Translating "Questions and Answers on the Golden Elixir" (金丹问答)

[Rainy_Day]

On a previous thread, I said I wanted to try my hands at translating some Daoist texts: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/22412-anyone-need-translations-of-daoist-texts/.

 

I'm going to start with "Questions and Answers on the Golden Elixir" (金丹问答), because it seems to present the least problems for translating, and because it seems quite useful.

 

The Chinese original can be found here: http://www.danxin.net/jingdian/%E9%87%91%E4%B8%B9%E9%97%AE%E7%AD%94.htm.

 

I'll do some translating every now and then, and post the results on this thread. Please correct or criticise as appropriate. (I'm not a neidan practitioner myself. I can only give what I believe to be an accurate translation according to my knowledge of Classical Chinese.) Also, feel free to make any suggestions.

 

Also, please note that everything posted here is a work in progress. I'll edit the draft as I go along.

 

Part 1 of Draft

 

金丹问答

 

萧廷之

 

Questions and Answers on the Golden Elixir

 

By Xiao Tingzhi

 

　　问曰：“如何谓之金液还丹？”

 

　　答曰：“金液者，金水也。金为水母，母隐子胎。因有还丹之号也。前贤有曰，丹者，丹田也。液者，肺液也。以肺液还于丹田，故曰‘金液还丹。’”

 

Question: What does "returning the metallic liquid to the elixir" mean?

 

Answer: Metallic liquid means metallic water. Metal is the mother of water. The mother hides the fetus of her child. Hence, the name of "returning to the elixir". Prior generations of wise men have said, "Elixir refers to the elixir field. Liquid refers to the liquid of the lungs. One returns the liquid of the lungs to the elixir field. Therefore, we call this "returning the metallic liquid to the elixir".

 

　　问曰：“何谓铅汞？”

 

　　答曰：“非凡黑锡水银也。真一子曰：‘铅是天地之父母，阴阳之根基。’盖圣有采天地，父母之根，而为大药之基。采阴阳纯粹之精，而为大丹之质。且非常物造作也。汞性好飞，遇铅乃结，以其子母相恋也。”

 

Question: What does one mean by "lead" and "mercury"?

 

Answer: These do not refer to common metal, such as tin and mercury. The Master of True Unity says, "Lead is the parent of Heaven and Earth, and the foundation of yin and yang." For Sages collect the root of Heaven and Earth, and Father and Mother, in order to create the foundation of the great medicine. One collects the pure essence of yin and yang, in order to create the substance of the great elixir - This is different from the creation of common things. Mercury's nature is to like to fly, but it bonds with lead when they meet, due to the love between the son and the mother.

 

　　问曰：“何谓火？”

 

　　答曰：“火者，太阳真气，乃坎中之阳也。紫清真人曰：‘坎中起火’是也。”

 

Question: What does "fire" mean?

 

Answer: Fire is the true qi of greater yang - the yang in the middle of kan*. This is what the True Man of Purple Clarity meant by "start the fire in the middle of kan".

 

*as in the trigram.

 

　　问曰：“何谓候？”

 

　　答曰：“五日为一候，是甲为一终也。日有十二时，五日六十时，终一甲子也。紫阳曰：‘一刻之工夫，自有一年之节候。’以起火之际，顷刻而一周天也。”

 

Question: What does "hou" mean?

 

Answer: One hou is five days...(not clear on this part)*...One day has twelve hours; five days have sixty hours - This completes one jiazi*. The Master of Purple Yang said, "The work of one quarter-hour contains the seasons and climate of a year." Starting from when one starts the fire, a microcosmic orbit is completed in a moment.

 

*tentatively, "Its jia is the completion of one cycle."

*A unit in Chinese calendrical calculations, which is subdivided into sixty parts.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Rainy_Day

[Rainy_Day]

[dawei]

[Rainy_Day]

I am not really seeing any interpretation for the text presented so far... it is simply a literal translation without any inner alchemy meaning applied... I'll take a guess at a few:

 

金 = gold = metal [is found in water] = precious = innate nature [flow]

 

金液 = golden liquid = valuable water = precious saliva = innate natures path

 

母 = mother = Qi

子胎 = egg = son = Shen

水母 = water mother = water of life (from mother for son) = life for Shen

 

金为水母 = metal acts in water mother = metal is mother of water = innate nature generates life for Shen

 

母隐子胎 = mother conceals the original egg = Qi reveals the Shen = Qi nourishes Shen

 

金液还丹 = golden liquid returns to the elixir = innate nature returns to Dao

 

I believe that you're correct in that the "golden liquid" refers to saliva. I found an explanation on Baidu, but I'm not fully convinced of it as yet.

