Chuang Tzu Chapter 6, Section E

[Marblehead]

Zi-si, Zi-yu, Zi-li, and Zi-lai, these four men, were talking together, when some one said, 'Who can suppose the head to be made from nothing, the spine from life, and the rump-bone from death? Who knows how death and birth, living on and disappearing, compose the one body? I would be friends with him.' The four men looked at one another and laughed, but no one seized with his mind the drift of the questions. All, however, were friends together. Not long after Zi-yu fell ill, and Zi-si went to inquire for him. 'How great,' said (the sufferer), 'is the Creator! That He should have made me the deformed object that I am!' He was a crooked hunchback; his five viscera were squeezed into the upper part of his body; his chin bent over his navel; his shoulder was higher than his crown; on his crown was an ulcer pointing to the sky; his breath came and went in gasps: yet he was easy in his mind, and made no trouble of his condition. He limped to a well, looked at himself in it, and said, 'Alas that the Creator should have made me the deformed object that I am!' Si said, 'Do you dislike your condition?' He replied, 'No, why should I dislike it? If He were to transform my left arm into a cock, I should be watching with it the time of the night; if He were to transform my right arm into a cross-bow, I should then be looking for a Xiao to (bring down and) roast; if He were to transform my rump-bone into a wheel, and my spirit into a horse, I should then be mounting it, and would not change it for another steed. Moreover, when we have got (what we are to do), there is the time (of life) in which to do it; when we lose that (at death), submission (is what is required). When we rest in what the time requires, and manifest that submission, neither joy nor sorrow can find entrance (to the mind). This would be what the ancients called loosing the cord by which (the life) is suspended. But one hung up cannot loose himself;-- he is held fast by his bonds. And that creatures cannot overcome Heaven (the inevitable) is a long-acknowledged fact - why should I hate my condition?'

 

Before long Zi-lai fell ill, and lay gasping at the point of death, while his wife and children stood around him wailing. Zi-li went to ask for him, and said to them, 'Hush! Get out of the way! Do not disturb him as he is passing through his change.' Then, leaning against the door, he said (to the dying man), 'Great indeed is the Creator! What will He now make you to become? Where will He take you to? Will He make you the liver of a rat, or the arm of an insect? Zi-lai replied, 'Wherever a parent tells a son to go, east, west, south, or north, he simply follows the command. The Yin and Yang are more to a man than his parents are. If they are hastening my death, and I do not quietly submit to them, I shall be obstinate and rebellious. There is the great Mass (of nature);-- I find the support of my body in it; my life is spent in toil on it; my old age seeks ease on it; at death I find rest on it: what has made my life a good will make my death also a good. Here now is a great founder, casting his metal. If the metal were to leap up (in the pot), and say, "I must be made into a (sword like the) Mo-ye," the great founder would be sure to regard it as uncanny. So, again, when a form is being fashioned in the mould of the womb, if it were to say, "I must become a man; I must become a man," the Creator would be sure to regard it as uncanny. When we once understand that heaven and earth are a great melting-pot, and the Creator a great founder, where can we have to go to that shall not be right for us? We are born as from a quiet sleep, and we die to a calm awaking.'

[konchog uma]

from Wandering On The Way: Taoist Tales and Parables

by Victor Mair

 

Sir Sacrifice, Sir Chariot, Sir Plow and Sir Come were all four

talking together. "Whoever can take non-being as his head, life as

his spine, and death as his buttocks, whoever knows the oneness

of life and death, of existence and nonexistence, we shall be his

friends." The four men looked at each other and smiled. Since

there was no discord in their hearts, they became friends with

each other.

Before long, Sir Chariot fell ill. When Sir Sacrifice went to

call on him, Sir Chariot said, "Great is the Creator of Things!

She's making me all crookedy like this!" His back was all

hunched up. On top were his five dorsal inductories. His chin

was buried in his bellybutton. His shoulders were higher than

the crown of his head. His neck bones pointed toward the sky.

His vital yin yang breaths were all out of kilter. Yet his mind

was at ease, as though nothing were amiss. He hobbled over to a

well and looked at his reflection in the water. "Alas!" he

said. "The Creator of Things is making me all crookedy like

this!"

"Do you resent it?" asked Sir Sacrifice.

"No, why should I resent it? Supposing that my left arm

were transformed into a chicken, I would consequently go look-

ing for a rooster that could call out the hours of the night.

Supposing that my right arm were transformed into a crossbow,

I would consequently go looking for an owl to roast. Supposing

that my buttocks were transformed into wheels and my spirit

into a horse, I would consequently mount upon them. What

need would I have for any other conveyance?

