Bone Healing

[Ya Mu]

Healing of bones is a technique common to several medical qigong traditions.

Most in the west find this difficult to believe until they have it done personally.

My clinical results over a 35 year period demonstrated a very high result in acceleration of the bones knitting back together and always immediately gave pain relief to the client. The acceleration of healing was difficult for the orthopedic doctors to wrap their head around. They just shook their heads in amazement. But for practitioners familiar with the techniques utilized in the hospitals of China, we find this to be just another day at the clinic.

Discuss

[dawei]

Bone healing and bone setting [movement] are two issues. Both are viable but western medicine seems to dismiss it.

 

I found an advanced side of bone setting; the attempt to move bone back to it's position to re-connect. To be honest, this is not Qigong or energy. So this means there are really three aspects to 'bone complications', which I think the qigong practitioner should be aware of.

1. Bone needs repair and healing... it is in place.

2. Bone is re-connected and healing... it is in place and in need of healing.

3. Bone is dis-connected and cannot be replaced...

 

We should probably define all three aspects more clearly and how Qigong can assist them.

[Friend]

Edited January 22, 2012 by Friend

[doc benway]

Can you share any references that support this other than anecdotal evidence?

Since fracture healing is relatively easy to measure by physical exam and X-ray, it should be very easy to design a randomized, controlled trial and document this with solid data.

 

Thanks

[Aetherous]

I once heard of the bone healing process taking just a couple of hours, with the help of spirits. Complete break, and complete renewal. Of course this is just a story.

 

It seems that medical qigong could be VERY useful...even Western doctors have realized the importance of subtle energies in regards to bone healing. I've read of early experiments where they wrapped a power cord around the extremity, and that helped speed up the process. They also have bone stimulators these days, which patients can rent out...pretty expensive. Sorry I'm too lazy to look up links for this stuff.

 

This is a healing method in many traditions, maybe it should be in general discussion?

[Trunk]

Healing of bones is a technique common to several medical qigong traditions.

Curious what sort of qigong/s is used for bone therapy?

[zerostao]

for me qigong is a remakable tool that some of us have the very good fortune to use and to enjoy.

and i would expect that there would be taoist, medical, and shaolin qigongs especially for healing bones.

even boy scouts are instructed on how to treat a broken bone out in the wilderness.

if re-alligning , make sure there is no pressure on the bone.

i am not a MD, so please over look a lay person making a few points, i am sure i am not 100% accurate about this. but here goes.

the healthy human body is also remarkable in its naturalness and effectiveness in healing bones.

when the bone is fractured , the body immediately starts the process of healing.

ruptured blood vessels gather at the break and form a clot. this clot contains reconnective tissue cells and produces collagen.

this fast forming clot has already laid the foundation for the complete restoration of the bone.

in a matter of a very few days the fractured bone has produced new blood vessels and begins to clean up the break.

the connective tissue is multiplying and producing collagen forming a matrix where the original clot had formed.

after this, some (as much as needed) repairing cells produce cartilage and uncalcified bone and these begin to fuse the bone back together. then the bone becomes more compact and is pretty much healed.

so in the case of a broken bone to a healthy person imo the natural response of the body will do the work.

 

i am very much interested in any qigongs that would address another area of bone health.

when we age what will keep the bones strong and healthy. what will keep our marrow young and healthy.

can we keep it more red than yellow?

i have heard that some elderly folks use marrow instead of jing for more qi circulation.

is this a wise choice?

i do have some knowledge of herb use to adress these issues.

[Birch]

Good post ZT!

 

Yeah the marrow thing. Doesn't sound like an excellent idea off the bat. If you're leeching off your own marrow. But then I don't understand how marrow gets formed in the first place. Would be ok to leech off it if you were able to keep making the stuff in unlimited amounts I suppose. But purely speculating:-)

Oh, and would the old people just have to switch anyway because the jing source is dry? Then they try that leching off of young people thing

 

More speculation

[joeblast]

Vibration is where it's at The piezoelectric properties of bone enhance the healing - so whether it is higher or lower frequency it will have an effect. So aside from qigong there's plenty of other good tools that can also aid, sometimes in tandem - I have a soloflex wbv and do standing on it - its nice how still the ground feels after doing horse stance on that thing

 

Or tuning forks, singing bowls...