 

Thank you for your explanation. My plan was to make a literal translation first, and then get the knowledgeable people of this forum together to create an annotated version. However, feel free to jump in and add your wisdom at any time.

[ChiDragon]

I believe that you're correct in that the "golden liquid" refers to saliva. I found an explanation on Baidu, but I'm not fully convinced of it as yet.

 

Thank you for your explanation. My plan was to make a literal translation first, and then get the knowledgeable people of this forum together to create an annotated version. However, feel free to jump in and add your wisdom at any time.

 

If one understands the five elements: 金(metal), 木(wood), 水(water), 火(fire), and 土(earth), then the conclusion would not be saliva.

 

"Metallic fluid" is the correct translation for 金液.

[Rainy_Day]

[ChiDragon]

[Rainy_Day]

[Rainy_Day]

Answer: "The metallic fluid is know as "metallic water", the fetus hidden in the mother's womb. Hence, it is the sign of returning the elixir. The ancient sage said, dan means "dan tian". Fluid means the fluids of the lung, let the fluids of the lung return to the dan tian. Therefore, it was said that "the metallic fluid returns to the dan tian."

 

Thank you for this.

 

Would you like to collaborate on this translation?

 

If you would like to collaborate, we can chat over msn, qq, or phone to pin down the exact meaning of each passage.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Rainy_Day

[Rainy_Day]

[ChiDragon]

Thank you for this.

 

Would you like to collaborate on this translation?

 

If you would like to collaborate, we can chat over msn, qq, or phone to pin down the exact meaning of each passage.

 

Rainy_Day...

Thank you for your interest to have my collaboration. I do interested in cooperating with your translation. However, due to the time consumption involve per your request, it is utterly impossible for me to put my time elsewhere.

 

If you don't mind, I would like to just jump right into where ever I see some discrepancies and discuss it with you. How is that sound...???...

[Rainy_Day]

Rainy_Day...

Thank you for your interest to have my collaboration. I do interested in cooperating with your translation. However, due to the time consumption involve per your request, it is utterly impossible for me to put my time elsewhere.

 

If you don't mind, I would like to just jump right into where ever I see some discrepancies and discuss it with you. How is that sound...???...

 

Dear ChiDragon,

 

That sounds great.

 

Btw, I figured out the problem with some of the obscure passages earlier - The Chinese original I was using has a lot of typos. A better one is:

 

http://www.ctcwri.idv.tw/CTCWRI-MTS/CMT01%E6%B4%9E%E7%9C%9F%E9%83%A8/CMT0108%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E9%A1%9E/CH0108XX/CH010846%E4%BF%AE%E7%9C%9F%E5%8D%81%E6%9B%B8%E9%87%91%E4%B8%B9%E5%A4%A7%E6%88%90%E9%9B%86/CH010846-10%E4%BF%AE%E7%9C%9F%E5%8D%81%E6%9B%B8%E9%87%91%E4%B8%B9%E5%A4%A7%E6%88%90%E9%9B%86%E5%8D%B7%E5%8D%81.htm

 

or

 

http://www.daoism.cc/dandao/fdjd/xzss/jddcj2.htm

[Chen]

Nice job....

Please can you make later a Download able format?

[ChiDragon]

　　问曰：“何谓候？”

 

　　答曰：“五日为一候，是甲为一终也。日有十二时，五日六十时，终一甲子也。紫阳曰：‘一刻之工夫，自有一年之节候。’以起火之际，顷刻而一周天也。”

 

Question: What does "hou" mean?

 

Answer: One hou is five days...(not clear on this part)*...One day has twelve hours; five days have sixty hours - This completes one jiazi*. The Master of Purple Yang said, "The work of one quarter-hour contains the seasons and climate of a year." Starting from when one starts the fire, a microcosmic orbit is completed in a moment.

 

*tentatively, "Its jia is the completion of one cycle."

*A unit in Chinese calendrical calculations, which is subdivided into sixty parts.

 

1. 候(hou) is a unit that the ancients used to designate five days which is analogous the seven days a week in our time.

 

2. 日有十二时: There are twelve time units in a day:

子、丑、寅、卯、辰、巳、午、未、申、酉、戌、亥

Each time unit is equal to two hours.

 

3. 五日六十时: There are sixty time units in a "hou(five says)".

 

4. 终一甲子也: At the end of the sixty time units or any units was considered as a "甲子(jia zi) cycle".

 

5. 以起火之际，顷刻而一周天也: 離卦(li gua, Fire) is the trigram on top of the Ba Gua. There are thirty days in a Chinese month, 12 X 30 = 360 days in one year(theoretically). Since they were using lunar year, there were few leap months in the Chinese calendar, thus it was not very accurate. Anyway, after one revolution around the BA Gua was considered one day(一周天).