"Furthermore, what we attain is due to timeliness and what

we lose is the result of compliance. If we repose in timeliness and

dwell in compliance, sorrow and joy cannot affect us. This is

what the ancients called 'emancipation'. Those who are unable to

win release for themselves are bound by things. Furthermore,

long has it been that things do not win out against heaven. So

why should I resent it?"

 

Before long, Sir Come fell ill. Gasping and on the verge of

death, he was surrounded by his wife and children who were

weeping. Sir Plow, who went to call on him, said to his family,

"Shush! Go away! Do not disturb transformation!" Then, lean-

ing against the door, he spoke to Sir Come: "Great is the

Transforming Creator! What next will he make of you? Where

will he send you? Will he turn you into a rat's liver? Will he turn

you into a bug's leg?"

"The relationship of parents to a child," said Sir Come, "is

such that he simply follows their commands, no matter which

direction they may point him. The relationship of yin and yang

to a man is no less important than that of parents to a child. If

they urge me to die and I resist, that is my ill-temper. What fault

of theirs is it? The Great Clod burdens me with form, toils me

through life, eases me in old age, rests me in death. Thus, that

which makes my life good is also that which makes my death

good. Now, the Great Smelter casts his metal. If the metal were

to jump up and say, 'You must make me into Excalibur!' the

Great Smelter would certainly think that it was inauspicious

metal. Now if I, who have chanced to take on human form, were

to say, 'Man! I must remain a man!' the Great Transforming

Creator would certainly think that I am an inauspicious man.

Now, once I accept heaven and earth as the Great Forge, and the

Transforming Creator as the Great Smelter, I'm willing to go

wherever they send me."

 

Soundly he slept,

Suddenly he awoke.

[konchog uma]

i like that. Its not so much about old age as it is about acceptance. I think anyone who has had difficulties in life knows that simply accepting them is the first step toward having power or agency in that situation.

 

The last 2 lines tho, i think Mair missed them, and Legge got them better. Thats a first, i have had a hard time wrapping my head around Legge's translations so far.

[Marblehead]

i have had a hard time wrapping my head around Legge's translations so far.

 

I have already decided to switch to Yutang for the Outer Chapters and then to Watson for the Miscellaneous Chapters. I think that is only fair and those who are reading these threads will get a feeling for how others translate the chapters.

[konchog uma]

I have already decided to switch to Yutang for the Outer Chapters and then to Watson for the Miscellaneous Chapters. I think that is only fair and those who are reading these threads will get a feeling for how others translate the chapters.

 

but that was still Legge in this chapter right?

[Marblehead]

but that was still Legge in this chapter right?

 

Yes. Still Legge. Chapter 7 will start off with Yutang.

[ChiDragon]

Modern interpretation

【译文】

子祀(Zi Si)、子舆(Zi Yu)、子犁(Zi Li)、子来(Zi Lai)四个人在一块摆谈说：“谁能够把无当作头，把生当作脊柱，把死当作尻尾，谁能够通晓生死存亡浑为一体的道理，我们就可以跟他交朋友。”四个人都会心地相视而笑，心心相契却不说话，于是相互交往成为朋友。

 

子祀(Zi Si)、子舆(Zi Yu)、子犁(Zi Li)、and 子来(Zi Lai) these four persons are talking together and said: "Who can let Wu(无, invisible) be the head, and let life be the spine and let death be the Coccyx(尻尾), who can understand that the principle of life and death was integrated as a whole, then we can become friends with him. The four looked at each other and smiled, there was a mutual agreement within their hearts in silence. Then, they all became friends.

 

不久子舆生了病，子祀前去探望他。子舆说：“伟大啊，造物者！把我变成如此曲屈不伸的样子！腰弯背驼，五脏穴口朝上，下巴隐藏在肚脐之下，肩部高过头顶，弯曲的颈椎形如赘瘤朝天隆起”。阴阳二气不和酿成如此灾害，可是子舆的心里却十分闲逸好像没有生病似的，蹒跚地来到井边对着井水照看自己，说：“哎呀，造物者竟把我变成如此曲屈不伸！”

 

Not long ago, 子舆(Zi Yu) got sick, Zi Zi when to visit him. Zi Yu said: "Almighty, the all creator! had made me in such a crooked figure and unable to straight out my body, crooked waist and hunched back, all the five holes on my face looking up toward heaven; having my chin buried below my navel; with my shoulder above the top of my head; with my neck piled up like a tumor toward heaven. It was the disharmony of Yin-Yang causing such tragedy; but Zi Yu was so calm in his heart and seems like he was not ill at all. He limped to the edge of the well and looked himself from the water. He said: 'Oh ah! The creator made me to look such crooked and bent."