 

[Ya Mu]

Bone healing and bone setting [movement] are two issues. Both are viable but western medicine seems to dismiss it.

 

I found an advanced side of bone setting; the attempt to move bone back to it's position to re-connect. To be honest, this is not Qigong or energy. So this means there are really three aspects to 'bone complications', which I think the qigong practitioner should be aware of.

1. Bone needs repair and healing... it is in place.

2. Bone is re-connected and healing... it is in place and in need of healing.

3. Bone is dis-connected and cannot be replaced...

 

We should probably define all three aspects more clearly and how Qigong can assist them.

Yes these are separate techniques, but we certainly can discuss it.

I learned bone setting first and spent a good 15 years pursuing this study. Both osteopathic and Chinese Tui Na techniques (anyone who thinks Tui Na is just massage just hasn't looked into it deeply).

 

In the USA we seem to be fixated on chiropractic as the bone manipulation method of the masses. (and Dawei feel free to repost what you said in the other thread about this). But the truth is the old school osteopathic techniques and the Chinese techniques were far more refined as they took into account the muscular structure surrounding the bone. My problem appeared when I made the decision not to pursue medical school (I had been fulfilling and completed all the prior coursework) - woops, now I had wasted 15 years learning advanced manipulation and it wasn't in the scope of my practice. Or had I? Concurrently during this time period I had been studying medical qigong (which was the full reason I decided to nix medical school after taking all the prior coursework)[note: anyone who has read my book, here is when the Lakota medicine man asked me "Why do you wish to go backwards?"] and began to integrate the medical qigong, Cherokee medicine (which ALSO included bone setting utilizing energy), and Chinese Tui Na.

 

When I mastered the advanced medical qigong, I finally saw the Light at the end of the tunnel - the whole key was to use the energetics instead of the purely physical manipulation. So what I did was turn all the Chinese and Osteopathic techniques combined with medical qigong techniques (turned out the Cherokee medicine and the advanced medical qigong were just about the same)into techniques that could be utilized within the scope of practice of massage therapy.

 

The bone healing I teach is as was taught at the Baoding Qigong Healing Hospital, with more advanced techniques taught to me later one-on-one by Master Wang Juemin. These are advanced medical qigong techniques that work and work very well. My students are having the same results as I did. I semi-retired from clinic work last year after a very long successful career. I now pursue teaching this to as many people as I can.

 

A long post to be sure as I am teaching neigong class and shooting video today of the Taoist Medicine techniques and may not be able to post again today.

 

...

When Bone healing is such normal thing, what is then able but really difficult in the healing?

Not exactly sure what you are asking but when I say just another day in clinic and say that it is relatively easy I am referring to the fact that this is just another tool in our toolbox when operating a medical qigong clinic. There are some gotcha's. The background study in order to be able to do this is quite time consuming. The ongoing required practice of 3 hr per day of Stillness-Movement is not to be taken lightly.

 

Can you share any references that support this other than anecdotal evidence?

Since fracture healing is relatively easy to measure by physical exam and X-ray, it should be very easy to design a randomized, controlled trial and document this with solid data.

 

Thanks

Sure.

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/search.php?search_str=bone+healing

Some of these may or may not refer directly to healing bone, but this is a good start. Try also entering in different search terms of "bone", like bone fractures, etc.

 

Here in the USA the problem is always time & money. Try getting an orthopedic specialist to commit to participating in a study. I used to try this and finally gave up. The cost of such a study would have to be subsidized by someone. Good luck in anyone finding such a someone. I used to try to do this and gave up. For the most part the western medical profession is simply not interested. For one, it sounds too fantastical to their way of thinking. And there is the fact that they are simply too busy. Anyone familiar with a western physician's clinic schedule realizes that the system to which they are a slave has them overworked trying to keep up with patients. Most work for a larger system which requires that they see over a certain number of patients a day. Insane, but that is the way it is until such a time as the current medical system comes tumbling down. In my opinion this is inevitable.

 

I once heard of the bone healing process taking just a couple of hours, with the help of spirits. Complete break, and complete renewal. Of course this is just a story.

 

It seems that medical qigong could be VERY useful...even Western doctors have realized the importance of subtle energies in regards to bone healing. I've read of early experiments where they wrapped a power cord around the extremity, and that helped speed up the process. They also have bone stimulators these days, which patients can rent out...pretty expensive. Sorry I'm too lazy to look up links for this stuff.

