Debunking Fake QiGong Power

[Jetsun]

Where and how did you get this idea?

 

Through reading books written by the immortals in many different traditions not just Taoism and through my own experiments over many years.

 

How are you going to harmonise your mind, emotions and body without letting go of the blocks and tensions in the body? how are you going to let go of the tensions in the body without making them conscious?

 

"What you cannot learn in your own body, you can learn nowhere else" - the Upanishads

Edited January 16, 2012 by Jetsun

[Bubbles]

I have just reviewed Longhu jing, and saw nothing about sex.

 

This is because you don't know the meanings of the trigrams, and probably you have to study more Yijing. There are different layers of meaning in alchemical texts. To fully understand, you have to work on the text, on yourself, and preferably with a legit teacher, all three requirements that you still have to meet.

Edited January 16, 2012 by bubbles

[Lao Tzu]

Through reading books written by the immortals

Can you just give me some names of the books?

[Lao Tzu]

I still don't understand what you are trying to say here.

I can say it in chinese: 这不是一个求道（或者说练气功，内丹）的好方法。

[Lao Tzu]

This is because you don't know the meanings of the trigrams, and probably you have to study more Yijing. There are different layers of meaning in alchemical texts. To fully understand, you have to work on the text, on yourself, and preferably with a legit teacher, all three requirement that you still have to meet.

Are you a chinese?

Can you understand Yijing?

[Bubbles]

Are you a chinese?

Can you understand Yijing?

 

Will you consider taking into account the answers we give to your questions before asking new ones or will you continue avoiding to face the plain truth of your ignorance?

 

Why are you the only one here who does not give the grounds of his affirmations while asking others to do it?

[Lao Tzu]

Will you consider taking into account the answers we give to your questions before asking new ones or will you continue avoiding to face the plain truth of your ignorance?

 

Why are you the only one here who does not give the grounds of his affirmations while asking others to do it?

You can ask me the same questions, and I will answer them.

I didn't ask him about the exact texts, because I know it is difficult to do.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Lao Tzu

[Jetsun]

Can you just give me some names of the books?

 

Just about all the sacred texts contain the idea that man's body is a microcosm of the universe, so you can understand the universe by studying the body and you can understand the body by studying the universe, how are you supposed to go about this without putting your mind on the different parts of the body?

 

I already quoted one book which talks about this. How do you think people originally worked out the acupuncture points and wrote texts like the 'Yellow Emperors Inner Cannon' without making the body completely conscious? how do you make the body conscious without putting the mind on the different parts of the body? which is a practice you think is worthless for attaining the way.

[Bubbles]

You can ask me the same questions, and I will answer them.

I didn't ask him about the exact texts, because I know it is difficult to do.

 

There are numerous points where you did not give your grounds.I will only take the two last important I have in mind.

 

1.You wrote : "I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way."

 

Where did you find this idea?

How can you prove that others traditions WITHIN Taoism (like the Mao-shan, see post#123 of this thread) are wrong ?

 

2.You wrote: "In Taoism, desire should fade away, sex is kind of desire."

This a only current within Taoism. Don't you know that? Have you seen the references at the end of the book I mentioned in post #103?

Where did you see that sex is a kind of desire? Don't you know that one can have sex without desire?

[Protector]

Lao Tzu do something for me please

Using any book written by the immortals as an example show an example of an immortal following the Dao

You can write it down in Chinese if it helps

[Lao Tzu]

Lao Tzu do something for me please

Using any book written by the immortals as an example show an example of an immortal following the Dao

You can write it down in Chinese if it helps

Lao Zi, Chen Tuan, Wang Chongyang, Zhang Daoling, Lv dongbin, Liu haichan, Zhang sanfeng, etc.

[Lao Tzu]

Just about all the sacred texts contain the idea that man's body is a microcosm of the universe, so you can understand the universe by studying the body and you can understand the body by studying the universe, how are you supposed to go about this without putting your mind on the different parts of the body?

 

I already quoted one book which talks about this. How do you think people originally worked out the acupuncture points and wrote texts like the 'Yellow Emperors Inner Cannon' without making the body completely conscious? how do you make the body conscious without putting the mind on the different parts of the body? which is a practice you think is worthless for attaining the way.

The idea is right.

But it doesn't mean you must focus on your body. You should "focus" on the Tao. Tao is kind of Wuwei.

[Lao Tzu]

There are numerous points where you did not give your grounds.I will only take the two last important I have in mind.

1.You wrote : "I mean focus you mind on some point of your body, or imagine something. That is not a good way for the Way."

Where did you find this idea?

How can you prove that others traditions WITHIN Taoism (like the Mao-shan, see post#123 of this thread) are wrong ?

2.You wrote: "In Taoism, desire should fade away, sex is kind of desire."

This a only current within Taoism. Don't you know that? Have you seen the references at the end of the book I mentioned in post #103?

Where did you see that sex is a kind of desire? Don't you know that one can have sex without desire?

1. The books. To prove is difficult, because how can you imagine I can prove it? It is all about oneself's thinking and experiences.

2.I do not know. I just see it and generally speaking, I do not trust any book written by the modern people.

sex is a kind of desire, "I" think that is a common sense. I don't know one can have sex without desire. In that case, how can one erect?

[konchog uma]

The idea is right.

But it doesn't mean you must focus on your body. You should "focus" on the Tao. Tao is kind of Wuwei.

 

my body is a manifestation of dao.

 

beware anyone who speaks about what dao is.

[Lao Tzu]

my body is a manifestation of dao.

Yes, it is right.

But, your body is not dao itself.

