Astral_Anima Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Hey all, So I think I'm starting to see a "link" in meditation, energy and health. So i'm going to post some ideas and i'm just curious on people's thoughts. 1.) I've heard that the chakras all correlate with the endocrine glands. Has anyone heard about this? For example the throat chakra would be th thyroid, brow would be pituitary, heart - thymus, sacral - adrenals, etc etc. 2.) If the above is true, I've also read that the sacral or navel chakra is where physical vitality manifests or is stored. If this energy center correlates with the adrenals glands and the kidney system of TCM (which also includes the adrenal glands). I've heard such theories that say one must have super strong kidneys cause they store chi. 3.) Assuming further that the above two are true, Kidneys have the function of filtering lymph and thus acids. Those with strong kidneys are naturally more flexible and can hold positions longer than those with weaker kdineys. It is my unprofessional opinion that the reason children are so flexible is because their kidneys are still strong an yet unburdened by modern lifestyle and eating habbits. HOWEVER it's well known that certain masters require one to be able to sit in full lotus or horse stance for lengthy periods of time. They say that you must have open channels to be able to do this, and that sitting in full lotus or in horse stance for many hours proves that one's energy channel are open. Could this also be a way to test kidney strength? If the kidneys are weak then the lactic acid buildup would cause one to collapse if in horse stance or to come out of lotus. Thus if the kidneys are not strong enough then that would indicate that they wouldn't be able to store much energy, assuming the kidneys energetically are responsible for energy storage. Also if you look at the funtion of the adrenal glands, namely carbohydrate metabolism...if the glucose isn't being metabolized, if you have adrenal fatique, you have no energy or chi. So assuming there some truth to the above, would not strengthening the kidneys/adrenals be a way not only to increase flexibility but to increase chi and chi storage capacity? In TCM the kidneys are always emphasized as the most important system and I"ve always wondered why. Could this be one of the reasons? I know when I started fasting and a fruit diet I could see the kidneys in my iris becoming stronger and noticed I could sit in full lotus for much longer and was generally much more flexible. However I found it funny that my right kidney was weaker than my left and the limbs on the right side of my body were less flexible than the left. What are your thoughts? -Astral EDIT: Also, could this have a link as to why ejaculation for males messes up our energy? Could it have to do with the kidney energy? Might it weaken the kidneys temporarily, thus hindering one's ability to store chi? Is that why celibacy or non-ejaculatory methods are necessary for certain training (MCO)? Edited February 1, 2012 by Astral_Anima 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) spleen filters lymph, not kidneys glucose metabolism partly relies on liver for glycogen processing (look up some of the storing functions of the liver) but the spleen is also a big transport mechanism with heavy sinew component. dont forget in tcm the spleen system basically contains the pancreas, big component there. adrenals are more the "jing" kidney yang Edited February 1, 2012 by joeblast Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted February 1, 2012 A word of caution when bringing up full lotus, a lot of people say its "useless" or "unnecessary" simply because they themselves cannot achieve the position. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chi 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 A word of caution when bringing up full lotus, a lot of people say its "useless" or "unnecessary" simply because they themselves cannot achieve the position. Chunyi Lin says that 20 minutes of full lotus is equal to 4 hours of any other type of meditation. haha 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mokona Posted February 1, 2012 I always thought "they" said that becuase sitting in a chair works just as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 1, 2012 Before this devolves too much more on the usefulness of FL - it is a tool, nothing more. A good tool. Absolutely necessary? Absolutely not. But if you can hack it, you just might get some true benefit. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Astral_Anima Posted February 2, 2012 spleen filters lymph, not kidneys glucose metabolism partly relies on liver for glycogen processing (look up some of the storing functions of the liver) but the spleen is also a big transport mechanism with heavy sinew component. dont forget in tcm the spleen system basically contains the pancreas, big component there. adrenals are more the "jing" kidney yang Wait the SPLEEN filters lymph??? so then the kidneys just eliminate the waste that the spleen filters? Or is there some other eliminative organ that gets rid of lymphatic sewage. I was under the assumption that it was the kidney and bowel's main job to eliminate waste, bowel being more digestive, kidney being more lymphatic? And yeah I know how important the spleen/pancreas is. I had some major digestive issues that were cleared up with an herbal formula for spleen/pancreas. Good stuff. -Astral Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Astral_Anima Posted February 2, 2012 Chunyi Lin says that 20 minutes of full lotus is equal to 4 hours of any other type of meditation. haha Drew, You've returned! haha, and with a new avatar. How many Yang bodies are you able to make now? -Astral Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted February 2, 2012 Before this devolves too much more on the usefulness of FL - it is a tool, nothing more. A good tool. Absolutely necessary? Absolutely not. But if you can hack it, you just might get some true benefit. What makes you