 

This is a healing method in many traditions, maybe it should be in general discussion?

Yes many traditions do this. I posted in Taoist as that is the main aspect of what I teach.

 

But mainly what I found is that all the approaches were very similar. For instance the advanced Cherokee medicine technique was almost identical to the advanced medical qigong technique.

 

One comment about using Spirits to do this. Yes, this was the old way of the shaman. But as advanced spiritual Beings of Light the way of spiritual growth for us is to learn to do the same thing oneself. After all, the ascended Beings of Light have other things to do instead of being at one's beck and call.

 

Curious what sort of qigong/s is used for bone therapy?

See above.

[mewtwo]

vibration you serious? is there any hard scientific data to back up the claim of vibration?

 

 

Qigong Also i just cant see it healing bones, in my estimation it is a great preventative medicine but nothing beats a western doctor if you are having a heart attack ect.

 

On that qigong site i did not see any sources sitted ect of the people and there studies.

Edited January 22, 2012 by mewtwo

[dawei]

In the USA we seem to be fixated on chiropractic as the bone manipulation method of the masses. (and Dawei feel free to repost what you said in the other thread about this). But the truth is the old school osteopathic techniques and the Chinese techniques were far more refined as they took into account the muscular structure surrounding the bone.

Yes. The bone-setter I meet emphasized this: the tendon and muscle are the focal point concerning moving bone.

 

When I mastered the advanced medical qigong, I finally saw the Light at the end of the tunnel - the whole key was to use the energetics instead of the purely physical manipulation. So what I did was turn all the Chinese and Osteopathic techniques combined with medical qigong techniques (turned out the Cherokee medicine and the advanced medical qigong were just about the same)into techniques that could be utilized within the scope of practice of massage therapy.

Yes, I think the problem is that both sides tend to ignore the other. In some situations they complement as the most powerful tool... but it is not common to find it.

 

For the most part the western medical profession is simply not interested. For one, it sounds too fantastical to their way of thinking. And there is the fact that they are simply too busy. Anyone familiar with a western physician's clinic schedule realizes that the system to which they are a slave has them overworked trying to keep up with patients. Most work for a larger system which requires that they see over a certain number of patients a day. Insane, but that is the way it is until such a time as the current medical system comes tumbling down. In my opinion this is inevitable.

We're lucky that some like you will spend many years to learn an ancient technique, improve on it with modern understanding and teach others.

[joeblast]

vibration you serious? is there any hard scientific data to back up the claim of vibration?

what do you think astronauts use to maintain their bone density during extended time in orbit? something just like the soloflex wbv that I mentioned

[dawei]

vibration you serious? is there any hard scientific data to back up the claim of vibration?

Qi is vibrational energy. Realize the arms and legs are shaped like tuning forks.

 

The issue here may be that Qigong and Medical Qigong can be very far apart in understanding and practice. But Qi is vibrational energies as found in minerals, plants, animals, humans, and the Unity.

 

Maybe Qi is not portrayed so much as a vibration in general Qigong practice but in Medical Qigong, you develop not just an awareness and development of this but can employ it at a deeper level. I only have a little experience in this. I am sure Ya Mu can comment much more as needed.

[doc benway]

 

Sure.

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/search.php?search_str=bone+healing

Some of these may or may not refer directly to healing bone, but this is a good start. Try also entering in different search terms of "bone", like bone fractures, etc.

 

Here in the USA the problem is always time & money. Try getting an orthopedic specialist to commit to participating in a study. I used to try this and finally gave up. The cost of such a study would have to be subsidized by someone. Good luck in anyone finding such a someone. I used to try to do this and gave up. For the most part the western medical profession is simply not interested. For one, it sounds too fantastical to their way of thinking. And there is the fact that they are simply too busy. Anyone familiar with a western physician's clinic schedule realizes that the system to which they are a slave has them overworked trying to keep up with patients. Most work for a larger system which requires that they see over a certain number of patients a day. Insane, but that is the way it is until such a time as the current medical system comes tumbling down. In my opinion this is inevitable.

 

Unfortunately, not a single study about clinical bone healing in that list, or anywhere else I've looked. There is one study in that list discussing pathologic changes in bone in rabbits in which they created fractures and looked at the healing bone in sacrificed animals with and without Qigong but there's not enough raw data there to really reach any conclusions.

