Different groups in the Understanding of Chi Kung

[ChiDragon]

The problem is if you expect a result and it doesn't arrive then it produces stress or discouragement. If you have no or few expectations then whatever arrives is a bonus or a gift.

 

That may be the case, but practicing requires patience to withstand the endurance. One without patience will produce stress or discouragement. Thus, it is the impatience that might cause the expected result that doesn't arrive. One must have a goal in doing something. Otherwise, how does one know what kind of result that one might be expected...???

[dawei]

I would agree if someone has expectations or impatiences they can get let down... but for me the point is to not have either. And for that reason, have no goal. Then the results are endless and not of concern. If such things are a concern, one is certainly not following nature but a human endeavor.

[ChiDragon]

Ok, I'm back in camp 2:-)

 

What does that mean Chi D?

 

2. Intermediate: People who know that Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing.

 

I was told when I practice Chi Kung, I was breathing in the Chi in the air. Then, the Chi run inside my body which will make me healthy.

 

I can just believe that and start practicing Chi Kung. If I don't understand what it is, then I would be just practicing it blindly.

 

I was always wondering what "Chi" meant. Period. So, I've made a research to find all the possible meanings. To get the true meaning, I must unlearn what I had learnt in the past and kept an open mind and investigate all the possible meanings objectively. The true meanings of Chi must be considered within context, otherwise, its meaning would be ten thousand miles away due to a misinterpretation.

 

 

My source says, the character 氣(Chi) outside the body is "air"; and inside the body is the "functional activities" of the internal organs. Chi in 氣功(Chi Kung) means "breathing"; and Chi Kung is the Ultimate Method of Breathing.

 

Based on modern science, it would make more sense to me if I interpret it this way. I breathe the air into my body to provide oxygen for the body cells to function. It is because the body cells need oxygen to decompose the glucose to produce the bio-energy, ATP, for the body to function holistically. If one want to think Chi as energy, ATP is it.

 

If people would like to think Chi as energy, it is true only if one think of it indirectly it was from the air. There is a changing process inside the body to convert Chi(air) into Chi(energy). Thus the modern science has a very good explanation about cell respiration showing how the Chi(bio-energy) was produced.

 

Do you see how Chi was interpreted in the context...??? If only one definition was assigned to Chi as energy, then everything was interpreting with that meaning would be a chaos. Therefore, to avoid being believing and practice something blindly, I must understand and use the correct terminology for my explanation. If I know that oxygen was provided by breathing for a better health, it makes lots of sense to me that by practicing Chi Kung will enhance the function of my body. From my experience and believing in Tai Chi and Chi Kung, indeed, they do.

Edited January 22, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Protector]

TEAM ONE! TEAM ONE! WHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[Birch]

Hmm, I though the 'gong' or 'kung' in 'qi-gong' or 'chi-kung' was both the action and the result. Sort of like hard-work both requires energy and intent and (probably a bunch of other stuff) produces AND produces results.

 

There's this silly old zen story (I think) that for each moment you are acting without concern for or stemming from 'ego' then you are enlightened. I like to think of gongs that way. I think the impulse to practice might come from a belief or a desire or a way to change something, but seriously, how long is it before your initial impluse or desire gives way? And what does it give way to? I could say 'without qi-gong I would be in a lesser state, if I didn't breathe well, well I've shortened my life and the quality of my life'. But here's the weird part. As far as I know, no practitioner of qi-gong was saying that to themselves to begin with. ' Oh hey, I realise I'm breathing like shit and it will likely shorten my life".

[zerostao]

"As far as I know, no practitioner of qi-gong was saying that to themselves to begin with. ' Oh hey, I realise I'm breathing like shit and it will likely shorten my life".

hmmm, maybe not exactly like that. it was more like i thought i was about to breathe my last dying breath. i have already posted about that twice. there is no doubt about it - qigong saved my health (life)

[dwai]

<br>From my sense of intuition, there are four groups of people who understand Chi Kung differently.<br>1. Beliefs: People just know the general knowledge based on what they were told to believe.<br>2. Intermediate: People who know that Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing.<br>3. Advance: People who like to understand more by linking modern science to Chi Kung.<br>4. People who advance modern science/arts through qi-gong.<br><br>Please give your honest opinion. Thanks...<img src="http://www.thetaobums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br>

<br><br><br>5. People who have reached a level of practice that they realize that the breath is not that important...it is the energy that moves on its own <img src="http://www.thetaobums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt="">. They also realize that obsessing with phenomenal things such as "science" through qi-gong is a waste of time. They'd rather focus on being in the Way...<br><br> Edited January 23, 2012 by dwai

[dwai]

2. Intermediate: People who know that Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing.

 

I was told when I practice Chi Kung, I was breathing in the Chi in the air. Then, the Chi run inside my body which will make me healthy.

 

I can just believe that and start practicing Chi Kung. If I don't understand what it is, then I would be just practicing it blindly.

 

I was always wondering what "Chi" meant. Period. So, I've made a research to find all the possible meanings. To get the true meaning, I must unlearn what I had learnt in the past and kept an open mind and investigate all the possible meanings objectively. The true meanings of Chi must be considered within context, otherwise, its meaning would be ten thousand miles away due to a misinterpretation.

 

 

My source says, the character 氣(Chi) outside the body is "air"; and inside the body is the "functional activities" of the internal organs. Chi in 氣功(Chi Kung) means "breathing"; and Chi Kung is the Ultimate Method of Breathing.

 

Based on modern science, it would make more sense to me if I interpret it this way. I breathe the air into my body to provide oxygen for the body cells to function. It is because the body cells need oxygen to decompose the glucose to produce the bio-energy, ATP, for the body to function holistically. If one want to think Chi as energy, ATP is it.