the authority on how useful/useless the full lotus position is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted February 2, 2012 What makes you the authority on how useful/useless the full lotus position is? He can do it quite well, and has practiced many other things over the years. How about yourself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 2, 2012 What makes you the authority on how useful/useless the full lotus position is? absolutely nothing - take my words as you may Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 2, 2012 Wait the SPLEEN filters lymph??? so then the kidneys just eliminate the waste that the spleen filters? Or is there some other eliminative organ that gets rid of lymphatic sewage. I was under the assumption that it was the kidney and bowel's main job to eliminate waste, bowel being more digestive, kidney being more lymphatic? And yeah I know how important the spleen/pancreas is. I had some major digestive issues that were cleared up with an herbal formula for spleen/pancreas. Good stuff. -Astral your lymphatic system sorta responds as a whole at your lymph nodes in some sense, but yes the spleen filters the lymph that rises, amongst a few other important things. the "kidney's job" is to filter urea and some other waste from the blood, meter sodium/potassium/phosphorus, monitor erythropoetein (marrow stimulator), renin (blood pressure), calcitrol (bones...downstream)... I've had rotten gut before that I've treated well with lower spleen points, moxa works well 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted February 2, 2012 He can do it quite well, and has practiced many other things over the years. How about yourself? OK, I can do it quite well naturally and it's moot. "has practiced many things over the years." Neat. I guess dabbling in spirituality and yoga makes one an authority. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orb Posted February 2, 2012 Hey all, So I think I'm starting to see a "link" in meditation, energy and health. So i'm going to post some ideas and i'm just curious on people's thoughts. 1.) I've heard that the chakras all correlate with the endocrine glands. Has anyone heard about this? For example the throat chakra would be th thyroid, brow would be pituitary, heart - thymus, sacral - adrenals, etc etc. I strongly believe that the idea of chakras mostly relate to the endocrine system and the colors associated to them represent the vibration level of each of the glands and the correlation between them - kinda like the musical notes. The endocrine system is the source of all our internal states and different glands influence our states by injecting its chemical substances (or hormones) into our bloodstream in order to be carried to a specific target. Those substances are very powerful and very different from each other so one can get you angry another one can get you scared or sad or happy etc... (they also can be combined and get some amazing twists - for example a certain combination could make you very smart...) I believe that the old yogis knew this system in great detail and the great masters could control it mentally or with substances (i.e. hallucinogens) and that's how they would get the desired state - let's say bliss or compassion etc.... In time the understanding behind it kinda washed off and today we are just left with a vague and childish representation of the ancient science. All these flowerlike representation of the chakras that we see in ashrams and yoga studios - they are just diagrams that we lost their meaning. It's interesting that in our days if you follow certain yoga traditions you can still learn how to control those functions but without really understanding what are you doing. So the best thing that can happen to a hard working yogi could be smth like a "stupid saint" - you got the power and you can use it - but in reality you have no clue how it works.(one example would be the mantra practice for different chakras - the theory of vibration behind it is very hard to comprehend so you just repeat the mantra until if finally works Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted February 2, 2012 Neat. I guess dabbling in spirituality and yoga makes one an authority. That's funny coming from you... Typical, too... Anyway, the argument was sort of made that only people who can't get into full lotus say that it's not necessary. Joeblast disproved that idiotic assertion. Anything else you want to discuss? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted February 2, 2012 That's funny coming from you... Typical, too... Anyway, the argument was sort of made that only people who can't get into full lotus say that it's not necessary. Joeblast disproved that idiotic assertion. Anything else you want to discuss? If there is something you want to say please go ahead and do so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted February 2, 2012 Nah, I think what I said is pretty clear. Please ask if you have any questions, mantis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Astral_Anima Posted February 2, 2012 your lymphatic system sorta responds as a whole at your lymph nodes in some sense, but yes the spleen filters the lymph that rises, amongst a few other important things. the "kidney's job" is to filter urea and some other waste from the blood, meter sodium/potassium/phosphorus, monitor erythropoetein (marrow stimulator), renin (blood pressure), calcitrol (bones...downstream)... I've had rotten gut before that I've treated well with lower spleen points, moxa works well I read the link but it says the spleen acts a a lymph node and filters BLOOD. And I wiki'd it and it clearly stated... