idea to you. The link was sufficient to understand my point.

I was not saying that I disagree with everything about him. But to be a real qigong master, he must be right in every major issues. Do you agree?

[Lao Tzu]

Yes Daoists texts are objective facts.

 

Actually there are several texts dealing with sexuality in the Canon. You can find some titles of them in the bibliography section (at the end of the book) of THIS BOOK. The texts found in the Canon are mentioned with TT for Tao tsang.

 

The one I had in mind is an alchemical text: Longhu jing 龍虎經

 

I assume you identify yourself as a Daoist. So you should consider these scriptures (經) as sacred.

 

I suggest you broaden the idea you have about Dao. Dao can't fit into an idea. Your idea about Dao limits your understanding and makes you arrogant, which is not a Daoist virtue.

Since you are in China, I also suggest you find a real Daoist teacher.

 

Goodbye

I have just reviewed Longhu jing, and saw nothing about sex.

[ChiDragon]

I was trying to make it clear and if you have questions, you can ask me like this.

 

可以说是哲学，但说道家哲学更合适吧？

其实其本质就是气功。如果你把meditation的意义扩大化的话，说meditation也不算错。

 

由你的個人意見, 是否可以給人們對 meditation 一個完滿和貼切的解釋？人們已對你的那種「一無兩可」的答覆已非常反感了！

 

By your own definition, what is meditation comprise of...??? In Chinese or English, but please don't make it too general. General statement does not get the point across and it is very annoying to the people here.

Edited January 15, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I was not saying that I disagree with everything about him. But to be a real qigong master, he must be right in every major issues. Do you agree?

Your point is:

"In taoism, one should ignore one's sexuality, not with an intention to enhance it."

 

Where is your supporting proof that this is to be ignored in Taoism? And on what basis is the judgement that a qigong master cannot mention this?

 

It seems your trying to completely define what anyone can do in Taoism based on the books your reading. That's like saying one can only rely on the bible for every understanding of God; Or the only the DDJ to understand Dao...

 

I think the problem is that your self-taught off books and JJ is someone who has been involved in and exposed to an incredibly wide net of ENERGY related fields for 40 years on an international basis to include martial arts, acupuncture, energy work, healing, medical qigong with emphasis on oncology, magic, etc. He is beyond 'Taoism'.

 

Some get stuck in it and have lots of rules they expect everyone to follow... even masters.

[Lao Tzu]

由你的個人意見, 是否可以給人們對 meditation 一個完滿和貼切的解釋？人們已對你的那種「一無兩可」的答覆已非常反感了！

 

By your own definition, what is meditation comprise of...??? In Chinese or English, but please don't make it too general. General statement does not get the point across and it is very annoying to the people here.

其实我个人的理解，一开始就表达了，就是静坐意守。

但这里很多人说不仅仅如此，我也就不得不适应大家的说法了。

 

At first, I thought that meditation is just sitting and focus mind on some points.

But later, some people here said that it is not complete, so I had to adjust it.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Lao Tzu

[Lao Tzu]

Your point is:

"In taoism, one should ignore one's sexuality, not with an intention to enhance it."

 

Where is your supporting proof that this is to be ignored in Taoism? And on what basis is the judgement that a qigong master cannot mention this?

 

In Taoism, desire should fade away, sex is kind of desire.

[dawei]

In Taoism, desire should fade away, sex is kind of desire.

Maybe to the uninitiated?

 

This reminds me of why I have never saw myself as pursuing Taoist ideas or Taoism. Someone wants to tell you their brand and expect to hold you to it.

 

John Chang is internationally known as an energy master. When he was asked if he was a Daoist, he emphatically said "NO". Yet the author of the first book on him subtitled the book concerning him as a "Taoist Immortal". It is this kind of bias about Taoism, that because one person feels they know something, they require everyone else to hold to it or to some title.

 

If one is holding to rules and titles, they are caught in the grips of the evolving 'ism' itself. They have lost sight of following Dao. If the extend of what you know about sex is what you say above, I think this explains enough. It is not that sex and desire should fade away... [but I feel you don't really care to listen what we have to say here anyways... so I'll drop it.]