 

Note: all these terminologies are the thinking or believes in the Chinese Taoist religion. Some of the esoteric terms may not be understood by an ordinary person.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ChiDragon

[tccii]

Hi Rainy_Day,

 

Thank you for undertaking a task as challenging as translating some of the Taoist classics. There are so few people doing it relative to the vast corpus of material it is always nice to see someone jump in so enthusiastically.

 

You may already be aware of this, but there are a few resources available that can help you with some of the terminology.

 

First I would suggest Isabelle Robinet's essays on Nei Dan "The World Upside Down: Essays on Taoist Internal Alchemy."

 

Second, Fabrizio Pregadio's recent translation of the The Zhou Yi Can Tong Qi provides extensive commentary on the meaning of the esoteric language used in Nei Dan. Since Pregadio provides the original Chinese, you can also see how he translates certain common phrases. As you probably know, the Can Tong Qi is one of the most important source texts of Nei Dan. It strongly influenced much of the later literature.

 

You are undoubtedly aware of the many pitfalls facing the translators, but I go into some detail about the specific challenges facing the translators of the Nei Dan classics in our recent paper called Interpreting the Ancient Codes. It also includes an interview with Fabrizio Pregadio and a review of his translation of the Can Tong Qi. There is a thread about it here.

 

Again, thank you for your work in this area!

[Rainy_Day]

Dear tccii,

 

Thank you for your suggestions. I'll definitely check out Robinet and Pregadio's books. Maybe tonight or this weekend, I'll read "Interpreting the Ancient Codes". (Right now, I'm just treating this translation as a learning experience.)

 

Feel free to comment when you see mistakes in my translation.

 

Dear ChiDragon,

 

Thank you for annotating that portion.

 

Btw, I figured out the obscure part of that portion. The original Chinese version I used was missing a word. It actually goes:

 

问曰：何谓候？答曰：五日为一候，是甲子一终也。日有十二时，五日六十时，终一甲子也。紫阳曰：一刻之功夫，自有一年之节候，以起火之际，顷刻一周天。

 

是甲子一终也 makes perfect sense, whereas the version I got before, e.g. 是甲为一终也, is just confusing.

 

...

 

There are other portions of the original Chinese version which seem corrupted. It's missing a portion on "returning seven times".

Instead of

 

 

　　问曰：“何谓九还？”

 

　　答曰：“金生数四，成数九。还者，自上而还下，九乃老阳之数。阴真君曰：‘从寅至申为七返。’亦迹上也。”

 

It should be

 

问曰：何谓九还？答曰：金生四，成数九。还者，自上而还下。九乃老阳之数。阴真君曰：从子至申为九还，亦顺下也。

 

问曰：何谓七返？答曰：火生二，成数七。返者，自下而返上。七乃少阳之数，阴真君曰：从寅至申为七返，亦逆上也。

 

(At least I　assume it should be. Maybe you would be able to verify this for me?)

 

Question: What does "returning nine times" mean?

 

Answer: Metal is four by birth, but nine by completion. To return (huan2) means to return downward from above. Nine is the number of old yang. Yinzhen Jun said, "From zi to shen is returning nine times - This is following the natural course downward."

 

Question: What does "coming back seven times" mean?

 

Answer: Fire is two by birth, but seven by completion. To come back (fan3) means to come back up from below. Seven is the number of young yang. Yinzhen Jun said, "From yin to shen is coming back seven times - This is going up by opposing the natural course."

 

...

 

Another portion in which the original version I used was wrong:

 

问曰：何谓内三要？答曰：第一要太渊池也。第二要绛宫也。第三要地户也。

 

(This is the correct version on the inner three necessities.)

 

The second necessity is crimson palace.

 

zdic says,

 

(2).道教称心为绛宫。《黄庭内景经·若得章》“重中楼阁十二环” 梁丘子 注：“谓喉咙十二环，相重在心上。心为絳宫，有象楼阁者也。”

 

In Daoism, the heart is known as the crimson palace.

 

Anyway, this is now the version I'm using: http://www.daoism.cc/dandao/fdjd/xzss/jddcj2.htm

Edited January 27, 2012 by Rainy_Day

[Rainy_Day]

[Rainy_Day]

问：三花聚顶？答曰：神气精混而为一也。玄关一窍乃神气精之穴也。

 

Question: What does "the three flowers gathering at the top" mean?

 

Answer: It means when the spirit, the qi, and the essence mix into one. The opening of the mysterious gate is the cavern of the spirit, the qi, and the essence.

 

问：五气朝元？答曰：五藏真气上朝于天元也。

 

Question: What does "the five qi paying homage to the origin" mean?

 

Answer: The zhen qi of the five organs travel upward to pay homage at the heavenly origin.