 

If people would like to think Chi as energy, it is true only if one think of it indirectly it was from the air. There is a changing process inside the body to convert Chi(air) into Chi(energy). Thus the modern science has a very good explanation about cell respiration showing how the Chi(bio-energy) was produced.

 

Do you see how Chi was interpreted in the context...??? If only one definition was assigned to Chi as energy, then everything was interpreting with that meaning would be a chaos. Therefore, to avoid being believing and practice something blindly, I must understand and use the correct terminology for my explanation. If I know that oxygen was provided by breathing for a better health, it makes lots of sense to me that by practicing Chi Kung will enhance the function of my body. From my experience and believing in Tai Chi and Chi Kung, indeed, they do.

 

 

Well experience shows that Chi is its own form of energy and is that which animates us. It can be felt, cultivated and expressed. I don't think it can be measured effectively...because we mistakenly look for something "else" that fits into one of our nice "scientific" categories. it is up to the individual whether they want to waste time trying to help "science" progress or develop their own self. I fall in the category of "Science and Chi don't' go together" (they aren't mutually exclusive but they are in different domains).

 

 

[ChiDragon]

Hmm, I though the 'gong' or 'kung' in 'qi-gong' or 'chi-kung' was both the action and the result. Sort of like hard-work both requires energy and intent and (probably a bunch of other stuff) produces AND produces results.

 

Your thinking is correct but the approach was slightly off. The "Kung" in "Chi Kung" is different from the result as the way you have described.

 

The character 功(kung) that we are talking about, here, has three meanings.

1. 氣功: Chi Kung

2. 功能: kung neng2: Function

3. 功效: kung xiao4: Efficacy

 

1. 氣功(Chi Kung), the whole term is a noun; practicing the ultimate method of breathing is the action

 

2. Chi Kung enhances the function(功能) of the internal organs which is the result of the action.

 

3. Enhancing the function(功能) of the internal organs is the efficacy(功效) of Chi Kung(氣功).

 

There is a fallacy in this thought:

"Sort of like hard-work both requires energy and intent and (probably a bunch of other stuff) produces AND produces results."

 

Let me rephrase:

The sort of like hard-work requires intent to practice Chi Kung to produce energy as a result.

[ChiDragon]

1. People who have reached a level of practice that they realize that the breath is not that important...it is the energy that moves on its own <img src="http://www.thetaobums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt="">.

 

2. They also realize that obsessing with phenomenal things such as "science" through qi-gong is a waste of time. They'd rather focus on being in the Way...<br><br>

 

1. Yes, some people claimed that they don't even need to breathe at that level. Unless, you are an immortal, otherwise you will be dead in no time. Please read some scientific facts about hypoxia, the lack of oxygen.

 

2. IMMHO You had put yourself into Group 1.

Edited January 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

 

1. There's this silly old zen story (I think) that for each moment you are acting without concern for or stemming from 'ego' then you are enlightened. I like to think of gongs that way. I think the impulse to practice might come from a belief or a desire or a way to change something, but seriously, how long is it before your initial impulse or desire gives way?

 

2. And what does it give way to? I could say 'without qi-gong I would be in a lesser state, if I didn't breathe well, well I've shortened my life and the quality of my life'. But here's the weird part. As far as I know, no practitioner of qi-gong was saying that to themselves to begin with. ' Oh hey, I realise I'm breathing like shit and it will likely shorten my life".

 

1. As soon as one looses interest and patience.

 

2. Chi Kung practitioners do not breathe like shit; but they do breathe slowly and well-circulated the breath(Chi) deep down toward the dan tian to lengthen their lives.

Edited January 23, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dwai]

1. Yes, some people claimed that they don't even need to breathe at that level. Unless, you are an immortal, otherwise you will be dead in no time. Please read some scientific facts about hypoxia, the lack of oxygen.

 

2. IMMHO You had put yourself into Group 1.

 

You misunderstood. I was implying to the fact that after a certain point, using the Breath to move the Qi is "dropped". It is just another prop, a beginning level prop from what I gather...

Edited January 23, 2012 by dwai

[ChiDragon]

You misunderstood. I was implying to the fact that after a certain point, using the Breath to move the Qi is "dropped". It is just another prop, a beginning level prop from what I gather...

I knew exactly what you meant. So, that was what I had been told and read.... However, it is still not my belief.

[Birch]

1. As soon as one looses interest and patience.

 

2. Chi Kung practitioners do not breathe like shit; but they do breathe slowly and well-circulated the breath(Chi) deep down toward the dan tian to lengthen their lives.

Hmm, now I'm not sure i explained properly because your answers don't correspond to my questions/ponderings.

Plus you put numbers on them. I don't think that's a good idea because I didn't put numbers on them.

 

Anyway. I had yet another experience of 'belief' having little to do with what works in qi-gong today. I'm sure there are lots of technical/physical relationships between breath,mind,emotions,health,actions etc. To get to a place of understanding such IMO/IME you have to be a practitioner. OR, you can listen to practitioners and figure out from what they're saying whether there is a pattern or patterns going on.

[Birch]

Hi K,

 

I read with interest your post... but not sure where it is going.. that is ok. We have a kindred spirit to exchange thoughts.

 

Once there is a 'break', I now truly feel for the person who has this. But the break may be slight or not severe. In my case, it is dislodged and expected and cannot be simply relocated. There is heavy discussion I could relate to this but I'll close for now. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts.

 

Ok! If i have any more they will be on the bone-healing thread.