 

Actually, complementary medicine is very popular right now in many major university hospitals. This is also the place where it is possible to get funding and interest in research. The residents, interns, and medical students are always looking for a project and it's relatively easy to get a supervising faculty member. As far as the "western medical profession" being "not interested" that's no longer the case. There is a very strong push for integration of complementary practices. It's widespread among primary care physicians and very well represented in the universities and growing steadily. Some major universities with such programs are University of Maryland, University of Colorado, Thomas Jefferson, Columbia, University of Wisconsin, Robert Wood Johnson,... the list goes on and on.

 

The time it takes to do the treatments you describe certainly wouldn't fit into a Western physician's schedule but it would be very easy to refer to qualified Qigong practitioners. Many docs nowadays are referring readily to massage therapists, acupuncturists, a variety of other energy healers, nutritionists, yoga, taijiquan, chiropractic, etc... The issue is, you simply need to demonstrate the safety and efficacy of a treatment plan to get the Western docs to refer. If anyone is serious about the value of this treatment, designing and finding support for a well designed study would be a very worthwhile undertaking, IMO.

 

Glad to hear you are getting good results with your methods. Someone needs to do the experimental work so that the Western system will acknowledge the value, add credibility, and get it PAID for. One major issue currently is that people have to pay out of pocket for much of this treatment which limits it's availability severely, and the only way that will change is by demonstrating efficacy and outcomes through well-designed trials.

[Protector]

soooooo can somebody explain the technique now?

[mewtwo]

what do you think astronauts use to maintain their bone density during extended time in orbit? something just like the soloflex wbv that I mentioned

 

 

What about the tunning fork things?

 

The only "scientific documentary" i have seen on them was an episode of bullshit.

 

Here is the link if anyone is interested.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w7fztpQego

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhOFdpWTgg&feature=related

[idquest]

Vibration is where it's at The piezoelectric properties of bone enhance the healing - so whether it is higher or lower frequency it will have an effect. So aside from qigong there's plenty of other good tools that can also aid, sometimes in tandem - I have a soloflex wbv and do standing on it - its nice how still the ground feels after doing horse stance on that thing

How often do you use the WBV machine and how would you estimate its effectiveness? Is it like 'lazy shaking' or something more than that?

 

Certainly, the bone qigong techniques are of the highest level; and for me it is rather unlikely I'll ever master them. So some external tools would be handy.

[Ya Mu]

OK, had a couple of minutes between class and the video shoot so thought I would address a couple of these.

 

...

Qigong Also i just cant see it healing bones, in my estimation it is a great preventative medicine but nothing beats a western doctor if you are having a heart attack ect.

 

On that qigong site i did not see any sources sitted ect of the people and there studies.

You can't see it because you are like the majority of people here; you have never studied or been treated by medical qigong so you just don't know anything about it. That is ok. If you wish to learn there are several programs in the USA.

 

The studies listed are abstracts.

 

Unfortunately, not a single study about clinical bone healing in that list, or anywhere else I've looked. There is one study in that list discussing pathologic changes in bone in rabbits in which they created fractures and looked at the healing bone in sacrificed animals with and without Qigong but there's not enough raw data there to really reach any conclusions.

 

Actually, complementary medicine is very popular right now in many major university hospitals. This is also the place where it is possible to get funding and interest in research. The residents, interns, and medical students are always looking for a project and it's relatively easy to get a supervising faculty member. As far as the "western medical profession" being "not interested" that's no longer the case. There is a very strong push for integration of complementary practices. It's widespread among primary care physicians and very well represented in the universities and growing steadily. Some major universities with such programs are University of Maryland, University of Colorado, Thomas Jefferson, Columbia, University of Wisconsin, Robert Wood Johnson,... the list goes on and on.

 

The time it takes to do the treatments you describe certainly wouldn't fit into a Western physician's schedule but it would be very easy to refer to qualified Qigong practitioners. Many docs nowadays are referring readily to massage therapists, acupuncturists, a variety of other energy healers, nutritionists, yoga, taijiquan, chiropractic, etc... The issue is, you simply need to demonstrate the safety and efficacy of a treatment plan to get the Western docs to refer. If anyone is serious about the value of this treatment, designing and finding support for a well designed study would be a very worthwhile undertaking, IMO.