[Protector]

Lao Zi, Chen Tuan, Wang Chongyang, Zhang Daoling, Lv dongbin, Liu haichan, Zhang sanfeng, etc.

 

I don't mean the names, I meant what is in the books

The stuff that you read

[konchog uma]

Yes, it is right.

But, your body is not dao itself.

 

neither is dao

 

dao isn't anything that can be talked about simply like you are trying to do

 

and my body is a microcosm of the earth, the galaxy, all the way up the chain to the infinite all, so why shouldn't i put my focus on it. Its holy.

Edited January 16, 2012 by anamatva

[Lao Tzu]

I don't mean the names, I meant what is in the books

The stuff that you read

I can give you some name of the books, and you can search through google. But I do not know if there are English versions for them.

I can not give you the exact texts, I do not have time to review and find the text I want.

悟真篇，无根树，金刚经，心经，清静经，金丹四百字，洗髓经，南华经，百字铭 等

[konchog uma]

Lao Zi, Chen Tuan, Wang Chongyang, Zhang Daoling, Lv dongbin, Liu haichan, Zhang sanfeng, etc.

 

 

 

i'm not sure you're aware that half the people on your list were internal alchemists, ie meditators

 

and how are martial arts dao if meditation isn't? didn't chen tuan invent water boxing?

[Bubbles]

1. The books. To prove is difficult, because how can you imagine I can prove it? It is all about oneself's thinking and experiences.

2.I do not know. I just see it and generally speaking, I do not trust any book written by the modern people.

sex is a kind of desire, "I" think that is a common sense. I don't know one can have sex without desire. In that case, how can one erect?

 

Ok, thanks for trying to answer.

 

You have listed some Immortals responding to Sinfest. You know, these immortals had quite different teachings and created different lineages. For some, celibacy was required, for others, sex was not a problem. For some visualizations while meditating were not good practices, for others it could be good.

 

You, Lao Tzu, can't say that you know that this or that is bad practice when it comes to Taoism because you can find almost everything in Taoism, taught by Immortals, included practices that you find bad.

Do you know more than some Immortals?

 

If you can see and admit that your preference is just YOUR preference, YOUR personal way of practicing Taoism and not a general truth about Taoism, then there is no trolling, no problem with your presence here.

 

If on the contrary, you keep on saying that others are wrong because they don't practice as YOU do, then there is a problem because some people here, me or another one, will find a classic text of Taoism that will contradict your saying. And you will have nothing to respond. You will say like above "To prove is difficult, because how can you imagine I can prove it? It is all about oneself's thinking and experiences."

So you have to see that you don't hold the truth about Taoism. Taoism includes different people, with different experiences and different practices. This is what the lives of Immortals tell us.

 

As you can see we are now at post n° #145 for nothing constructive.

 

I will stop my contribution to this thread here. I sincerely hope you will find a way of being here at Tao bums without claiming that people here are misleaded because they don't have the same views as you. Taoism is about tolerance towards the ten thousands things.

Not everyone here identifies himself/herself as a follower of the Dao, please let them in peace. Don't insult them.

 

Some people here are Taoists following the Way within a diffrent Taoist tradition from yours. Please let them in peace, don't insult them with your Fake master/fake practice obsession. Follow your way, and let people follow theirs.

 

 

Be well, Lao Tzu

Edited January 16, 2012 by bubbles

[Protector]

I can give you some name of the books, and you can search through google. But I do not know if there are English versions for them.

I can not give you the exact texts, I do not have time to review and find the text I want.

悟真篇,无根树,金刚经,心经,清静经,金丹四百字,洗髓经,南华经,百字铭 等

 

I can read the books but I still wont come to the same conclusion you did, I can't read your mind

You've read these books and understood them one way

Others read these books and they invented qi gong and meditations with them

I need your words, even if they were not originally written by you.

When you say them, they will have a different meaning and we will understand what you're trying to say.

 

But maybe you've said enough

If you need time to find example of immortals following Dao, then you can't just look in a book and find it. If you can't find it by opening any page at random, that means you think that there are times immortals don't follow Dao.

 

The important yes or no question is, do you think there are times when immortals don't follow Dao?

[Lao Tzu]

i'm not sure you're aware that half the people on your list were internal alchemists, ie meditators

 

and how are martial arts dao if meditation isn't? didn't chen tuan invent water boxing?

maybe some of them did meditation. But as I said before, one can meditate under the instruction of an immortal.

Wuwei.

I dont know what is water boxing.

[konchog uma]

maybe some of them did meditation. But as I said before, one can meditate under the instruction of an immortal.

Wuwei.

I dont know what is water boxing.

 

how cute.

 

maybe some of them did.

 

look, when you say there are no open qigong masters, you insult my master. When you say there is no meditation in the true dao, you insult my practice. I am not actually insulted, largely because i know better. But it is not rewarding at all talking to you or reading the things you write. Its a bore actually, so like bubbles, i am done with this thread, and i hope, with talking to you at all until you realize that your way is only good for one person. you. So if you don't know any immortals to study under, don't meditate. Don't push your dogma on others is a wise suggestion. I benefit greatly from meditation, so i know you're wrong by experience. I study under a master who has demonstrated his qigong proficiency, so again I know you are wrong by my own experience. Simple.

[ChiDragon]

i'm not sure you're aware that half the people on your list were internal alchemists, ie meditators

 

and how are martial arts dao if meditation isn't? didn't chen tuan invent water boxing?

No, he invented this.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTY2NDgzMg==.html

[Dainin]

Over two thousand years in the mountains, and these threads are what you have brought down? Maybe you should go back up and try again...