 

子祀说：“你讨厌这曲屈不伸的样子吗？”

子舆回答：“没有，我怎么会讨厌这副样子！假令造物者逐渐把我的左臂变成公鸡，我便用它来报晓；假令造物者逐渐把我的右臂变成弹弓，我便用它来打斑鸠烤熟了吃。假令造物者把我的臀部变化成为车轮，把我的精神变化成骏马，我就用来乘坐，难道还要更换别的车马吗？

 

至于生命的获得，是因为适时，生命的丧失，是因为顺应；安于适时而处之顺应，悲哀和欢乐都不会侵入心房。这就是古人所说的解脱了倒悬之苦，然而不能自我解脱的原因，则是受到了外物的束缚。况且事物的变化不能超越自然的力量已经很久很久，我又怎么能厌恶自己现在的变化呢？”

 

子祀(Zi Si)said: "Are you disgusted the way you look?

子舆(Zi Yu) answered back: "No, How would I be disgusted this look! Suppose the creator made my left as a rooster, then I would use it the morning call; suppose the creator made my right hand as a sling shot, then I would use it to hunt turtledoves and cook them for food. Suppose the creator made my buttock as a wheel and made my soul as a horse, then I would use it as a ride, perhaps do I need to replace them with other carriages? Regarding to the gain of life, it was because at the right time; the lost of life is because it was at the suitable time.

 

By placing oneself at the right time and attending at the suitable time, hence, sorrow and happiness will not enter the heart. This was what the ancients called the relief of the hangover of pain. Otherwise, the reason one cannot free of the pain by oneself, then, it was by an external fetter. Though, all matters cannot be changed beyond by any natural force for a long long time, how could I be disgusted about my present condition of mutations.

 

不久子来也生了病，气息急促将要死去，他的妻子儿女围在床前哭泣。子犁前往探望，说：“嘿，走开！不要惊扰他由生而死的变化！”子犁靠着门跟子来说话：“伟大啊，造物者！又将把你变成什么，把你送到何方？把你变化成老鼠的肝脏吗？把你变化成虫蚁的臂膀吗？”

 

Not long ago, Zi Lai also become sick. He was in heavy breathing and dieing. His wife and children were crying beside his bed. Zi Li came by to visit him and said: "Do not disturb him; he is in the process of changing from life to death!" Zi Li leaned against the door and said to Zi Lai and said: "It's almighty, the creator! What will it change you into and where will it send you to? Will you be changed into the liver of a mouse? Or Change you into a leg of an ant?"

 

子来说：“父母对于子女，无论东西南北，他们都只能听从吩咐调遣。自然的变化对于人，则不啻于父母；它使我靠拢死亡而我却不听从，那么我就太蛮横了，而它有什么过错呢！大地把我的形体托载，用生存来劳苦我，用衰老来闲适我，用死亡来安息我。所以把我的存在看作是好事，也因此可以把我的死亡看作是好事。现在如果有一个高超的冶炼工匠铸造金属器皿，金属熔解后跃起说‘我将必须成为良剑莫邪’，冶炼工匠必定认为这是不吉祥的金属。如今人一旦承受了人的外形，便说‘成人了成人了’，造物者一定会认为这是不吉祥的人。如今把整个浑一的天地当作大熔炉，把造物者当作高超的冶炼工匠，用什么方法来驱遣我而不可以呢？”于是安闲熟睡似的离开人世，又好像惊喜地醒过来而回到人间。

 

Zi Lai said: The children with respect toward their parents, regardless of what, they only can obey what they were told. The natural change about humans, thus it was not just implied to their parents. If it makes me incline toward death, then, I cannot obey. However, I was told to be barbaric, is there something wrong with that! The great earth gave a place for my physical body, using survival to torture me; using old age to put me into dormant, using death to to put me into peace. Treating my existence as a good thing, hence it can treat my death as a good thing too. Now, if there was a superior blacksmith to make a metallic instrument. After it was finished, I'll raise it and say: "I will make it a good sword to get rid of all evils." Then the blacksmith would say that is a piece of inauspicious metal. Perhaps, now, human once became into the form of human, then it was said to be a human became human. Then the creator will say this is not a auspicious person. Suppose, letting the great heaven and earth become a big kiln; and let the creator become a superior blacksmith. How can he not use any method to manipulate me?" Thus one was leaving this world as if one was in deeply sleep. Perhaps, surprisingly waken up and then returned back on earth.