 

Glad to hear you are getting good results with your methods. Someone needs to do the experimental work so that the Western system will acknowledge the value, add credibility, and get it PAID for. One major issue currently is that people have to pay out of pocket for much of this treatment which limits it's availability severely, and the only way that will change is by demonstrating efficacy and outcomes through well-designed trials.

Bear in mind the studies listed are simple abstracts, hence no "raw data".

 

I didn't bother looking through then, I was just giving you an example of his database.

I did take 10 minutes and have to wonder how long you looked to arrive at your conclusion.

 

Abstracts related to bone healing from Dr Ken Sancier's qigong database, www.qigonginstitute.org:

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=29

Effects of the emitted qi on healing of experimental fracture

Author: Jia Lin//Jia Jinding

Conference/Journal: 1st World Conf Acad Exch Med Qigong

Date published: 1988

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=448

Effect of waiqi (emitted qi) on experimental bone fracture in mice

Author: Zhang Jie//Hu Dongwu//Ye Zhumei

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=586

Therapeutic Effects of 'Loosing Sinew and Strengthening Bone' Qigong

Author: ChangGuangde////

Conference/Journal: 3rd Int Qigong Conf [in Chinese]

Date published: 1992

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=1174

Clinical observation of 50 cases of ankle joint sprain treated by qigong

Author: Huang Yongquan

Conference/Journal: 3rd World Conf Acad Exch Med Qigong

Date published: 1996

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=1259

Qigong applied to bone surgery

Author: Cui Weixing

Conference/Journal: 3rd World Conf Acad Exch Med Qigong

Date published: 1996

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=1389

An experimental study of the effect of the emitted qi on arrest of radiated rat bone marrow

Author: Feng Lida//Chen Shuying//Zhu Lina

Conference/Journal: 4th World Conf Acad Exch Med Qigong

Date published: 1998

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/shopping/preview_abstract.php?id=1415

Reduction of closed fracture with qigong, integrated Chinese and Western

Author: Cui Weixin

Conference/Journal: 4th World Conf Acad Exch Med Qigong

Date published: 1998

 

Ischemic necrosis in head of femur treated by new therapy of two-hand needle manipulation in qigong state: A report of clinical effects

Author: Huang Zhonglin

Conference/Journal: Zhongguo Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi

Date published: 1991

 

I only took this 10 minutes because I made the mistake in the initial post of putting in the sample of search terms, thinking anyone could do their own looking. Imagine what an hour of research would bring?

 

I will also address your other comments because it seems to me you are coming from an ideal perspective with not much actual experience dealing with research or medical professionals.

 

In no particular order:

 

Using medical school students.

When do you think they would actually have the time to do this? They operate on sheer guts just to stay awake. Do you think a study signed off by medical school students would carry any weight in the scientific community? I don't. "it's relatively easy to get a supervising faculty member" Are you kidding me? They are interested in doing studies where they are paid. So yeah, if you can pump a couple of hundred thousand into their program I am sure you are correct.

 

My experience with medical students:

I have lived with one. I have taught medical qigong at 2 major medical schools and one other hospital. The 4th year medical students had not much interest in listening much less studying it. They are taught that they know everything there is about medicine, they have passed their tests and here you are trying to tell them about energy healing. Ha Ha. IMO the most single arrogant groups of people who have no clue is represented here. Out in clinic in the real world

their world comes tumbling down; the real people don't respond like the books say.

"The time it takes to do the treatments you describe certainly wouldn't fit into a Western physician's schedule but it would be very easy to refer to qualified Qigong practitioners."

Correct, most will not nor can do it in clinic. I remember when my wife wanted to do acupuncture in clinic and the hospital authorities told her to show them where the AMA says it is within the standard of care. Sheesh, the system is screwed and will not change until it collapses.

 

As far as referrals, that isn't the problem. In my 35 plus years in clinic my problem was not a lack of referrals but a lack of time to take them all. Same thing is happening with my students.

 

I oh so totally disagree about the need for studies so insurance will pay for it. Fee for service works out way better for many reasons. Do you realize how much time it takes to file insurance claims? Even if the insurance companies accepted it I wouldn't accept the insurance companies. A healer would have to spend a whole other day at work for the week just to file insurance and if we are talking medicare, probably two whole days.

Accepting fee for service has proven to be far cheaper for the patient than going through the insurance company. Most especially when we are talking about medical qigong therapy.