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph_node The spleen and tonsils are large lymphoid organs that serve similar functions to lymph nodes, though the spleen filters blood cells rather than lymph. So i'm afraid I'd have to disagree. How I understand it is that lypmh fluid carries cellular waste (namely acids) to the lymph nodes for storage, so the lymph nodes are kinda like spetic tanks and lypmh is the sewage. How I understand it is that the lymph is filtered out the kidneys, they when you pee you should see sediment in your urine or strands of mucus. Maybe I'm wrong but it makes sense in my mind. -Astral Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 2, 2012 you're splitting hairs, bro. lymph nodes are 'filter sites' and the concept of storage there is...I dont want to say misguided, since they're "immuno-sites," but that's why I referenced the spleen and lymph nodes as a whole - its more "process & transfer." they are "immuno-sites" because of what they receive from the spleen. but yeah you're right in some sense that the kidneys "filter lymph" - its practically the main medium of blood - my point was mainly that the kidneys are concerned with the blood as a whole whereas the spleen is the "root of process" for lymph. so in a sense that is why the spleen is sort of the "origin of blood" though the marrow is the origin of red blood cells. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 2, 2012 OK, I can do it quite well naturally and it's moot. "has practiced many things over the years." Neat. I guess dabbling in spirituality and yoga makes one an authority. firstly, I'm not here to argue...waste of energy...so please dont goad me I absolutely could not do it naturally - never even thought I'd be able to, even. I only started trying in perhaps 2008 and honestly I was pretty surprised at how my body responded to proper stretches for it and regularly half lotus-ing until full was ok. of course it matters not how many things I have practiced over the years funny choice of verbiage. nevertheless, my words always stand on their own and I dont claim to be any sort of authority, master, or what have you. just another practitioner that makes observations 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted February 2, 2012 firstly, I'm not here to argue...waste of energy...so please dont goad me I absolutely could not do it naturally - never even thought I'd be able to, even. I only started trying in perhaps 2008 and honestly I was pretty surprised at how my body responded to proper stretches for it and regularly half lotus-ing until full was ok. of course it matters not how many things I have practiced over the years funny choice of verbiage. nevertheless, my words always stand on their own and I dont claim to be any sort of authority, master, or what have you. just another practitioner that makes observations I understand that but you do realize your tonage comes off "as is." I may be wrong but I don't think anyone on this forum is fully qualified to speak with authority on these matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted February 2, 2012 well if you want to consider "authority" a 1 or a 0, then yes. but if you want to consider it in a "true analog" fashion then it doesnt get quite so crudely quantized, as a 1 would necessitate one being a veritable master in the regarded areas. it would get a little tiresome to preface each post with "in my experience" or "as I see things" or "I'm not an absolutely authority, but" orb I strongly believe that the idea of chakras mostly relate to the endocrine system and the colors associated to them represent the vibration level of each of the glands and the correlation between them - kinda like the musical notes. I agree, and funny enough, its backed up in a sense from my soloflex WBV - as you dial the vibrations differently, they do ascend in a fashion as you up the revs (although there is also a 3 dimensional component to the progression of vibration also) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth Ananda Posted February 2, 2012 I have said before, I love Full Lotus. Do I think it is necessary? No. Why? There are enlightened adepts from many traditions that Never sat in Full lotus. Does saying that make me an authority? No, but it does make me clear headed! That said, I think the benefits of full Lotus are so significant that it is definitely worth the effort to be able to be comfortable in the position. All it takes is loose hip flexors. All that takes is a few minutes of stretching each day. Whats the worst thing that could happen? That when you sit down to do your hip stretches, you may enjoy the process and end up doing a longer stretching session of the rest of your body as well!!! When I sit in lotus, my LDT becomes really hot, in maybe 5 seconds? And everything starts from there, the longer I sit... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted February 3, 2012 For a spiritual forum there appears to be quite a few bruised I's and egos over such simple comments. Cool stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suninmyeyes Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) This is just a health warning story for all full lotus enthusiasts.I was able to do full lotus since I first heard of it, probably somewhere around my first yoga classes when I was 10 years old. I meditated as and adult often in full lotus and did not find it strenous, on contrary it was very beneficial in many ways. One time I meditated during personal reterat for a long time ,feeling very blissfull but I was sitting little carless in full lotus not paying proper attention to abdomen just literally for few minutes ,than felt electric schock and loud click. My whole left side of the body collapsed , becouse the bones got disjointed in the lower hip . This caused so much problems/illness in many ways for years, together with my internal organs stopping to function normally. It was a NIGHTMARE , a pure hell, I wanted to die so many times. After that all energy from the cultivation disspeard and went into healing and had to build myself again from scratch. This was an unusual accident - but do be careful everyone, becouse this does happen. Full lotus is also IMO not necessary for ones spiritual development nor is the pointer of how spiritually evolved someone is. Edited February 3, 2012 by suninmyeyes 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
