The dangers of forced and unnatural breathing pratices

[寒月 Hanyue]

Right, by contract I meant return to normal. Not that they tense up.

 

Thats what came through to me

 

However, the ribs returning to normal is not what was being discussed, as far as I can tell.

 

Apologies, while it certainly is not the only thing, it appeared in reading the conversation between yourself and Jetsun that that was one of central aspects causing confusion. The other about the descending stomach on the exhale, well that has to do with a myriad of things regarding how one understands the kai-he (open/close) of body as a whole. Feel what the pelvis, pelvic floor/diaphragm, 'kua' muscles (iliacus, psoas eetc), sacrum, lumbar spine, diaphragm, and ribs do when you breath. Depending on how they move and interact they will move the organs differently on both the inhale and the exhale. The felt experience of how the body opens and closes, elongates and shrinks, as well as organ movement will change on the inhale and exhale drastically depending on how the synergistic movements of the above are engaged. Given that such variances occur in peoples teaching, you have to wonder really what is "natural"

 

Best,

[orb]

anybody here ever thought that different people "naturally" breath in a different way then you do? Just like different people have different body postures that they "prefer" throughout the day, the same way there are quite a few different "natural" ways of breathing possible and it's not that one is more correct or anything like that.

Edited January 28, 2012 by orb

[joeblast]

anybody here ever thought that different people "naturally" breath in a different way then you do? Just like different people have different body postures that they "prefer" throughout the day, the same way there are quite a few different "natural" ways of breathing possible and it's not that one is more correct or anything like that.

I wasnt aware different people had different anatomical structures! all breath produces a certain energetic outcome, that's the crux of that argument, but harmonized structures, quite simply, vastly outperform disharmonious, haphazard breath. harmonized breath is what will make manifest any benefit of an energized yangey style breath practices. saying harmoniousness of breath doesnt matter...um...I'm under the impression you meditate, correct? I dont understand the point of that other than to say as long as one breathes he will receive oxygen and limit the statement to that.

[Cameron]

So many different ways to breathe haha.

 

One of my teachers and friend, Dennis Lewis, has written excellent books on the Tao of breathing.

 

http://www.dennislewis.org/

[NeiChuan]

Gonna pick this book up, thanks for the good read.

[Friend]

It's something i'm still trying to learn and make sense of myself to be honest, the instructions in the book are over many pages so I can only quote the main parts and are set out in poetry style so it might not read as fluently when quoted here.

 

But my understanding is that allowing the stomach to descend on the exhale creates a space in the body or a sort of vacuum which will have to be filled with air once the outbreath is complete, as the air will naturally move in to occupy the space, so it facilitates a natural non-doing inbreath, as opposed to an inbreath which we have to work at.

 

I wonder if babies breathe in this way with their ribs open and stomach down? I know they breath lower down and don't chest breathe.

 

Also she talks about how the stomach descending connects you closer to your centre of gravity on the outbreath and the outbreath is meant to be used for action and expression so connecting to your centre of gravity when breathing out helps with authentic rooted expression of yourself.

 

 

Yes, I think you may be right. Perhaps joeblast or Friend could chime in.

 

As my embryonic breathing deepens, I can confirm what your book says. Especially about the stomach and sucking.

 

Chime in, overlook this post.

 

Let`s see.One of the most simple meditations is to meditate on breath and to observe the in and outflow of breath. This result are "Oberservations".

The authors and teachers have made themselves a lot of "Observations" and record it down. But an old proverb says :"Breathing is Life". Depending on what knowledge, Wisdom,awareness, view and proffession even this simple sentence would tell different things. For me "Life" is varying,developing and underlie changes and to cope with life "Breathing" has to varying, developing and underlie changes arcording the situation. And this is repeated in different context using different words

 

The body naturally breathes in a variety of ways given the fluctuations and demands placed upon it by varying circumstances.

 

"We must give much attention to keeping the diaphragm free from the imposed contractions of wilful, artificial breathing..."

 

"We must give much attention to keeping the diaphragm free from the imposed contractions by emotions, mindpatterns, thoughts and reaction to our perception"

 

Everyone of us is describing a coin and here we do describe breathing.

 

One has to ask questions when one read the knowledge records.

First thing is to recall and try to remember a time and a situation when this breathing occurs. Then one has to go the moment and ask how one breath now.

How do one breath while one move a arm, how when one lay down, how when one sit?

The body is a system. When one move a place then it affects all other places.

 

A static posture will make the breath motion that reach all the body more obvious.

Breathing and Heartpulse are two of movements that makes the body stay in a natural motion else one would become stiff. A place which has become stagnate can feel less, less pulse and less motion by breathing.

 

For example :There are things like Abdominal breathing, Chest breathing then things like Reverse Breathing. When energy and breath not sink deep enough ones natural breathing of this 3 would be AB or CB and both are same in expand and contract.

Reverse is reverse of this rule. This occurs when energy sink deep with the breath.

And even this is even more hybrid varying as Chunyilin use AB while Navel sink in

and in the momenet of my development this one is also natural for me but.... when I do more exercise in Qigong, Neikung, have sleep,eat and rest then my breathing adds force: my perineum and anus would lift when inhale and if I feel very well the tip of the tongue would move down to the lower palate and move up halfway when exhale touch the upper palate. If the tongue moves then the perineum and navel area gains greater pressure and heat. And if I feel very stressed I would switch to normal AB.

 

So artifical would be now if someone comes and try to "do it", this is not natural which is "let it be, just awareness". One has to be very careful especially when it touch the energetic states as one has to differ between a state which is natural

and a technique for corrrection to reach this natural state. Books have the

nature to describe a state mistaken as an recipe

 

Wu Wei can be practised by its own.

You Wei can be practised by its own.

Wu Wei can be used to correct You Wei.

You Wei can be used for correction to reach Wu Wei.

You Wei can become Wu Wei.

Wu Wei is in a balance to You Wei.

 

Mostly You Wei will cause a disbalance and will reduce the Wu Wei.

Wu Wei again can be explaines by You Wei to an extend but mostly people miss the point to exercise the exercise Wu Wei or use You Wei explaination and common sense to make it into Wu Wei Practise.