 

Studies costs lots of money. All these people you say are just ready and willing - send them my way. You pay for the study (with a MD and PhD) and I will commit my healing for free. I sincerely doubt I will ever hear a word from anyone. Most people do not consider the cost of these.

 

edit: I want to add, since I wrote the above in a real big hurry, that individually speaking of western physicians, I actually agree with you. More and more are being drawn to things like medical qigong. I have some most excellent doctors in my program and some of the more famous specialists in the USA have attended my workshops. They are all fine, caring, very smart and open minded people. Some of them do medical qigong, but they can't do it openly. The system is broken and until things change I do not believe we will see medical qigong specialists operating in the hospitals. But change it will. Medical qigong IS future's medicine.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Ya Mu

[starhawk]

About Science Research:

 

As Ya Mu wrote, I agree. There is too much political interest in the established health groups (like conservative AMA), that it would be hard to find researchers and money to sponsor scientific studies on "energy healing". For one, people with no reputation like medical students do not make studies noteworthy, and credible researchers don't want to risk their reputations and their prospect of FUTURE FUNDING to try alternative therapies.

 

Ted J. Kaptchuk is a credible researcher, for example, who wrote "The Web with No Weaver" back in the 70s. He helped western science understand the paradigm of TCM healing.But the trend in research is still focused on proving acupuncture, so why venture into insane energy healing claims

 

Most normal people consider energy stuff quackery to begin with, or that it has to do with Placebo effect. Thus, more research is needed on placebo effect before mainstream western science will investigate phenomenal claims of energy healing.

 

Actually, the best bet is to find a wealthy philanthropist with interest in energy healing.

[Ya Mu]

...

Actually, the best bet is to find a wealthy philanthropist with interest in energy healing.

I've only met one, and all he did was want to buy me beer so I would talk about the medical qigong for free. But if you do run across one or two, I could use a good building for a retreat center to teach medical qigong and Taoist medicine.

[joeblast]

How often do you use the WBV machine and how would you estimate its effectiveness? Is it like 'lazy shaking' or something more than that?

 

Certainly, the bone qigong techniques are of the highest level; and for me it is rather unlikely I'll ever master them. So some external tools would be handy.

Of course my words arent gospel, but I'd disagree about bone techniques being of "the highest level" - but such notions are pissing up a wall in some sense anyway. I'd say its pretty effective, there is a potentiometer that lets you dial up or down the vibration rate. Its not quite the same as doing your own shaking, but then again, doing your own shaking isnt quite the same as the wbv My use of it is a little inconsistent, I mostly go by feel. Smile had a good tip to just take the motor off the thing and that increases its # of applications, it even gives a different effect if you run it perpendicular to how you just had it. But after a while I put it back on the platform because ZZ with it is very nice.

 

I oh so totally disagree about the need for studies so insurance will pay for it. Fee for service works out way better for many reasons. Do you realize how much time it takes to file insurance claims? Even if the insurance companies accepted it I wouldn't accept the insurance companies. A healer would have to spend a whole other day at work for the week just to file insurance and if we are talking medicare, probably two whole days.

Accepting fee for service has proven to be far cheaper for the patient than going through the insurance company. Most especially when we are talking about medical qigong therapy.

 

Studies costs lots of money. All these people you say are just ready and willing - send them my way. You pay for the study (with a MD and PhD) and I will commit my healing for free. I sincerely doubt I will ever hear a word from anyone. Most people do not consider the cost of these.

 

edit: I want to add, since I wrote the above in a real big hurry, that individually speaking of western physicians, I actually agree with you. More and more are being drawn to things like medical qigong. I have some most excellent doctors in my program and some of the more famous specialists in the USA have attended my workshops. They are all fine, caring, very smart and open minded people. Some of them do medical qigong, but they can't do it openly. The system is broken and until things change I do not believe we will see medical qigong specialists operating in the hospitals. But change it will. Medical qigong IS future's medicine.