Edited February 4, 2012 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Modern interpretation

 

子祀(Zi Si)、子舆(Zi Yu)、子犁(Zi Li)、and 子来(Zi Lai) these four persons are talking together and said: "Who can let Wu(无, invisible) be the head, and let life be the spine and let death be the Coccyx(尻尾), who can understand that the principle of life and death was integrated as a whole, then we can become friends with him. The four looked at each other and smiled, there was a mutual agreement within their hearts in silence. Then, they all became friends.

 

Not long ago, 子舆(Zi Yu) got sick, Zi Zi when to visit him. Zi Yu said: "Almighty, the all creator! had made me in such a crooked figure and unable to straight out my body, crooked waist and hunched back, all the five holes on my face looking up toward heaven; having my chin buried below my navel; with my shoulder above the top of my head; with my neck piled up like a tumor toward heaven. It was the disharmony of Yin-Yang causing such tragedy; but Zi Yu was so calm in his heart and seems like he was not ill at all. He limped to the edge of the well and looked himself from the water. He said: 'Oh ah! The creator made me to look such crooked and bent."

 

子祀(Zi Si)said: "Are you disgusted the way you look?

子舆(Zi Yu) answered back: "No, How would I be disgusted this look! Suppose the creator made my left hand as a rooster, then I would use it for the morning call; suppose the creator made my right hand as a sling shot, then I would use it to hunt turtledoves and cook them for food. Suppose the creator made my buttock as a wheel and made my soul as a horse, then I would use it as a ride, perhaps do I need to replace them with other carriages? Regarding to the gain of life, it was because at the right time; the lost of life is because it was at the suitable time.

 

By placing oneself at the right time and attending at the suitable time, hence, sorrow and happiness will not enter the heart. This was what the ancients called the relief of the hangover of pain. Otherwise, the reason one cannot free of the pain by oneself, then, it was by an external fetter. Though, all matters cannot be changed beyond by any natural force for a long long time, how could I be disgusted about my present condition of mutations.

 

Not long ago, Zi Lai also become sick. He was in heavy breathing and dying. His wife and children were crying beside his bed. Zi Li came by to visit him and said: "Do not disturb him; he is in the process of changing from life to death!" Zi Li leaned against the door and said to Zi Lai: "It's almighty, the creator! What will it change you into and where will it send you to? Will you be changed into the liver of a mouse? Or Change you into a leg of an ant?"

 

Zi Lai said: The children with respect toward their parents, regardless of what, they only can obey what they were told. The natural change about humans, thus it was not just implied to their parents. If it makes me incline toward death, then, I cannot obey. However, I was told that I was being barbaric, is there something wrong with that! The great earth gave a place for my physical body, using survival to torture me; using old age to put me into dormant, using death to put me into peace. Treating my existence as a good thing, hence it can treat my death as a good thing too. Now, if there was a superior blacksmith to make a metallic instrument. After it was finished, I'll raise it and say: "I will make it a good sword to get rid of all evils." Then the blacksmith would say that is a piece of inauspicious metal. Perhaps, now, human once became into the form of human, then it was said to be a human became human. Then the creator will say this is not an auspicious person. Suppose, letting the great heaven and earth become a big kiln; and let the creator become a superior blacksmith. How can he not use any method to manipulate me?" Thus one was leaving this world as if one was in deeply sleep. Perhaps, surprisingly waken up and then returned back to earth.

 

 

Edited in bold.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

You done good. Got the concepts down and that is important. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

 

I like to look at this section as a lesson in accepting what is beyond our capacity to change.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Marblehead

[konchog uma]

You done good. Got the concepts down and that is important. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

 

I like to look at this section as a lesson in accepting what is beyond our capacity to change.

 

yes thanks chidragon!

 

that story is inspiring, his heart was calm even though he was deformed. How many people do i see in a day who aren't deformed, but their hearts aren't calm?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Reminds me of prayer in that you can't really ask God to make you a millionaire, but you can ask to be put in the stream that you are supposed to be in. Sometimes we sit in boring dead-end jobs, for example, and want something better, at least to be doing what we're supposed to be doing no matter how little glory it might give us. If I should be a fisherman, let me be a fisherman. If I should be a teacher, let me be a teacher. If I should work 13 hour days as a business owner, then let me be a business owner. I just want to do what God wants me to do, or what is in harmony with Tao if you rather, because I know that I will always be in the right place at the right time no matter what I'm doing if I can do that.