[ChiDragon]

其实我个人的理解，一开始就表达了，就是静坐意守。

但这里很多人说不仅仅如此，我也就不得不适应大家的说法了。

 

At first, I thought that meditation is just sitting and focus mind on some points.

But later, some people here said that it is not complete, so I had to adjust it.

只是静坐意守？那麼氣功如何介入？你始終都沒有給人們一個詳細完滿的解釋！

 

You still have not given me the overall and complete extensive explanation of "meditation". How about for once , put something in one paragraph or two.

Edited January 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Lao Tzu]

只是静坐意守？那麼氣功如何介入？你始終都沒有給人們一個詳細完滿的解釋！

 

You still have not given me the overall and complete extensive explanation of "meditation". How about for once , put something in one paragraph or two.

Meditation 这个词是我来这才开始学习的，我也只是通过查英汉字典来理解这个词，所以关于这个词的定义，我没有发言权，因此我的解释也不重要，我也不知道确切的定义，我会根据西方人的理解去理解。

I learned the word meditation just here by dictionary.

so, my definition is not the point, I don't know what it is exactly, I will change my comprehension according to the definition of the west.

[ChiDragon]

Meditation 这个词是我来这才开始学习的，我也只是通过查英汉字典来理解这个词，所以关于这个词的定义，我没有发言权，因此我的解释也不重要，我也不知道确切的定义，我会根据西方人的理解去理解。

I learned the word meditation just here by dictionary.

so, my definition is not the point, I don't know what it is exactly, I will change my comprehension according to the definition of the west.

In that case, in your thread, how did you arrive to this conclusion...???

"Many ancient sages said that meditation is a bad way for pursue Dao."

 

Ref: Meditation is not a good way for practicing

Edited January 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Lao Tzu]

In that case, in your thread, how did you arrive to this conclusion...???

"Many ancient sages said that meditation is a bad way for pursue Dao."

 

Ref: Meditation is not a good way for practicing

When I said that, I regarded meditation as sitting and focusing mind on certain body points.

 

"sitting and focusing mind on certain body points." is not a good way for the Way. You don't agree?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Lao Tzu

[ChiDragon]

When I said that, I regarded meditation as sitting and focusing mind on certain body points.

 

"sitting and focusing mind on certain body points." is not a good way for the Way. You don't agree?

I would like to understand what that means, first, before I can agree...

 

I don't see how focusing mind on certain body points could cause problems. I can see sitting on certain body points may have caused problems, but so far there was no complaint about sitting at a lotus position causing problems. I have read something like that the legs may become numb but they will be OK afterward when one is back on the feet again.

[Lao Tzu]

I would like to understand what that means, first, before I can agree...

 

I don't see how focusing mind on certain body points could cause problems. I can see sitting on certain body points may have caused problems, but so far there was no complaint about sitting at a lotus position causing problems. I have read something like that the legs may become numb but they will be OK afterward when one is back on the feet again.

I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way.

[dawei]

I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way.

Based on this, you would also say that Mantak Chia is not a master either...

[Jetsun]

I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way.

 

Ancient Taoists used to say that a "real" man was one who was conscious of their entire body all of the time, but the modern man is so unconscious that they barely even know that they are hungry let alone are aware of the different rhythms and tensions which move through the body throughout the day.

 

How do you become a "real" man without putting your mind on the different parts of your body? They say there is an entire universe in your body but if you do not make your body conscious how are you ever going to be aware of that?

[Bubbles]

I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way.

 

You should study more history of your own country and the specific meditation techniques Ancient Chinese used, like in the Maoshan Taoist tradition.HERE

 

In the meantime, you should stop posting fallacies for a while, because you are becoming ridiculous. This hurts me to see how difficult it must be for you to be so ignorant while claiming to know it better than everyone else. You are loosing face. Please retire before it is too late.

Edited January 16, 2012 by bubbles

[Lao Tzu]

Ancient Taoists used to say that a "real" man was one who was conscious of their entire body all of the time,

Where and how did you get this idea?

[ChiDragon]

I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way.

 

I still don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Edited January 16, 2012 by ChiDragon