I emphatically agree - insurance has broken the system and created its own, it is *the* single biggest reason why "health care" is so freakin expensive, its why so many practitioners of whatever medical art have one chart of prices for insurance and an entirely separate chart of prices for those whom are paying all of it. The amount of overhead that goes into the healthcare system is truly mind boggling. If only the government hadnt have given preferential treatment in creating this monster we would have more realistic prices. (Started with wage controls, but then gave employers the tax preference in compensation which led to the demise of the individual insurance market...now we've gotten to such a point that we have too-powerful boards of narrow minded people making proclamations regarding every little thing that may be utilized...AMA )

[LBDaoist]

How many people are truly qualified as medical qigong practitioners? To me that seems to be a huge obstacle from the beginning. I personally know of two energy healers who make significant amounts of money in Asia. Both of them have the same story, yet I learned of them through two completely different avenues. One of them my Sifu knows. The other my co-worker (who is Chinese) knows through her father, because the healer is a child hood friend of her father's. Both of them have a nearly identical story. They make large amounts of money and donate it all to the temple. The practice is widely accepted in Asia.

 

In the West, it seems like medical school focuses on results that can be reproduced by just about anyone. Look at surgery. Anyone can study to become a surgeon. The actual surgeries are reproduceable. "Anybody" (and I don't mean to use that term lightly) can go to school, cut up some cadavers, then pick up a scalpel and go to town on patients. Contrast that with what it takes to manifest high levels of qigong healing. It is one thing to be able to manipulate your own qi. It is another to affect the qi of another person.

 

Neither of the healers I mentioned above will treat old people. Both refuse for the same reason. There is too much accumulated negativity and badness in older people. The healer has to absorb it to heal the person. It affects them too much. Even when healing the young and the middle aged, they often require a week or more of rest after an intense session. How are you going to fit that into a Western medical model where clinicians are expected to treat multiple patents a day / week? "Top notch surgeons" sometimes do multiple surgeries in a day.

 

The other big obstacle is belief on the part of the patient. The patient has to believe in qi, believe that they can be better, and be open to the treatment. Qigong is not like a drug. A qigong healer helps the patient, but they cannot do it all. Other than those who study yoga and martial arts, who in the West is going to really be open to "weird mojo" like qigong?

 

As for my personal experience, I have never had any "bone healing" but I have had a contusion (huge knot on my shin from getting kicked a few times during sparring) disappear in two days, no bruising, no nothing after my sifu laid his hands on me for about a minute. Qigong healing is very real. However, it does not fit into the Western way of things. There will never be a school that cranks out people with doctorates in Qigong who then work in hospitals and heal people. It takes a certain type of person to be a healer. And it takes constant practice and self discipline to keep your own body and energy levels at a place where you can heal others.

[Ya Mu]

...

I emphatically agree - insurance has broken the system and created its own, it is *the* single biggest reason why "health care" is so freakin expensive, its why so many practitioners of whatever medical art have one chart of prices for insurance and an entirely separate chart of prices for those whom are paying all of it. The amount of overhead that goes into the healthcare system is truly mind boggling. If only the government hadnt have given preferential treatment in creating this monster we would have more realistic prices. (Started with wage controls, but then gave employers the tax preference in compensation which led to the demise of the individual insurance market...now we've gotten to such a point that we have too-powerful boards of narrow minded people making proclamations regarding every little thing that may be utilized...AMA )

Another part of this insurance system failure:

At one of my clinic locations my wife worked part time offering acupuncture. In the state we were in, she had to pay over 12k per year in insurance (in addition to "regular" coverage) just to offer this to the public. Those years I subsidized the clinic costs with my fee-for-service.

 

 

 

How many people are truly qualified as medical qigong practitioners? To me that seems to be a huge obstacle from the beginning. I personally know of two energy healers who make significant amounts of money in Asia. Both of them have the same story, yet I learned of them through two completely different avenues. One of them my Sifu knows. The other my co-worker (who is Chinese) knows through her father, because the healer is a child hood friend of her father's. Both of them have a nearly identical story. They make large amounts of money and donate it all to the temple. The practice is widely accepted in Asia.

 

In the West, it seems like medical school focuses on results that can be reproduced by just about anyone. Look at surgery. Anyone can study to become a surgeon. The actual surgeries are reproduceable. "Anybody" (and I don't mean to use that term lightly) can go to school, cut up some cadavers, then pick up a scalpel and go to town on patients. Contrast that with what it takes to manifest high levels of qigong healing. It is one thing to be able to manipulate your own qi. It is another to affect the qi of another person.