 

问：和合四象？答曰：眼不视而魂在肝，耳不闻而精在肾，舌不动而神在心，鼻不嗅而魄在肺，精神魂魄聚于意土也。

 

Question: What does "the four symbols of harmony and combination" mean?

 

Answer: The eyes do not see, and the hun is in the liver. The ears do not hear, and the essence is in the kidneys. The tongue does not move, and the spirit is in the heart. The nose does not smell, and the po is in the lungs. In other words, the essence, the spirit, the hun, and the po gather at the earth of intention.*

 

*Is there a typo here? What is "yitu"?

 

问曰：马牙、真主人、神符、白雪？答曰：皆铅汞之总名也。

 

Question: What are "the horse's tooth", "the true master", "the divine talisman", and "the white snow"?

 

Answer: These are all names for lead and mercury together.

 

问：河车？答曰：北方正气名曰河车，左曰日轮，右曰月轮，搬负正气，运藏元阳，应节顺行，下手无非此车之力。

 

Question: What is the river carriage?

 

Answer: The correct qi of the North is called the river carriage. Its left is called the sun wheel. Its right is called the moon wheel. Carrying the correct qi, transporting and storing the original yang, travelling the natural course in accordance with the seasons - Applying oneself to cultivation is none other than the force of this carriage.

 

问曰：老嫩何也？答曰：采药之时，审其老嫩。彭鹤林曰：嫩时须采，老时枯。紫阳曰：铅见癸生须急采，金逢望远不堪尝，是也。

 

Question: What is oldness and tenderness?

 

Answer: When collecting the medicine, examine whether it's old or tender. Peng Helin said, "Collect when tender, because it withers when old. Ziyang said, "When the lead is born at the hour of kui, collect quickly. When metal is...(passage unclear to me)..."

 

More than half way done the literal draft! I believe, however, the real work will be sorting out the actual meaning of the text.

[dawei]

If one understands the five elements: 金(metal), 木(wood), 水(water), 火(fire), and 土(earth), then the conclusion would not be saliva.

 

"Metallic fluid" is the correct translation for 金液.

I am not going to argue the choice of word translation... since in either case it is completely void of any inner alchemy meaning.

 

It is actually an easy conclusion in my mind when considering TCM and inner alchemy. You'll have to do better than show the five phase and proclaim that as proof of your argue about saliva. It did make me laugh though...

 

In the Five Phases, metal [lungs] carries water [kidneys]... what the metal/lungs produce in saliva seeks to return to it's origin of the kidneys (organ of water and body fluids). Thus, the lungs functioning requires the kidney support; the saliva produces and nourishes; comes forth and returns.

 

This is just a physical level... this is all meant to be applied finally to the Shen returning to Dao.

Edited January 28, 2012 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

I don't think you have the fundamental understanding of the five basic elements. Did you know that the five elements were assigned to the internal organs in the TCM system...??? How are the organs interacting with each other were based on the five elements system. Do you know how the five elements are aiding and opposing theory.

 

As I said, it seems to me you are applying all your TCM knowledge to everything. You just can't stay away from it. Can you...???

Edited January 28, 2012 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I don't think you have the fundamental understanding of the five basic elements. Did you know that the five elements were assigned to the internal organs in the TCM system...???

You evidently did not read carefully when I said:

metal [lungs] carries water [kidneys]

 

Can't you see the association of five element to organ???

 

How are the organs interacting with each other were based on the five elements system. Do you know how the five elements are aiding and opposing theory.

Again... you can't seem to read what I wrote...

metal [lungs] carries water [kidneys] = SHENG CYCLE

 

I studied it as part of Medical Qigong... but I am sure that your book reading and native scholars who think the DDJ is purely a philosophical work are to be preferred for your own safe keeping.

 

I am not here to argue. I have twice presented my side with some detail and explanation. You have not presented anything yet except emotional outburst. So I'll step aside so you can enjoy your translation exercise here.

Edited January 28, 2012 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

Please don't forget, the five elements apply to something else, too, not just just the internal organs.

Edited January 28, 2012 by ChiDragon

[Rainy_Day]

Come on, guys, no need to fight over this.

 

There are other texts which explain the same tradition in far greater detail. We can look them up to determine who is right later.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Rainy_Day

[ChiDragon]

Come on, guys, no need to fight over this.

 

There are other texts which explain the same tradition in far greater detail. We can look them up to determine who is right later.

Sorry.....

I tried to avoid this from happening; but it just can't be stopped....

[dawei]

Come on, guys, no need to fight over this.

 

There are other texts which explain the same tradition in far greater detail. We can look them up to determine who is right later.

It is not about fighting, or right or wrong... it was supposed to be sharing one's thoughts... but you'll get used to ChiDragon's way here soon enough...