 

Neither of the healers I mentioned above will treat old people. Both refuse for the same reason. There is too much accumulated negativity and badness in older people. The healer has to absorb it to heal the person. It affects them too much. Even when healing the young and the middle aged, they often require a week or more of rest after an intense session. How are you going to fit that into a Western medical model where clinicians are expected to treat multiple patents a day / week? "Top notch surgeons" sometimes do multiple surgeries in a day.

 

The other big obstacle is belief on the part of the patient. The patient has to believe in qi, believe that they can be better, and be open to the treatment. Qigong is not like a drug. A qigong healer helps the patient, but they cannot do it all. Other than those who study yoga and martial arts, who in the West is going to really be open to "weird mojo" like qigong?

 

As for my personal experience, I have never had any "bone healing" but I have had a contusion (huge knot on my shin from getting kicked a few times during sparring) disappear in two days, no bruising, no nothing after my sifu laid his hands on me for about a minute. Qigong healing is very real. However, it does not fit into the Western way of things. There will never be a school that cranks out people with doctorates in Qigong who then work in hospitals and heal people. It takes a certain type of person to be a healer. And it takes constant practice and self discipline to keep your own body and energy levels at a place where you can heal others.

You bring up some very good points.

 

A couple of your points I slightly disagree with while at the same time recognizing the particular point's validity.

 

First I would like to repeat and emphasize this, without which we wouldn't have medical qigong: "And it takes constant practice and self discipline to keep your own body and energy levels at a place where you can heal others." This is a prerequisite for medical qigong.

 

How many are qualified to practice medical qigong? A very good point as evidenced by the number of people on this board who are; a small handful. This of course could be remedied by education. If more people would actually study medical qigong then more would be practicing it.

 

Two things I would comment on are about how many people can be seen in a day and the integration od medical qigong into western hospitals.

 

Number of clients/patients seen in a day:

I have worked up to 14 hours in-clinic per day. Yes, that is difficult and absurd and I highly don't recommend it. But for someone who is healthy and disciplined, there is no reason they can't project qi for 8 hours a day. A lot of this depends on the efficiency of the particular qigong/neigong practice they are using, as well as other factors such as family life stress, genetic dispositions, etc. In other words if they are working in clinic 8 hours a day then come home to having to take care of a sick family member; this can quickly take it's toll. A healer must be pragmatic in his/her view of these things and not swayed by their inherent compassion to help others at all costs. Otherwise the particular healer can lose the ability to help others; what would the compassion help then?

For the last 3 years of clinic practice I limited it to 5-6 hours of qi projection a day. This was much more practical and allowed time to practice. I semi-retired from clinic last year after 35 years of medical qigong practice.

 

In hospitals? Yes, it certainly COULD be done if the situation with "standard of care" changed. In some of the hospitals in China they had a medical qigong department alongside a western medicine department with Harvard (for example) trained physicians. This was a practical way of doing it; use whichever system was needed for a particular patient. I used to slip into hospitals and do medical qigong upon request and had many successes doing this. The patient's doctor would have of course freaked if they had known this was happening.

 

This sorry ass "standard of care" thing is one of things screwing up the practice of medicine today. It is a myth perpetuated by the established organizations, insurance companies, and probably most of all the judicial system. If a doctor uses something, such as medical qigong, acupuncture, herbal medicine, or homeopathic medicine, and something happened to a patient, they are then open to a tremendous lawsuit. An example would be a child has a common cold and the doctor's prescription was echinacea. Then later the child came down with some type of illness virtually unrelated to the cold but which may/may not have been helped with antibiotics. Whoops - big dollar lawsuit. So the biggest part of the failure of western medicine is not the doctors themselves. Actually quite a few of them have studied these complimentary systems. It is the total failure we have today of the many systems mentioned above that is the culprit.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Ya Mu

[humbleone]

I've only met one[wealthy philanthropist], and all he did was want to buy me beer so I would talk about the medical qigong for free.

 

oh, thats too bad.

 

Just curious if medical insurance companines pay for medical qigong treatment? or what will it take for them to start paying.

 

I mean going back to late the 1990's, most insurance companines recognised the value of 'alternative' medicine. I had about a dozen accupunture sessions, all paid for by my insurance, oxford heatlh plans. I just had to pay the regular $20 co-pay.

 

I believe a bottleneck for medical qigong, is this need to 're-charge' the Qi on part of the qigong healer. I remember reading your comment that most medical qigong healers should practice three(3) hours a day if they wish to treat patients.